1. What is the ultimate origin of everything?
2. What is the source or suffering, evil, or oppression?
3. What is a solution that would set things right again?
Either answer what you personally believe or a famous philosophical/religious view. Alter the questions as you see fit.
― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 14 April 2005 12:54 (twenty years ago)
1. self-creating, self-generating matter, dialectical materialism.
2. private property
3. Revolution! the proletariat overthrowing the oppressors and returning to a simple primative communisitic paradise.
― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 14 April 2005 12:56 (twenty years ago)
1) random chance2) humanity3) humanity
― Ed (dali), Thursday, 14 April 2005 12:57 (twenty years ago)
1. A self-perpetuating ravaging Will2. the principle of individuation, wherein we fall victim to a veil of illusions which cause suffering. 3. denying these illusions through saintly or aesthetic contemplation. this doesn't always work but helps a little.
in religious terms this general question is called the problem of evil. it's a motherfucker of a question and probably unanswerable. i think Buddha and Schop and similar ideas, even Christian ones like Pascal, or others like Lacan and Cioran are close to right. there's something fundamentally "wrong" with existence and consciousness.
― ryan (ryan), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:04 (twenty years ago)
2. The true matter of existence is pure will, pure striving. As a result it can never be satisfied. And so suffering is and pain is the nature of existence.
3. There isn't really one, but aesthetic contemplation and asceticism may help.
― Dialectical Dave Schopenhauer (Dialectical Dave), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:04 (twenty years ago)
― Dialectical Dave (Dialectical Dave), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:04 (twenty years ago)
― ryan (ryan), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:06 (twenty years ago)
better wd be: 1: uninteresting question wrt marxist analysis 2: tyranny 3: humanity as one controlling its own destiny
acc.marxist analysis (which is very dedicated indeed to preferring specific historical perspective over "universal" perspective) private property and proletarian revolution belong to very particular phases of history - both are social phenomena w.a before and an after
― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:07 (twenty years ago)
1. God, the prime mover/watchmaker.2. Our own lack of perspective, superstition and irrationality.3. Using reason to understand the world and bring us closer to God.
(that's what I gather, anyway)
― Cathy (Cathy), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:08 (twenty years ago)
― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:10 (twenty years ago)
― ryan (ryan), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:14 (twenty years ago)
1. God, not as mover/watchmaker, but as everything. Pantheistic2. individual, self, desires.3. becoming one with God.
― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:16 (twenty years ago)
it's interesting to compare the questions of why in a particular contingent situation there is suffering, which we can usually decide on, and why there is suffering at all, which is probably a bad question for a lot of reasons but one which unfortunately people like me feel compelled to ask.
― ryan (ryan), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:18 (twenty years ago)
― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:21 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:23 (twenty years ago)
of course any given marxist is "in history right now" so can be correct about the present situation w/o having to even slightly understand all other situations from the deep past or remote future, so marxists are basically correct when they say that the "universal perpsective" that others make such a big deal about is never ACTUALLY universal at all: hence their position is NOT actually contradictory (in some ways it's more like the pragmatists position than either side are probably comfortable with!)
(the dialectic is a method of analysis really: a way of processing historical information to understand the forces at work in it)
― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:24 (twenty years ago)
― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:25 (twenty years ago)
1. Indeterminable, unquantifiable, incomprehensible2. Human error3. Voluntary aherence to a code of conduct founded on mutual tolerance followed by respect followed by understanding. Failing that, compulsory adherence via bionic implants as bequeathed by your caring Big Brother.
― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:25 (twenty years ago)
― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:46 (twenty years ago)
― DG (D_To_The_G), Thursday, 14 April 2005 14:07 (twenty years ago)
― RickyT (RickyT), Thursday, 14 April 2005 14:09 (twenty years ago)
Here are my answers:
1) This is a trick question; there is no ultimate origin. Humans tend to think things must have a beginning and an end, but there is no reason this sort of human view applies to the universe. Religious people say: there must be a god, because all things come from somewhere. Therefore, the universe must've come from somewhere too, it can't just be, and that somewhere is god. But when you ask them, where did god come from then, they say: well, he didn't come from anywhere, he just is. I say the universe just is, adding god to the equation only makes it more complex.
2) There isn't a single source. Some suffering, like that caused by natural disasters, is inevitable. Some suffering is caused by human selfishness, and this seems mostly inevitable too, even though it's degree can be lessened with all sorts of methods. A lot of suffering, however, is caused by the power structures in the society, which can be altered.
3) There is no simple solution, but a rule of thumb would be: the more some people have power over others, the more suffering there is. In an ideal society no one would have more power than everyone else has.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 14 April 2005 14:11 (twenty years ago)
― Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 14 April 2005 21:38 (twenty years ago)
"some kind of new age religion"??? Minus the pantheism, that sounds more like taoism or some kinds of buddhism to me. And I surely hope you dont class something even older than xianity as "new age". heh.
― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 14 April 2005 22:18 (twenty years ago)
― ryan (ryan), Thursday, 14 April 2005 22:25 (twenty years ago)
1. What is the ultimate origin of everything?GOD
2. What is the source or suffering, evil, or oppression?ORIGINAL SIN
3. What is a solution that would set things right again?THE FINAL JUDGMENT
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 14 April 2005 22:28 (twenty years ago)
ii)interweb addiction
iii)get one sexual partner
― @, Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:15 (twenty years ago)
― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:21 (twenty years ago)
― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:27 (twenty years ago)
― kingfish, Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:28 (twenty years ago)
― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:30 (twenty years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:07 (twenty years ago)
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:25 (twenty years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:36 (twenty years ago)
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:40 (twenty years ago)
I'd say for number three that is what many (socalled) Christians believe, but it is more accurately put as BELIEF IN JESUS AS SAVIOR.
― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 15 April 2005 02:37 (twenty years ago)
Yeah a lot of New Age is essentially taoism or buddhism but with less of a tradition.
― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 15 April 2005 02:40 (twenty years ago)
1. The Big Dude
2. Dudes Holding Hands
3. Dudes Not Holding Hands
― Star Cauliflower (Star Cauliflower), Friday, 15 April 2005 03:01 (twenty years ago)