Black Dahlia

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Does anybody else get the eerie feeling that we are looking at Elizabeth Short's killer?

http://www.bethshort.com/uniphoto.htm

― trappist monkey, Thursday, 7 April 2005 23:12 (twenty years ago)

that is eerie...can we t alk about the movie too

― anthony, Thursday, 7 April 2005 23:58 (twenty years ago)

Woah, there's two scheduled for this year, but I guess you mean the Ellroy/Scarlett Johannsen one right?

― trappist monkey, Friday, 8 April 2005 00:05 (twenty years ago)

and josh hartnett AND BRIAN DE PALMA

― anthony, Friday, 8 April 2005 00:18 (twenty years ago)

An LA detective put out a book recently where he surmises that it was his father (a wealthy dentist or doctor or something) was the murderer.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 8 April 2005 00:22 (twenty years ago)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060589957/qid=1112923364/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/002-2036872-4954447?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 8 April 2005 00:23 (twenty years ago)

Woah...weird...I am reading that book right now!

― does that make you want to touch yourself? (nordicskilla), Friday, 8 April 2005 03:23 (twenty years ago)

is it any good

― anthony, Friday, 8 April 2005 03:26 (twenty years ago)

As a memoir, it's excellent - George Hodel (the suspect and father to author LA cop Steve Hodel) is a fascinating guy who knew Betty Short and people like John Huston and lead an amazing life. I'll withold comment on its value as a piece of evidence until I've finished it, but Ellroy thinks it has some credibility.

― does that make you want to touch yourself? (nordicskilla), Friday, 8 April 2005 03:28 (twenty years ago)

i should pick it up then

― anthony, Friday, 8 April 2005 03:36 (twenty years ago)

one of the first things i remembered on television was a true crime reenactment of this murder, and remembering the shattering dissoance of a woman who was dead and beautiful...the whole thing was primal.

it took me years before i realised there was a movie

― anthony, Friday, 8 April 2005 03:42 (twenty years ago)

the pictures are still horrible

― does that make you want to touch yourself? (nordicskilla), Friday, 8 April 2005 03:43 (twenty years ago)

i thought the book was ridiculous. he offers literally NO EVIDENCE!!! the dude who was in james ellroy's feast of death was much more convincing.

i can't wait for the de palma black dahlia, though i'm disappointed that the ellroy-fichner collaboration on it never got completed (they were working on that back in 99 or so).

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Friday, 8 April 2005 03:46 (twenty years ago)

...it was you, wasn't it?

― does that make you want to touch yourself? (nordicskilla), Friday, 8 April 2005 03:55 (twenty years ago)

Reading about the Black Dahlia before bed is a bad choice.

― Jimmy Mod Knows You Eat Your Own Farts (ModJ), Friday, 8 April 2005 04:15 (twenty years ago)

I read the book that came out four or five years ago which Lynch endorsed at the time (had a one word title.) It was okay. It's an interesting case, but it's kind of gets wearying after a while (I imagine it must be how brits feel about Jack the Ripper.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 8 April 2005 15:58 (twenty years ago)

Reading about the Black Dahlia before bed is a bad choice.

OMG so true.

Anyway, I finished the Hodel book. It was compelling, but not quite compelling enough.

― European Samuel Glickstein (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 14:50 (twenty years ago)

What about Orson Welles?

― Eric von H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 15:13 (twenty years ago)

I've read lots about the Black Dahlia, and I think that a lot of what is written is outrageous bullshit. A lot of people are keeping it alive just to make money.

― Shatterproof Glass (dymaxia), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 15:18 (twenty years ago)

Orson Welles was Jack the Ripper, shurely?

― Masked Gazza, Wednesday, 20 April 2005 15:25 (twenty years ago)

I've read lots about the Black Dahlia too! LOTS!

― European Samuel Glickstein (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

Are you writing a script, Mr. Glickstein?

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 15:46 (twenty years ago)

He's getting his routine down.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 15:47 (twenty years ago)

I'm always "writing a script"! But not about this!

― European Samuel Glickstein (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 15:48 (twenty years ago)

I just read The Big Nowhere, another Ellroy book and a really good one at that.

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 16:48 (twenty years ago)

The site that's linked to in the first post on this thread -- it's really, really fascinating. Mind-blowing. The image one gets from the media's constant retellings of The Black Dahlia Story, it seems as though all of that is just a STORY, a work of fiction. I'm astonished to find out about Elizabeth Short's birth defect, about the seeming purity of her fantasies. I looked at the crime scene and morgue photos and saw not hideous gruesomeness but SADNESS. Sadness for the massive pain this poor young (YOUNG! She was three years younger than I am now when she was killed!) woman must've endured in her final hours here on Earth. I want to read more now, particularly John Gilmore's book. I want to find out more information.

This story reminds me of other unsolved crimes -- The Boy in the Box, "Sharon Marshall", the seemingly endless list of missing children, some missing for well over 60 years. All of these mysteries that haunt and caution, reminding us of how unsafe the world can be, has been, for as long as the world's been here, it seems.

Anyway. I wonder if that man in the photo linked to up on top is that limping man alluded to in the site. Or, if he isn't, who he is and whether he might be the key to solving this case.

― The Spirit of Sam Endicott (Dee the Lurker), Thursday, 21 April 2005 07:15 (twenty years ago)

...though now knowing who the Black Dahlia is might have improved In California by Lisa Marr... ...if that was at all possible...

― Jimmy Mod Knows You Eat Your Own Farts (ModJ), Thursday, 21 April 2005 09:12 (twenty years ago)

eight months pass...

http://mattzollerseitz.blogspot.com/2006/01/f-gorgeous_15.html

At a Court TV dinner, Ellroy said he’d seen three hours of unedited footage from “Dahlia,” a hardboiled thriller loosely based on the infamous 1947 murder case, and starring Scarlett Johansson, Hilary Swank, Aaron Eckhart and Josh Hartnett. While Ellroy wouldn’t hazard a guess as to how it would cut together, he described the footage as “…fucking gorgeous.”

Ellroy said DePalma wasn’t present when he watched the footage a few months back. “One of his people put me in a screening room and showed what they had. The compositions are amazing. I’ve seen enough cop movie squadroom scenes to think I’d never see another scene set in one that didn’t bore me, but the way De Palma shoots a squadroom, it’s like you’re seeing it for the first time…The clarity of the images is unreal.”...

“It’s a reduced version of my book, but a very cohesive one,” Ellroy said. “It’s the first person narration of the young officer who eventually solves the case, the Hartnett character.”

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:44 (twenty years ago)

I hate Josh Hartnett and I don't trust De Palma, but I'm excited to see it.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Thursday, 19 January 2006 20:25 (twenty years ago)

de palma is awesome precisely because he can't be trusted!!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 19 January 2006 22:55 (twenty years ago)

I suppose!

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Thursday, 19 January 2006 22:55 (twenty years ago)

josh hartnett was good in sin city

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 January 2006 22:56 (twenty years ago)

I wonder if he drives a hummer

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 January 2006 22:56 (twenty years ago)

not very good

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Thursday, 19 January 2006 22:56 (twenty years ago)

I can't remember

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 January 2006 22:58 (twenty years ago)

I am very excited about this.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 20 January 2006 00:52 (twenty years ago)

I'm... wary. the quality of the actors doesn't bode well, and De Palma is mostly a hack well past his prime. But LA Confidential was much better than it had any right to be (pointless blonde bimbo subplot aside).

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 20 January 2006 00:58 (twenty years ago)

Hilary Swank = blech.
Josh Hartnett = okay with the right haircut
Scarlett Johannsen = Laura Prepon for film geeks
Aaron Eckhart = isn't he the evil bastard in "In the Company of Men" and "Nurse Betty"? He's good.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 20 January 2006 01:01 (twenty years ago)

Eh the ending of LA Confidential is what kills it. And the Kim Bassinger subplot is in the book (which I had actually thought was unfilmable.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 20 January 2006 01:02 (twenty years ago)

I know its in the book, I've read all of Ellroy's stuff. But in the movie it just slows things down for no apparent reason... and I forget how it ends, Exley shoots Dudley in the back and gets away with it, right? Which I agree sorta ruins things... there's a number of small details that bothered me in the film, but I remember there being a lot of Oscar banter for Basinger which annoyed me cuz she basically does nothing the entire film besides look cute.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 20 January 2006 01:05 (twenty years ago)

ellroy originally worked on the script for dahlia with david fincher, which must've ended up extraordinarily dark. i cannot wait for this movie.

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Friday, 20 January 2006 01:16 (twenty years ago)

Yeah but it slowed things down in the book too (along with another HUGE subplot which got dropped from the film for time reasons I assume--Elroy's novels aren't exactly tight.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 20 January 2006 01:22 (twenty years ago)

I CANNOT WAIT FOR THIS

― Zwan (miccio), Friday, 20 January 2006 01:24 (twenty years ago)

the HUGE subplot (the exley subplot, i'm guessing) is something that works in a book, but in a film would be the nuttiest thing ever.

― gear (gear), Friday, 20 January 2006 01:26 (twenty years ago)

femme fatale proves de palma is not past his prime. his most boring films came out 10-15 years ago.

― gear (gear), Friday, 20 January 2006 01:27 (twenty years ago)

la confidential fucking sucks

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 20 January 2006 04:43 (twenty years ago)

i'll take anything, anything by de palma over that piece of shit. wiseguys. raising cain.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 20 January 2006 04:45 (twenty years ago)

Scarlett Johannsen = Laura Prepon for film geeks

spot on!!!

― stockholm cindy (winter version) (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 20 January 2006 05:18 (twenty years ago)

la confidential fucking sucks
-- s1ocki (slytus...), January 20th, 2006.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i'll take anything, anything by de palma over that piece of shit. wiseguys. raising cain.
-- s1ocki (slytus...), January 20th, 2006.

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/coverv/34/177834.jpg

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 20 January 2006 09:29 (twenty years ago)

Elroy claims Hartnett is a revelation in it. I've seen just 8 of De Palma's films (mostly skipped the Hitchcock variations), but Femme Fatale was quite splendid.

I remember there was a Black Dahlia TV film in the '70s starring Lucie Arnaz!

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 January 2006 14:14 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 126 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

This has to be DePalma's worst movie

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 19:24 (nineteen years ago)

no way was this worse than Blowout!!

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 19:26 (nineteen years ago)

If this isn't De Palma's worst movie, I don't want to see his worst.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 19:29 (nineteen years ago)

Blow Out is awesome.

― milo z (mlp), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 19:36 (nineteen years ago)

two months pass...

i really liked this, well shot, well acted, good solid, almost baroqe noir, i didnt get the hate

― pinkmoose (jacklove), Sunday, 7 January 2007 23:16 (nineteen years ago)

if you thought it was well acted, then you wouldn't

― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 7 January 2007 23:20 (nineteen years ago)

I probably would have liked the movie ten times more if Mia Kirshner played Hilary Swank's role too.

― Zwan (miccio), Sunday, 7 January 2007 23:22 (nineteen years ago)

jennifer connelly makes for a good mia kirshner doppelganger.

― ‘•’u (gear), Sunday, 7 January 2007 23:26 (nineteen years ago)

Seems like Connelly is a foot taller, though.

― milo z (mlp), Sunday, 7 January 2007 23:31 (nineteen years ago)

"she looks just like that dead girl!" = "she is also 5'4" tall!"

― ‘•’u (gear), Sunday, 7 January 2007 23:53 (nineteen years ago)

connelly would have been hotter at least (but then, who wouldn't)

― Zwan (miccio), Monday, 8 January 2007 01:11 (nineteen years ago)

I still haven't seen this, but I don't understand how Hilary Swank is supposed to look like ANYBODY. Name one other actress she looks like.

― Marmot (marmotwolof), Monday, 8 January 2007 01:18 (nineteen years ago)

matt damon

― ‘•’u (gear), Monday, 8 January 2007 01:22 (nineteen years ago)

exactly

― Marmot (marmotwolof), Monday, 8 January 2007 01:26 (nineteen years ago)

so fucking terrible. partly redeemed by the big reveal ending and the mia kirshner sex scenes, but not quite

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 8 January 2007 01:46 (nineteen years ago)

The saddest thing about my disappointment with this film is that I still expect it to be way better than Capone Rising.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 8 January 2007 06:29 (nineteen years ago)

is that the untouchables preek*? untouchables rules.

*made-up "variety" slang

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 8 January 2007 06:30 (nineteen years ago)

i had another thot or two

1) de palma works better when he doesnt have a studio fucking his shit up, and this thing had like 13 people as producers (!?)
2) i was really looking forward to how this could have been a hyped up, trashed up, rococo genre peice like femme fatale or snake eyes, and there was potential.
3) it still had two or three fantastic shots/scenes, and half a dozen good ones.
4) i mourn for its potential.

― pinkmoose (jacklove), Monday, 8 January 2007 07:46 (nineteen years ago)

untouchables rules.

It does if you don't much like De Palma.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 8 January 2007 07:50 (nineteen years ago)

that doesn't make sense.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 8 January 2007 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

it's atypical de palma (if you prioritize certain aspects of de palma).

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Monday, 8 January 2007 13:56 (nineteen years ago)

uh not really (although i guess it depends what you're "prioritizing")

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 8 January 2007 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

if you prioritize the "remaking hitchcock" aspect of de palma, is it no atypical? with 'scarface' it's my fave of his.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Monday, 8 January 2007 14:19 (nineteen years ago)

i guess if you have a really really narrow view of what depalma should and shouldn't do, sure

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 8 January 2007 14:25 (nineteen years ago)

Seems like Connelly is a foot taller, though.

uh, but at least she LOOKS like her. i mean, ffs, swank looked NOTHING like her.

such a horrible horrible movie.

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Monday, 8 January 2007 14:26 (nineteen years ago)

One thing I felt DePalma accomplished in the movie was that every time someone got shot, it was loud, ugly, an event. The audience always jumped back a bit. If someone revealed he had little to do with the major casting (like Mission To Mars (yech), he took this project over for another director) I'd be a lot happier.

― Zwan (miccio), Monday, 8 January 2007 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

there were two shootings too few in this movie

― ‘•’u (gear), Monday, 8 January 2007 18:40 (nineteen years ago)

Liking Untouchables/Scarface more than Body Double/Dressed to Kill = DUD!

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 8 January 2007 18:50 (nineteen years ago)

can i like all of them

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 8 January 2007 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

no, you dud

― cousin larry bundgee (bundgee), Monday, 8 January 2007 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

can i like all of them

Fine with me. I "like" them all as well, even this one.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 8 January 2007 19:10 (nineteen years ago)

even The Wedding Party, Mission to Mars and Snake Eyes

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 8 January 2007 19:11 (nineteen years ago)

Mission to Mars, really? I still feel slightly traumatized just thinking about it.

― N.i.c.o.l.e (Ex Leon), Monday, 8 January 2007 19:16 (nineteen years ago)

BEYOND the pale, Eric, to mention Mission to Mars.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 8 January 2007 19:18 (nineteen years ago)

mission to mars has some good shit in it!! weightless morricone organ scene!!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 8 January 2007 19:29 (nineteen years ago)

Fine with me. I "like" them all as well, even this one.

-- Eric H. (ephende...), January 8th, 2007 7:10 PM. (Eric H.) (later)

why did you put like in quotes?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 8 January 2007 19:30 (nineteen years ago)

weightless morricone organ scene!!

Okay, I did like the morricone. And Tim Robbins exploding.

― N.i.c.o.l.e (Ex Leon), Monday, 8 January 2007 21:56 (nineteen years ago)

My mom was on an airplane once where they showed Mission To Mars. There was a man sitting in front of her who only spoke Russian and laughed his head off through the whole movie.

― Zwan (miccio), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 00:03 (nineteen years ago)

I don't understand how Hilary Swank is supposed to look like ANYBODY. Name one other actress she looks like.

http://www.cinematk.tv/docs/ficheros/200410270003_91_4_2.jpg

― Frogm@n Henry (Frogm@n Henry), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 05:03 (nineteen years ago)

Okay, I did like the morricone

Even if it was Morricone ripping off his own score to The Thing.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 05:56 (nineteen years ago)

why did you put like in quotes?

I don't know. Do you like every De Palma movie for real? I was probably lying a little when I wrote that, because I'm more mixed on The Untouchables than actually liking it.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 06:04 (nineteen years ago)

no of course not!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 06:27 (nineteen years ago)

Then we're back to where we started from; me hating his two dick flicks.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 07:24 (nineteen years ago)

But liking at least one or two of the others.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 07:26 (nineteen years ago)

five years pass...

Dreary--even Vilmos Zsigmond gets uglified. Also found it incomprehensible, but I haven't read the book, and didn't care enough to double-back whenever I missed something.

― clemenza, Thursday, 15 November 2012 03:57 (thirteen years ago)

SHE LOOKS LIKE THAT DEAD GIRL!

― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 November 2012 04:14 (thirteen years ago)

six years pass...

Did anyone watch "I Am the Night"?

I have not, but I've been listening to the accompanying podcast "Root of Evil," about the Hodels.

I've never known quite what to make of the George Hodel theory (and find the idea that he was the Zodiac completely ridiculous) but the Man Ray / Surrealism connection does seem to gesture towards an answer that bothers me even more than Who -- which is Why?

― ryan, Thursday, 7 March 2019 17:29 (seven years ago)

just read about that. I totally missed this series but I'll try to catch it. Intriguing.

― akm, Thursday, 7 March 2019 18:55 (seven years ago)

I watched it, it was good enough for me to stick with it but I wouldn't call it "good."

― nickn, Thursday, 7 March 2019 22:27 (seven years ago)

three months pass...

watching again and its great fun

― godfellaz (darraghmac), Sunday, 30 June 2019 21:18 (six years ago)

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