ultimate origin, source of suffering, and solution?

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For various philosophical or religious views what are the theorized answers of these three questions?

1. What is the ultimate origin of everything?

2. What is the source or suffering, evil, or oppression?

3. What is a solution that would set things right again?


Either answer what you personally believe or a famous philosophical/religious view. Alter the questions as you see fit.

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 14 April 2005 12:54 (twenty years ago)

I'll start with Marxism for example:

1. self-creating, self-generating matter, dialectical materialism.

2. private property

3. Revolution! the proletariat overthrowing the oppressors and returning to a simple primative communisitic paradise.

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 14 April 2005 12:56 (twenty years ago)

Reality is:

1) random chance
2) humanity
3) humanity

Ed (dali), Thursday, 14 April 2005 12:57 (twenty years ago)

Schopenhauer!

1. A self-perpetuating ravaging Will
2. the principle of individuation, wherein we fall victim to a veil of illusions which cause suffering.
3. denying these illusions through saintly or aesthetic contemplation. this doesn't always work but helps a little.

in religious terms this general question is called the problem of evil. it's a motherfucker of a question and probably unanswerable. i think Buddha and Schop and similar ideas, even Christian ones like Pascal, or others like Lacan and Cioran are close to right. there's something fundamentally "wrong" with existence and consciousness.

ryan (ryan), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:04 (twenty years ago)

1. ???

2. The true matter of existence is pure will, pure striving. As a result it can never be satisfied. And so suffering is and pain is the nature of existence.

3. There isn't really one, but aesthetic contemplation and asceticism may help.

Dialectical Dave Schopenhauer (Dialectical Dave), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:04 (twenty years ago)

shit

Dialectical Dave (Dialectical Dave), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:04 (twenty years ago)

that's just my take though. as i said it's almost as difficult a queston as "why is there somethign rather than nothing?" so why does the something suffer?

ryan (ryan), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:06 (twenty years ago)

ha dave!

ryan (ryan), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:06 (twenty years ago)

nairn i think you've got all three wrong wrt marxism!!

better wd be:
1: uninteresting question wrt marxist analysis
2: tyranny
3: humanity as one controlling its own destiny

acc.marxist analysis (which is very dedicated indeed to preferring specific historical perspective over "universal" perspective) private property and proletarian revolution belong to very particular phases of history - both are social phenomena w.a before and an after

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:07 (twenty years ago)

here's Deism:

1. God, the prime mover/watchmaker.
2. Our own lack of perspective, superstition and irrationality.
3. Using reason to understand the world and bring us closer to God.

(that's what I gather, anyway)

Cathy (Cathy), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:08 (twenty years ago)

(it's bcz marxism is allergic to "universal" perspectives that 2 and 3 end up being so vague when you try and state them as "universals")

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:10 (twenty years ago)

doesn't marxist analysis itself claim that universal perspective? or the dialectic?

ryan (ryan), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:14 (twenty years ago)

some kind of New Age Religion:

1. God, not as mover/watchmaker, but as everything. Pantheistic
2. individual, self, desires.
3. becoming one with God.

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:16 (twenty years ago)

i wonder what Pragmatism would say?

it's interesting to compare the questions of why in a particular contingent situation there is suffering, which we can usually decide on, and why there is suffering at all, which is probably a bad question for a lot of reasons but one which unfortunately people like me feel compelled to ask.

ryan (ryan), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:18 (twenty years ago)

I can't think what the answer to 1. would be in Middle Earth.

Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:21 (twenty years ago)

That's easy, it's Eru Iluvatar.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:23 (twenty years ago)

well difft marxists probably get out of this rawther tricky knot difft ways ryan: but yes, it definitely simultaneously claims
MAKE NO MISTAKE WE ARE RIGHT
*and*
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 'UNIVERSAL PERSPECTIVE'

of course any given marxist is "in history right now" so can be correct about the present situation w/o having to even slightly understand all other situations from the deep past or remote future, so marxists are basically correct when they say that the "universal perpsective" that others make such a big deal about is never ACTUALLY universal at all: hence their position is NOT actually contradictory (in some ways it's more like the pragmatists position than either side
are probably comfortable with!)

(the dialectic is a method of analysis really: a way of processing historical information to understand the forces at work in it)

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:24 (twenty years ago)

(on ile all three questions have the same answer: DG!)

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:25 (twenty years ago)

Daveism

1. Indeterminable, unquantifiable, incomprehensible
2. Human error
3. Voluntary aherence to a code of conduct founded on mutual tolerance followed by respect followed by understanding. Failing that, compulsory adherence via bionic implants as bequeathed by your caring Big Brother.

$V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:25 (twenty years ago)

GNOSTICISM!

Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:46 (twenty years ago)

thesis / antithesis / mark s

DG (D_To_The_G), Thursday, 14 April 2005 14:07 (twenty years ago)

Woah, it's DG!

RickyT (RickyT), Thursday, 14 April 2005 14:09 (twenty years ago)

1. What is the ultimate origin of everything?

2. What is the source or suffering, evil, or oppression?

3. What is a solution that would set things right again?


Here are my answers:

1) This is a trick question; there is no ultimate origin. Humans tend to think things must have a beginning and an end, but there is no reason this sort of human view applies to the universe. Religious people say: there must be a god, because all things come from somewhere. Therefore, the universe must've come from somewhere too, it can't just be, and that somewhere is god. But when you ask them, where did god come from then, they say: well, he didn't come from anywhere, he just is. I say the universe just is, adding god to the equation only makes it more complex.

2) There isn't a single source. Some suffering, like that caused by natural disasters, is inevitable. Some suffering is caused by human selfishness, and this seems mostly inevitable too, even though it's degree can be lessened with all sorts of methods. A lot of suffering, however, is caused by the power structures in the society, which can be altered.

3) There is no simple solution, but a rule of thumb would be: the more some people have power over others, the more suffering there is. In an ideal society no one would have more power than everyone else has.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 14 April 2005 14:11 (twenty years ago)

Parse error on line 1. Please debug universe.

Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 14 April 2005 21:38 (twenty years ago)

some kind of New Age Religion:

1. God, not as mover/watchmaker, but as everything. Pantheistic
2. individual, self, desires.
3. becoming one with God.

"some kind of new age religion"??? Minus the pantheism, that sounds more like taoism or some kinds of buddhism to me. And I surely hope you dont class something even older than xianity as "new age". heh.

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 14 April 2005 22:18 (twenty years ago)

it's kind of remarkable how similar these all are.

ryan (ryan), Thursday, 14 April 2005 22:25 (twenty years ago)

xianity

1. What is the ultimate origin of everything?
GOD

2. What is the source or suffering, evil, or oppression?
ORIGINAL SIN

3. What is a solution that would set things right again?
THE FINAL JUDGMENT

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 14 April 2005 22:28 (twenty years ago)

i)ilx

ii)interweb addiction

iii)get one sexual partner

@, Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:15 (twenty years ago)

solution to suffering: The Hedonistic Imperative outlines how nanotechnology and genetic engineering will eliminate aversive experience from the living world.

Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:21 (twenty years ago)

That is fascinating.

Masked Gazza, Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:27 (twenty years ago)

fun fact: all the Rapture shit didn't get popular(or really show up) until sometime in the early-mid 19th century in America(i think). Slacktivist has written extensively on this. i believe that the technical term is "premillenial dispensationalism".

kingfish, Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:28 (twenty years ago)

amster i kiss you

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:30 (twenty years ago)

why has nobody yet mentioned
1. who remembers?
2. alcohol
3. alcohol

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:07 (twenty years ago)

are "philosophical/religious view[s]" "famous"?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:25 (twenty years ago)

only if they've been in hit movies?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:36 (twenty years ago)

http://www.snl-e.salk.edu/fun/thesis-defense/22-toast.jpg

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:40 (twenty years ago)

xianity

1. What is the ultimate origin of everything?
GOD

2. What is the source or suffering, evil, or oppression?
ORIGINAL SIN

3. What is a solution that would set things right again?
THE FINAL JUDGMENT

I'd say for number three that is what many (socalled) Christians believe, but it is more accurately put as BELIEF IN JESUS AS SAVIOR.

A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 15 April 2005 02:37 (twenty years ago)

"some kind of new age religion"??? Minus the pantheism, that sounds more like taoism or some kinds of buddhism to me.

Yeah a lot of New Age is essentially taoism or buddhism but with less of a tradition.

A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 15 April 2005 02:40 (twenty years ago)

The Christian Right:

1. The Big Dude

2. Dudes Holding Hands

3. Dudes Not Holding Hands

Star Cauliflower (Star Cauliflower), Friday, 15 April 2005 03:01 (twenty years ago)


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