US drinking age - should it be lowered? I think so!

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http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/13/national/13drink.html?

Vermont Considers Lowering Drinking Age to 18
By PAM BELLUCK

Published: April 13, 2005

MONTPELIER, Vt., April 7 - Last fall, Richard C. Marron, a Republican state representative, was reading a newspaper column by the recently retired president of Middlebury College, John M. McCardell Jr.

One of Mr. McCardell's targets was the drinking age, which in Vermont, and every other state, is 21.

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"The 21-year-old drinking age is bad social policy and terrible law," Mr. McCardell wrote, saying it had led to binge drinking by teenagers. "Our latter-day prohibitionists have driven drinking behind closed doors and underground."

Mr. Marron, a four-term legislator who is vice chairman of the appropriations committee, decided that the law needed changing, and he has introduced a bill to lower the drinking age to 18, setting off a debate about public safety, age discrimination and the rights of young people as well as whether it is possible to teach teenagers to drink responsibly.

"Now we have a legal age of 18 to do everything else, but you can't drink until you're 21," Mr. Marron said. "I'm not pushing it to the level of it being unconstitutional, but I do think it's a form of age discrimination. If we did something else, like said you couldn't use a public campsite until you're 21, we would have an equal-protection-of-laws issue."

Mr. Marron's bill is unlikely to pass, mainly because if it did, Vermont would lose $9.7 million in federal money for highway maintenance, grants available only if a state sets its drinking age at 21. And the state's public safety commissioner and health department, along with several legislators, argue that lowering the drinking age would simply worsen the problem of under-age drinking and drunken driving.

Still, 17 lawmakers have signed on as co-sponsors, and other legislators said they might be willing to consider such a bill if not for the loss of federal money. Even Gov. Jim Douglas, a Republican, might see some logic in the proposal if the federal highway money was not involved, said his spokesman, Jason Gibbs.

"Philosophically, it's difficult to reconcile the notion that you can enlist in the military, serve your country, go to war, but not go into your local pub and get a draft beer," Mr. Gibbs said.

While state health officials say that "a higher drinking age is safer," he added, the possibility that a lower drinking age could stem binge drinking is "certainly one that needs to be looked at very closely."

Mr. Marron, who says his ownership of a resort with a liquor license in Stowe, Vt., has no bearing on his support of the bill, said some teenagers drove to Canada, where the drinking age is 18.

States across the country raised the drinking age to 21 after the 1984 National Drinking Age Act tied that requirement to a percentage of federal highway money given to states.

In recent years, few legislative proposals have emerged to lower the drinking age, said Jonathan Adkins, a spokesman for the Governors Highway Safety Association, which, like Mothers Against Drunk Driving, strongly opposes such efforts. Vermont is simultaneously considering a bill to raise the cigarette-smoking age to 21, from 18.

Mr. Gibbs said the governor opposed the bill on smoking because 18 was the age of "pre-eminent personal responsibility."

The American Cancer Society has generally withheld support for such proposals, saying that there was not a lot of data on their effectiveness and that adoption might make cigarettes more of a forbidden fruit A survey of Vermont voters conducted by a state senator last month, before debate or hearings on the proposals, showed some support for lowering the drinking age (33 percent), but more for raising the smoking age (51 percent).

The forbidden-fruit argument is also made by advocates for lowering the drinking age.

"Before the age was increased, we had a very different environment," said Ronald D. Liebowitz, the current president of Middlebury College. "You had kids drinking beer and getting sick on beer, but you didn't have gross alcohol poisoning and binge drinking."

Mr. Liebowitz said many students "go off campus to private homes to drink and then, because this is a rural environment, they have to drive home."

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Alex Koroknay-Palicz, 23, the executive director of the National Youth Rights Association in Washington, has been campaigning for the bill on Vermont college campuses, saying it is a matter of civil rights and safety for teenagers.

"Instead of doing it in a controlled situation, going to a bar with a drink limit or something, they're doing it at keg parties in places that are harder to control," Mr. Koroknay-Palicz said.

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Statistics from the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration show that the number of drunken drivers under age 21 involved in fatal crashes decreased by 61 percent from 1982 to 1998. The agency also estimates that 22,798 lives were saved from 1975 to 2003 by higher-drinking-age laws.

And in Vermont, Kerry Sleeper, the public safety commissioner, said all fatal crashes involving alcohol dropped to 25 in 2002, from 50 in 1986, the year the drinking age was raised.

Mr. Sleeper and other opponents of the new bill acknowledge that it is not clear if the decrease in crashes can be attributed to the higher drinking age or to stepped-up enforcement, education and measures like lowering the illegal blood alcohol level to 0.08. But they say the higher age has helped.

Barbara Cimaglio, Vermont's deputy commissioner for alcohol and drug abuse programs, said brain research showed that 18-year-olds were not as responsible as 21-year-olds. Because many 18-year-olds are still in high school, Ms. Cimaglio said, lowering the age would make alcohol more available to 15- , 16- and 17-year-olds.

Representative Loren T. Shaw, Republican of Derby, bases his opposition on personal experience. "I started drinking when I was 15," said Mr. Shaw, 63, who said he stopped at 25. "All I cared about was booze, stock cars and women. I lost a lot of friends due to drunken driving."

Many legislators probably share the view of Representative Thomas S. DePoy, Republican of Rutland.

"I don't really know if the age is relevant," Mr. DePoy said. "I think it's just going to boil down to the mere fact that this state needs the transportation funds."

Katie Zezima contributed reporting from Boston for this article.

Maria :D (Maria D.), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 17:19 (twenty years ago)

vermont should lower its drinking age. there's nothing else to do there!

jody the country girl doll (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 17:20 (twenty years ago)

My experience living in the Netherlands, where the drinking age is 16, is that there was less of a generation gap between teens and their parents. Here, teenagers have to live a secret life. Often, the only place to drink is in their cars. I think reversing the drinking age and driving age would make sense. If I had a 17-year-old, I'd probably be the mom who lets the other kids drink in her rec room (but making sure there are sober drivers to take them home or plenty of sleepover possibilities). In today's climate, there's the risk of getting busted and having your photo in the paper as a corrupter of youth if you tolerate underage drinking. Back in the 80s, I had a couple of high school teachers who were "cool" and gave us wine after speech meets or theater practice. Is that so wrong?

Maria :D (Maria D.), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 17:23 (twenty years ago)

Most bars in Mexico (south of Rosarita!) have a loose height requirement: basically, to get in you have be at least a certain height. Kids in Mexico can get alcohol readily, but it's rare to see drunk kids (though I have seen it). I think there's less mystery and taboo, or there's other cultural reasons, but it's rare.

andy --, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 17:39 (twenty years ago)

I do think that the taboo of underage drinking in general instills a potentially harmful attitude toward the experience. I remember getting to college and there being lots of kids who were like FUCK YEAH I'M GOING TO GET DRUNK AND WASTED because they could, for the first time in their lives, do it out of their parents' eyes. I'm totally in favor of lowering the age to 18, but I think there's a bigger cultural issue here, too -- even though most people I know did start drinking in college, there was always the question of, is this something you mention to your parents when you go home? In Europe the integration of alchohol into all facets of social life just seems a lot healthier.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 17:45 (twenty years ago)

I don't know - I saw a TV special on underage drinking in Reykjavik and these teens were WASTED on this basement homebrew. It's an epidemic of super-hot blonde girls in viking sweaters passed out in public parks.

andy --, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 17:50 (twenty years ago)

What! I think I may need to go to Iceland to study the Eddas local fauna.

M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 17:52 (twenty years ago)

I was just out of high school in 1984 when the federal government linked highway funding to drinking age. I was "grandfathered" in many states because I turned 18 right before they raised the age. On several occasions, I went on crazy drives with my younger friends to cross the state line into a state where I could buy (from CT to NY, and from MA to VT).

I think there is some truth to the argument that lowering the age to 18 would make it much easier for 15-, 16- and 17-year-olds to get alcohol. But don't they manage somehow anyway?

Isn't alcohol a part of many kids' social life by the time they are 16 anyway?

Maria :D (Maria D.), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 17:52 (twenty years ago)

Iceland has a special relationship to alcohol.

Maria :D (Maria D.), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 17:53 (twenty years ago)

There was a scandal a couple years ago when some British tour company was advertising "Get Laid In Iceland" to UK lads. Basically, fly in on a friday, date-rape a passed-out girl on a Sat, and be back to work by Monday. Some mother's group finally put a stop to it.

andy --, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

Fine, as long as you up the driving age to 21.

The Sensational Sulk (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:14 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, it's weird, Maria, I actually never drank until I was 20 and even then it was very little until I graduated from college. But part of the reason I didn't drink is that I just hated the whole frat-boy, bacchanalian, keg-party mentality of college drinking, and I wasn't really provided with many alternatives to that.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:15 (twenty years ago)

Unfortunately alcohol and a lot of other drugs apparently have worse effects on the brains of teens and young-mid 20somethings. This is one of the worst times for them to be bingeing. (I admit that I did it to some extent.) I think maybe if the U.S. had a healthier, less binge-oriented, overall drinking culture it would make more sense.

RS, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

Iceland and the Scandanavian countries generally have prohibitively high tax rates on liquor, don't they? Like age restrictions, this places exogenous restraints on the economic and cultural norms that should exist around the use of any product. This makes homebrew economically feasible although dangerous.

Alcohol is far more integrated into all aspects of life in Europe in contrast with the U.S. But, tellingly, so is public transportation. Every 16 y.o. in Germany or France doesn't have his own car.

Makes a difference.

Drinking and driving, while common obv. in the U.S. esp. among teens, deserves to be demonized.

SeesItBothWays, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:20 (twenty years ago)

The Peruvian chews the coca leaf.

The Mexican laborer sips the pulque.

The Burmese farmer smokes the opium.

But we're AMERICANS, so we get blasted on toot, tequila, and smack. YEAH!

andy --, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

toot, tequila, and smack

Is that a Rev. Horton Heat song?

M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:23 (twenty years ago)

If I were 18 years old, I'd be for it - but looking at the statistics, it's hard to argue for a lower drinking age.

One of the arguments people use is that in other countries, people start drinking at a much younger age and binge drinking is not such a problem. But in other countries, people don't have as much of a car culture. So that argument doesn't necessarily work here.

However, drinking in college is probably the safest place to get the binging out of your system... So maybe allowing drinking for 18-21 in a captive environment could work. (e.g. electrified barbed wire.)


xxxpost

dave225 (Dave225), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

Before the change in the 80's, didn't certain states sell low-alchol 3.2 beer to 18 year olds? I thought Minnesota did something like that. That seems like a compromise, but a logistical nightmare for beer distributors and bar-owners.

andy --, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:34 (twenty years ago)

I don't know - I saw a TV special on underage drinking in Reykjavik and these teens were WASTED on this basement homebrew. It's an epidemic of super-hot blonde girls in viking sweaters passed out in public parks.

Andy, beer wasn't even legal in Iceland until 1989. It only fortifies the original point, actually.

donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:34 (twenty years ago)

Doesn't 3.2 beer just mean that distributors end up selling more beer until the amount of alchohol consumed is equal?

dave225 (Dave225), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:37 (twenty years ago)

They were drinking this bathtub vodka sort of shit, made in basements... apparently kids get poisoned all the time by impurities.

NO BEER??!! That must have been some pious Danish holdover, to keep the savages from quarreling.

andy --, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

Iceland may be progressive in many ways, but it's had the same conservative/right-wing party running the country since it officially became a country. I'm not sure what the drinking ages are Iceland, if there are any, but I think there are other factors involved in Icelandic twins getting poisoned on mass booze consumption, more likely to do with the isolation, fragile economy, and perhaps the extreme NORTHitude.

donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:43 (twenty years ago)

big navy base there too!

j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:48 (twenty years ago)

the extreme NORTHitude

http://www.columbus.com.lb/columbus/lib/north.jpg

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

I blame Bjork.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

You blame her for everything. She was right to attack you at that airport, IMO.

M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)

Bjork has dissed beer in print : "I don't understand it. It's like drinking wood."

donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)

http://hiddentrails.com/europe/iceland/images/iceland-2girls.jpg

"Vala... just give me the... keys... I'm fine, really..."

andy --, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:58 (twenty years ago)

"Drinking wood"

M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:58 (twenty years ago)

"Your search - iceland drunk girls - did not match any documents."

andy --, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,160 for keflavik hos.

j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:02 (twenty years ago)

http://www.icelandicfilmcompany.com/Icelandic%20Dream/images/Idstill6_jpg.jpg

This looks promising, they look sort of toasted. One of them doesn't look so teutonic, though - are there immigrants in Reykjavik? Or eskimos or something?

andy --, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:06 (twenty years ago)

Is there any country (where drinking alcohol is legal) with a higher minimum age than 21? In fact, is there anywhere else in the world where it's as high as 21?

The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

Saudi Arabia.

You're not allowed to drink at all, even if you're dead.

donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:56 (twenty years ago)

(Ah, sorry, missed your parenthetical.)

donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

Fuck that, I want to make CORPSES DRINK.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

Jello Biafra once said something about being able to be mayor of San Francisco at age 18, but you can't drive a taxi cab until you are 26. (It was part of one of his spoken word albums, then they became lyrics to some Jello + NoMeansNo song)

donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:00 (twenty years ago)

Didn't Wisconsin used to have drinking age of 18, but they changed to 21 because too many kids from Chicago were coming up to get drunk and then smashing themselves all over I-94 driving home?

jocelyn (Jocelyn), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

drinking in college is fun, but i have an issue with the idea that it should be done for the sake of the health of people who are desperate enough to drink ten shots in quick sequence in their rooms before leaving for a party and then end up getting sick. why should you change the law, which should be more of a recognition of adult responsibility, because people are being horribly irresponsible?

Maria (Maria), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

In Europe the integration of alchohol into all facets of social life just seems a lot healthier.

I lived in Italy for three years, where there is NO minimum age for drinking alchohol. Also, the bars seem to be able to close whenever they want. One night I'd been in a bar for a while and was staggered to find it was 5am. Despite this no one in Italy gets drunk. In fact large numbers of people go to bars and don't drink at all, or they get one small beer and make it last the whole evening.

In Britain the legal age is 18 and most pubs have to stop serving at 11pm (although there are loads of places in London open later, and the law has just changed on this). However, I would guess that at least 90% of teenagers drink regularly and get drunk before they are 18, and alcohol is integrated into the British way of life inasmuch as we get ridiculously pissed all the time.

I'm not sure if this proves anything.

The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

Thing is though.. while the drinking age in Canada may be under 21, purchasing liquor in most provinces is a fucking pain in the ass.

For example, In B.C., you can only buy alcohol -- anything, beer, wine, vodka, mud slide mix, absinthe, etc. -- in provincial liquor stores, and none of them will stay open past 9pm. And I think 9pm is only for Friday nights. (Of course, bars have license to serve alcohol past that, but those are bars.) They are closed on Sundays. Now that's British Columbia. Other provinces may be more lenient or not.

Point being: liquor purchase times, even in the most baptist counties in the southern states (or the Northwest, haha), are more relaxed than Canadian liquor purchase times, generally speaking.

Washington is about to make a BIG step soon. We will soon be able to purchase hard liquor on *gasp* Sundays! "AW LOOK AT THE WITTLE STATE TRY TO WALK, OH KOOCHY KOO!"

My point being: countries with lenient drinking ages usually have stringent alcohol purchase times, or if they don't, the country isn't riddled with potential alcohol-induced disasters waiting to happen. The U.S. and Canada are far more car countries than the rest of the Western countries.. hence.

(My cousin in Victoria talks about how drunk driving is quasi legal in the northern parts of Vancouver Island because many small towns on the island have no police! People in bars just openly talk about driving drunk -- proudly)

donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:18 (twenty years ago)

I drank legally at 18 in my college years (ah, the Sixties cultural legacy).

It should be 18, and the DRIVING age should be raised to 20.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

um, this - Despite this no one in Italy gets drunk. - is laughable. there might not be the tradition of binge drinking as right of passage but motherfuckers definitely get drunk.

j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

motherfuckers definitely get drunk

nothing remotely like on the scale of in England, either in terms of how drunk (people just don't drink so much in one go) or in terms of how many people - I met plenty of middle-aged people who had never been drunk in their lives. There is no word in Italian for 'hangover', because the concept doesn't exist.

The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:33 (twenty years ago)

that's rite

crosspost

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:37 (twenty years ago)

it should totally be lowered to 18. but now that i am long past 21, i of course don't really care

mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:40 (twenty years ago)

Drinking by 18, and 24 hour bottle-shops, motherfukkas!

I love Australia. Nation of pissheads. Seriously, its a bit of a problem here.

Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:15 (twenty years ago)

I'm 18 and even if the drinking age were lowered I still wouldn't drink. I'm such a prude sometimes...

Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:19 (twenty years ago)

"All I cared about was booze, stock cars and women."

The kids will not be allowed to repeat his mistakes!

Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:20 (twenty years ago)

It amazes me that the tying of federal highway funds to states' drinking laws has not been found unconstitutional in the past twenty years. Surely this is one area which clearly is a blackmailing in violation of both implicit principles of federalism and the 10th Amendment?

Anyway, according to Wikipedia, Italy's minimum drinking age is 16, although clearly a lack of enforcement may affect things on the ground...

Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 14 April 2005 00:29 (twenty years ago)

Before the change in the 80's, didn't certain states sell low-alchol 3.2 beer to 18 year olds?

Before the Feds used highway funds to coerce the states into a uniform drinking age of 21, it was a state-by-state thing. I seem to remember a few years ago Louisiana making noises about lowering the drinking age to 18. (Tourism concerns? How could you say such a thing!)

j.lu (j.lu), Thursday, 14 April 2005 01:48 (twenty years ago)

I consider it blackmail by the Feds, too. Even if I were a teetotaler, I'd consider it a violation of states' rights. They're doing the same thing now with the lowering of the Blood Alcohol Content level. Most states are going down from .10 to .08 out of fear of losing highway funds. Who nows what will be the next item on the Fed's agenda.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 14 April 2005 03:06 (twenty years ago)

It should be lowered so I can meet 18 year old girls in bars.

shookout (shookout), Thursday, 14 April 2005 03:59 (twenty years ago)

EXACTLY

Open your eyes; you can fly! (ex machina), Thursday, 14 April 2005 04:11 (twenty years ago)

I think it's always a good idea to separate the legal drinking and full-licence driving ages. Here both are legal at 18, and I keep hearing about people who get pissed and have a smash on the roads because they're not yet good enough at driving [despite not being allowed to drive with any alcohol until you're 21 or've had a full licence for three years].

Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 14 April 2005 04:15 (twenty years ago)

Again this is all assuming people follow the laws to begin with. Few people would dare to drive a car unless licensed to do so, but most of us were out drinking way before turning 18.

Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 14 April 2005 04:16 (twenty years ago)

When I was a teenager plenty of us drove before getting a license, starting around age 14, especially the ones who looked older.

shookout (shookout), Thursday, 14 April 2005 04:33 (twenty years ago)

new york now requires people who get permits at 16 to have permits for six months before getting licensed. it drives the people who have been driving since fourteen insane.

Maria (Maria), Thursday, 14 April 2005 04:52 (twenty years ago)

One thing that I realized if different between the US and the UK is that in the US its illegal to drink before your 21, full stop. I assume that this is why parent can be prosecuted for lettign their children drink in the house. In the UK, where the age is 18, what is illegal is BUYING alchohol before you're 18, not actually drinking it. That means you can;t drink it in pubs or buy it in shops, but you can drink it as home.

Robin Goad (rgoad), Thursday, 14 April 2005 08:49 (twenty years ago)

Even if I were a teetotaler, I'd consider it a violation of states' rights.
I definitely do.

Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:14 (twenty years ago)

hey if the drinking age is lowered you guys in the US may even learn to hold a drink down finally!!!!!!!!!! :D

(i'm kidding guys!! ;))

ken c (ken c), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:50 (twenty years ago)

. I'm totally in favor of lowering the age to 18, but I think there's a bigger cultural issue here, too -- even though most people I know did start drinking in college, there was always the question of, is this something you mention to your parents when you go home? In Europe the integration of alchohol into all facets of social life just seems a lot healthier.

do 18 yr old kids in Europe really go home in the morning to tell their mum "cor mum i got fucking wasted last night man! it was immense!"
?>??!?

ken c (ken c), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:52 (twenty years ago)

"seriously! i was ratarsed! i chucked up like a bulimic in a buffet!"

ken c (ken c), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:54 (twenty years ago)

I think there is some truth to the argument that lowering the age to 18 would make it much easier for 15-, 16- and 17-year-olds to get alcohol. But don't they manage somehow anyway?

Welcome to the UK! 15 is the de facto drinking age here, unless there have ben a lot of crackdowns since I was a teenager. I got carded 4 times before my 18th birthday; I must have bought booze over 100 times.

There is no word in Italian for 'hangover'

"Ho alzato troppo il gomito" is a recognised phrase ("I raised my elbow too much"). It sounds a bit old-fashioned, though.

Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:39 (twenty years ago)

mamma mia!

ken c (ken c), Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:40 (twenty years ago)

la mia testa sta danneggiando come le natiche del john del elton

ken c (ken c), Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:42 (twenty years ago)

In Paris, the only people you ever see being drunk and obnoxious in the streets are British tourists.

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:50 (twenty years ago)

the only drunk person I met in Rome was a Frenchman!

teeny (teeny), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:13 (twenty years ago)

no teeny, he was polish.

ken c (ken c), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:19 (twenty years ago)

do 18 yr old kids in Europe really go home in the morning to tell their mum "cor mum i got fucking wasted last night man! it was immense!"
?>??!?

If they're anything like my daughter, who's been amusing me with tales of drink-fuelled shennanigans in the clubs and bars of Leeds since she was 14, then yes.

Mind you, by the time she hit 18 it was all a bit been-there-done-that and a quiet evening doing her cross-stitch became more appealing.

chris j (chris j), Thursday, 14 April 2005 22:43 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...
im from australia and i think that all ur contries are wise in not lowering the age limit... cause if ppl are already drinking at a young age then it would encourage younger ppl to try it and i think its not very attractive seeing 13- 14 yr olds getting pissed it just makes me sick i hate it...

Allyce Griffiths, Thursday, 20 April 2006 08:23 (nineteen years ago)

in the US its illegal to drink before your 21, full stop.

Wow! I'm speechless, you guys are even more fucked-up than I thought!

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 20 April 2006 10:47 (nineteen years ago)

i thought allyce didn't want to raise the drinking age.

dog latin (dog latin), Thursday, 20 April 2006 10:48 (nineteen years ago)

lol i dnt i just had to read it and wanted to sound smart lol im always gettin called blonde and u wouldnt have known that if i didnt tell u so i al stupid but yeah u thought it sounded smart lol ha ha

????, Thursday, 20 April 2006 10:52 (nineteen years ago)

uh, i guessed you were blonde from your email.

dog latin (dog latin), Thursday, 20 April 2006 10:54 (nineteen years ago)


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