U.S. House of Reps Votes to Cut Off Estate Taxes (Again)

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oh great, this will surely help things:
House Votes to End Federal Estate Taxes

30 minutes ago

By MARY DALRYMPLE, AP Tax Writer

WASHINGTON - The House voted Wednesday to eliminate federal estate taxes in 2010 and beyond, a repeal that Republicans hailed but many Democrats said would reward the richest families at the steep cost of deeper federal deficits.


AP Photo

House lawmakers voted 272-162 to prevent the tax on inherited estates from reappearing after its one-year disappearance in 2010. The bill would end the tax at a cost of roughly $290 billion over the next decade.


The House has passed bills repealing the tax several times since enacting the 2001 law that lifted the tax for a year. Those bills have languished in the Senate. Supporters hope a bigger Republican majority there could mean the difference this year.


National Federation of Independent Business President Jack Faris said millions of small businesses are "looking for senators who are committed to supporting full repeal."


Sen. Jon Kyl (news, bio, voting record), R-Ariz., refused to predict the likelihood of success.


"We are working to see what the best approach is," Kyl said.


President Bush called the elimination "a matter of basic fairness." He said, "The death tax results in the double taxation of many family assets while hurting the source of most new jobs in this country — America's small business and farms."


Other Republicans agreed and said an estate tax discriminates against some families simply to raise money for government spending.


Most estates already are exempt from federal taxes. The Internal Revenue Service said just over 2 percent of people who died in 2001 left estates subject to taxation.


Rep. Christopher Cox (news, bio, voting record), R-Calif., said those pushing to retain a tax "still want to pry lots of cash out of the cold, dead fingers of America's deceased entrepreneurs."


House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said the bill favored the "super rich" and would make federal deficits worse.


"Do we want to continue reckless Republican tax policies or to return to a fair system of taxation?" Pelosi said.


Democrats lost in their bid to pass an alternative that quickly would increase the size of estates that are exempt from tax but leave the tax in place for the wealthiest estates. It was rejected by a 238-194 vote.


Current laws gradually increase the size of an estate exempt from tax and decrease the top tax rate before complete repeal in 2010.


This year, estates worth up to $1.5 million for an individual or $3 million for a couple owe no tax. The top tax rate stands at 47 percent. Just before its complete repeal, in 2009, the exemption increases to $3.5 million for an individual or $7 million for a couple. The tax rate falls to 45 percent.


The Democratic plan would increase the exemption to $3 million for an individual and $6 million for a couple, beginning in 2006. The exemption would increase in 2009 to $3.5 million for an individual and $7 million for a couple.


Rep. Earl Pomeroy (news, bio, voting record) of North Dakota, who offered the $70 billion Democratic alternative, said it would save many heirs from paying capital gains taxes that they should expect to owe if the estate tax were repealed.


"For every one it helps, it adds capital gains tax for many more," he said of the GOP's plan.

oh great, it's 2002 all over again. "double taxation", "death tax", "family farms", etc.

kingfish, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:54 (twenty years ago)

I'll call up my friend who stands to inherit a country club and congratulate him on his imminent victory.

Actor Sizemore fails drug test with fake penis (jingleberries), Thursday, 14 April 2005 00:00 (twenty years ago)

In related news, the Pentagon doesn't know how to track what money it DOES get:

Pentagon's War Spending Hard to Track - Watchdog
Wed Apr 13, 3:49 PM ET U.S. National - Reuters

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Defense Department is unable to track how it spent tens of millions of dollars in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere in the U.S. war on terrorism, Congress's top investigator said on Wednesday.

The department "doesn't have a system to be able to determine with any degree of reliability and specificity how we spent" tens of millions in war-related emergency funds set aside by Congress, Comptroller General David Walker told a Senate Armed Services subcommittee.

Walker heads the Government Accountability Office, Congress's nonpartisan audit and investigative arm. He disclosed the accounting gap as part of a broader indictment of Pentagon business practices.

Congress approved $25 billion in extra defense spending for fiscal 2005, which ends on Sept. 30. Lawmakers were moving to approve $81 billion more this week outside the normal budget process, including about $75 billion for war-related Defense Department operations.

While there was no doubt that appropriated funds were spent, "trying to figure out what they were spent on is like pulling teeth," Walker said, referring to an accounting effort he said was under way for Congress.

The Defense Department had no immediate comment.

Overall, Walker said the Defense Department, which is seeking $419.3 billion for its fiscal 2006 budget, was wasting billions of dollars a year because of ineffective management of its business operations...

remember a few months ago when the they were criticized on Iraqi spending, and the retort was something like "there was a war on! we couldn't hold ourselves to Western Accounting Standards!"

also, i'm reminded of the theory floated around by Lakoff & others that one of the reasons WHY the Reagan/Bush/Bush Admin were big fans of jacking up the Deficit was to put Grover Nordquist's idea into practice: because they didn't really want any of the more domestic(read: social) programs funded, they dumped everything into the army and cops(DOJ/FBI/CIA) so that there wasn't anything else left.

kingfish, Thursday, 14 April 2005 00:01 (twenty years ago)

When is it okay to start assasinating seantors and major CEOs?

RS, Thursday, 14 April 2005 00:56 (twenty years ago)

A 47% inheritance tax is mad though!

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 14 April 2005 01:21 (twenty years ago)

this only applies to HUGE ESTATES. Nevermind that most of these fuckers manage to funnel their money to their scumsucking Republican-spawn children in the form of tax-exempt gifts before they kick it.

47% is not unreasobable at all.

Open your eyes; you can fly! (ex machina), Thursday, 14 April 2005 01:37 (twenty years ago)

Yeah but it's like 43% for the lowest band over the threshold! Which is not insanely rich plutocrats. (It is probably higher in Britain actually, I know nothing about taxes! It just seems an extraordinary amount).

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 14 April 2005 01:41 (twenty years ago)

they should have increased the lower bound. paul volcker has suggested $100mil.

a banana (alanbanana), Thursday, 14 April 2005 01:52 (twenty years ago)

The threshold was insanely rich plutocrats, though. Even before the Bush-era cuts, the low was ~$1mln in value. Something like 2% of all estates were taxed under the old system, no family farms were torn asunder, etc..

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Thursday, 14 April 2005 01:55 (twenty years ago)

I'm not even sure I care anymore, as I hear Canada's still giving away homesteading land if you don't mind living in the Arctic Circle. How bad could it be?

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Thursday, 14 April 2005 01:56 (twenty years ago)

Again, you can funnel a lot of the money to your kids!

Open your eyes; you can fly! (ex machina), Thursday, 14 April 2005 02:16 (twenty years ago)

http://www.cjrdaily.org/archives/001446.asp

why this could make things screwier

kingfish, Thursday, 14 April 2005 22:47 (twenty years ago)

the explanation in the linked article is correct -- instead of a sufficiently large estate paying the tax, the heirs will be subject to capital gains tax when they sell any property that they get from an estate UNLESS the property they so receive gets a "step-up" to its fair market value on the date of the decedent's death. (to put it simply, "basis" under tax law = the amount one has paid for property, +/- certain adjustments [such as depreciation].) under current law, an heir AUTOMATICALLY gets a "step-up in basis" upon receiving property from an estate (i.e., the property's basis becomes its FMV on the decedent's date of death, which effectively wipes out any appreciation in the property b/w the date that the decedent acquired the property and the date the decedent died). if the estate tax is repealed, however, any "step-up in basis" is DISCRETIONARY with the estate's executor/administrator -- it's no longer automatic. it's something trusts and estates lawyers are WELL aware of (i.e., they won't be unemployed for long if the repeal goes through).

Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:34 (twenty years ago)

it should also be noted that the "permanent" repeal isn't a done deal -- if the senate version doesn't get at least 60 votes, it's off.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:37 (twenty years ago)

UHH I DONT GET IT

Open your eyes; you can fly! (ex machina), Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:39 (twenty years ago)

don't worry, you don't have enough $$$ to HAVE to be able to get it -- stop buying those wolf eyes cds!

Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:45 (twenty years ago)

I haven't bought a Wolf Eyes cd in over a year. No joke. They're very reasonably priced as well.

Open your eyes; you can fly! (ex machina), Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:52 (twenty years ago)

if you care to understand, what DON'T you get about it?

Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:52 (twenty years ago)

run that explanation by me one more time, if you please

kingfish, Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:57 (twenty years ago)

alright, let's assume that you died this year, yer estate is worth $2 million, and yer not married. let's also assume that yer entire estate is 20,000 shares of microsoft stock that you bought in 1986 for $1 per share. That $1 per share is yer BASIS in the stock for tax purposes.

If, the day before you died, you sold a share of microsoft stock for $100 (its fair market value). yer taxable capital gain on sale of the stock would be $99 -- i.e., the difference between its FMV on the date of sale ($100) and its basis (i.e., the $1 purchase price).

Now, let's assume instead that you DIDN'T sell any of the stock before you died so that you owned all 20,000 shares when you did, and that the stock's FMV on the date of death is also $100. as stated above, yer taxable estate (without figuring for any deductions) would be $2 million (i.e., 200 shares * $100). after subtracting this year's $1.5M exempt amount, your estate would pay an estate tax on $500K. the tax basis of each share of microsoft stock received by the heirs of yer estate would also be $100/share (NOT yer original $1/share basis). under estate tax law, this is called a "step-up in basis" -- it means that whether or not yer estate has paid any estate tax, yer heirs will NOT pay any capital gains tax on the stock's appreciation between the date you got it and the date you die. (they will have to pay any capital gain for any appreciation AFTER they get the stock from yer estate).

all of the above are the rules under the CURRENT estate tax regime. in 2010 -- and, if the estate tax repeal is made permanent, each year thereafter -- the heirs of yer estate will NOT automatically get a step-up in basis, to the stock's FMV on the date of yer death. they MAY get a portion of what is called "modified carryover basis." that is, each estate of an unmarried decedent (i.e., you) will be allowed to allocate up to $1.3 million in tax "basis" to the estate's assets. in my example, this means that $1.3M of the $2M in microsoft stock will FOREVER be exempt from ANY federal tax. however, the remaining $700K gets NO step-up in basis -- that is, the heir's basis of each share of microsoft stock to which the modified carryover amount has NOT been applied will be $1 (yer ORIGINAL basis in the stock) and NOT the $100 FMV on the date of yer death. this means that if yer heir sells the stock immediately after you die (and assuming that the FMV is still $100), he will have to pay capital gains tax on $99/share (i.e., the difference b/w the sales price and the carryover basis in the stock).

the OTHER fly in the ointment here, as i mentioned before, is that allocating the modified carryover amount is at the DISCRETION of the executor (absent any direction by the decedent in his will). right now, the step-up in basis is automatic -- if the estate tax is repealed, it ISN'T. so if an executor of an estate really dislikes one particular heir, he can allocate ALL of the $1.3 million carryover exemption amount to the estate's OTHER heirs and the disliked heir will be stuck with having to pay capital gains on the property that he received from yer estate. (THIS is why i said it may generate lawsuits -- from disgruntled heirs pissed off w/ estate executors or the attorney who drafted a will).

capisce?

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:22 (twenty years ago)

Tad the way you explained it makes it sound as if the AUTOMATIC "step-up" is a better situation than the DISCRETIONARY one, er, I don't see why changing that would be any better regarding the taxes paid on capital gains due to a sale of inherited property.

The thing about passing money onto heirs in gift payments before kicking it is that that money has to be fairly liquid for you to do so, and anybody can do that - the real estate tax is on non-liquid assets such as, uh, real estate, and that becomes an issue.

My parents have a $1m house in the tennessee mountains. Do I need to "get it?" Or will peak oil make rural hideaways drop in price?

Oh, xpost.

TOMBOT, Friday, 15 April 2005 00:25 (twenty years ago)

Tad the way you explained it makes it sound as if the AUTOMATIC "step-up" is a better situation than the DISCRETIONARY one, er, I don't see why changing that would be any better regarding the taxes paid on capital gains due to a sale of inherited property.

exactly, tombot!

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:28 (twenty years ago)

I could have just read the article! Stupid me. Well, fuck that!

TOMBOT, Friday, 15 April 2005 00:32 (twenty years ago)

I admit to having an interest in this given my own parents' situation. I know we've talked a bit about plans for the future w/r/t estate taxes and I suspect we might be talking again...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:33 (twenty years ago)

All I can say vis a vis non-liquid assets is DON'T BOTHER WITH THEM. My grandfather made the mistake of willing the house to his kids via an agreement with my grandmother (whose still, barely, alive) and it's resulted in 20 YEAR WAR, without even the question of estate taxes entering into the muddle. Sell your shit! Your kids don't want your real estate anyway, or your car, or anything!

I guess this d oesn't really apply if someone like real suddenly kicks it or something.

Allyzay Subservient 50s-Type (allyzay), Friday, 15 April 2005 01:39 (twenty years ago)

capisce?

...oh i'm sorry, i wasn't listening. i was too busy gloating from earlier when i took on the ENTIRE bar by meself and came in 2nd in tonight's pub quiz(out of 12 teams).

it helped that i knew every castmember on SCTV(except for that Rizoto guy) and that the Feelies' first album was named "Crazy Rhythms".


anyways, you were saying?

kingfish maximum overdrunk (Kingfish), Friday, 15 April 2005 07:00 (twenty years ago)


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