Would fist fights amongst friends always harm a friendship?

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a question that stemmed from my head whilst posting on the Fighting C/D thread.

do you think fist fights with your friends would always harm a friendship? Even if there is arrangment beforehand to say that it's just a fight, with no strings attached? Even if it's agreed that it is meaningless and is only to kill time and blood in between having fights with your real enemies?

Would you feel guilty afterwards? Would you feel you've betrayed your nemeses by having a fight with someone else behind his/her back?

Has anyone here done this before? Did you enjoy it? Was it worth the pain? Feel free to log out obviously if you feel confessing here may sever emotional ties.

― ken c (ken c), Saturday, 16 April 2005 07:36 (twenty years ago)

in my experience verbals spats are FAR more damaging long term and short than 'fist fights'.

― j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 16 April 2005 07:48 (twenty years ago)

well this is because there's emotion involved there. when you have a straight fight, you just punch, you can trash talk, but you can't get personal or things get messy.

― ken c (ken c), Saturday, 16 April 2005 07:52 (twenty years ago)

um 'fist fights' get personal ken.

― j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 16 April 2005 07:54 (twenty years ago)

i mean seriously when you've gotten in a fist fight have you been more reserved or composed than during a verbal spat? it's not like you're going to be more concerned with crossing a line or hurting a guy's feeling while you're trying to beat his skull than you are when you're i don't know doing some bert and ernie shit. blame it on adrenaline, testosterone, whatever.

― j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 16 April 2005 07:59 (twenty years ago)

wait, does this actually happen? because otherwise i'm betting it would just be drunk idiots that have watched Fight Club too many times. they'd end up not remembering anything in the morning probably

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:02 (twenty years ago)

Well, you've basically re-asked the question of the thread.

xpost

― ken c (ken c), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:03 (twenty years ago)

naw man, it's cool! just some bros havin fun, lettin off some steam!

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:03 (twenty years ago)

lemin, I don't know. Hence the question - I'm really entertaining the idea of recreational fights amongst friends. With no emotion involved. Just for the experience of fighting when your nemesis isn't around to fill your urges.

― ken c (ken c), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:05 (twenty years ago)

Another question to throw into the mix: Have you ever been jealous because your arch enemy is having a fight with some other guy?

Even though you know full well that he still hates you very much, but it's just that he's gotten to hate someone else also?

― ken c (ken c), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:07 (twenty years ago)

how did you feel when you find out? how did you deal with this?

did you go off to fight someone else too in revenge? did you confront your enemy about it?

should you stop hating him? is it even possible? or do you just end up a ruined man with the image of them fighting running in your head all the time?

― ken c (ken c), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:11 (twenty years ago)

it would just be drunk idiots that have watched Fight Club too many times. they'd end up not remembering anything in the morning probably

I've been one of these, but I remember it, and it was GREAT. A bit of blood and bruising can really get a party started.

― JimD (JimD), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:11 (twenty years ago)

did you have any rules to the fight, Jim? or was it a free-for-all until someone has had enough?

(if it was THAT rule you've obviously broken it)

― ken c (ken c), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:13 (twenty years ago)

i mean one reason fist fights are a bad idea as adults is that 1) it can end up involving the law and 2) it can lead to serious physical damage. when kids fight maybe they get suspended or grounded but jail's not a likelihood (i'm talking no weapons here obv.), and christ i'd be willing to bet a majority of the time there's no suspension or grounding. and a kid might end up with a black eye or a bloody nose but there isn't nearly as high a possibility a fight between fourth graders ends up with someone in the hospital. basically fist fights as an adult are a bad idea for the same reason playing tackle football without pads as an adult is a bad idea - your body can dish out more and take less and the consequences of what you dish out (jail) or take (hospital) are alot worse than 'no tv for a week'. BUT one good thing about fist fights between friends is that while fighting's a horrible way to resolve a dispute, it's a helluva way to END one if only cuz both parties will realise 'this isn't worth one of us ending up in jail/the hospital over' or most likely the cliched epiphany 'what are we fighting for?' maybe during or well after the fight in which case maybe there'll be a 'damn dude you can throw a punch' or 'you totally got the jump on me' or maybe not but in any case usually BOTH PARTIES MOVE THE FUCK ON whereas i know people who've let arguments and the bitterness from them drag the fuck on for years with residual nastiness over petty ass shit and as a result are ye olde 'people who are friends but can't fucking stand each other'. the only way i've really seen these things get resolved is somebody moves to another state.

― j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:23 (twenty years ago)

Well, it's happened a few times, and generally it's "taking turns to hit each other REALLY FUCKING HARD". Rather than an out and out brawl. So I guess you could argue it doesn't count. Except that quite often there's an element of surprise in there too, when it's your turn to make the punch you can walk away, talk about something else, whatever, then five minutes later come back and BLAM!

A few times it's been proper real fights though, where we've taken off jackets and gone outside a pub and just gone at it. One time this was with a girl, and she beat me, cos girls fight dirty and go for your nuts.

I've not done any of this at all though for, ooh, about two years I think.

― JimD (JimD), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:25 (twenty years ago)

though then again the only fight i ended up in the hospital over was when i was a kid so i might be wrong! i don't think i harbored any ill will towards the other kid afterwards though!

― j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:25 (twenty years ago)

the only fistfight I've been in ended with me and my (previous to the fight) enemy becoming buddies!

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:28 (twenty years ago)

yeah i think the 'dude hit me, hit me', the jake lamotta thing 'for fun' is common enough but i've never actually heard of adults fighting for kicks a la fight club or whatever.

― j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:28 (twenty years ago)

but what if you have agreements before hand though? you're fixating on the idea of fighting as a result of a dispute, of course then the idea is to hurt as much out of the other guy as possible and things get stupid.

but reasonable adults have the advantage of knowing all of the points that you have mentioned above, and make agreements with each other as to, for example the law will not be involved under any circumstances and the fight stops at any point where one person feels he is being hurt way more than he can take.

basically like boxing, or kick-boxing amongst friends with less structure.

xxxxpost with the long blount post

― ken c (ken c), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:31 (twenty years ago)

the only fistfight I've been in ended with me and my (previous to the fight) enemy becoming buddies!

aw, hate turning to love.

fistfights can change everything.

― ken c (ken c), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:32 (twenty years ago)

i think i would cry if someone hit me with their fist

― gem (trisk), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:39 (twenty years ago)

well yeah of course there's some sort of argument beforehand, it's not like you're friends gonna use the wrong shampoo one night and the scent will trigger a fight reflex in you. i've never heard of boxing amongst friends unless they were, yknow, boxers - amateur, whatever - in which case the bitterness is more likely 'dude's a better boxer than me' than 'dude just hit me upside the head', maybe there's some personal bitterness if the guy rabbit punches or something. it wouldn't seem to neccesarily lead to ill will afterwards anymore than a game of monopoly. as for fights that go until someone calls 'uncle' (which i guess ?? is what you're referring to), brothers, cousings, brosephs, broheems, etc. do this ALL the time and it doesn't 'harm' the relationship, cf. arrested development.

― j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:42 (twenty years ago)

Er...no, that's not what it's been like for me, I've only ever fought people who I had ABSOLUTELY no beef with at all. Otherwise you can't trust it to get nasty. So it's only my closest bestest friends who've punched and been punched by me.

― JimD (JimD), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:45 (twenty years ago)

it occurs to me that what i'm saying might be best read 'with guys in my experience' cuz i've seen some hairpulling falldown fights between girlfriends that ain't resolved or ended a damn thing, it's just another aspect of the sniping and shittalking. epic.

― j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:45 (twenty years ago)

maybe unrelated, but I've always found it interesting that the athletes that have the least physical contact with one another (baseball players) are the ones that don't give the other team the ol' high-five after the games.

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:48 (twenty years ago)

like they haven't "worked that shit out" physically, so the tension remains.

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:48 (twenty years ago)

jim are you guys 'fighting' fighting, like several punches, movement, some gestures of defense, like yknow you're trying to beat the other guy up? or is it like 'ok hit me in the stomach/face/whatever as hard as you can' type thing?

― j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:49 (twenty years ago)

gear i swear i think after some major league game last year the two teams actually did the little league lineup 'good game' thing but i can't remember who. god i would've been horrified if i'd seen that. but yeah the most obv/typical case of where you'll see players cross the field/court after the game and shake hands, pat on the back, etc is football which is definitely the most physical. it might be too that baseball players most likely are gonna have to play those guys again the next day whereas in other sports they're probably not gonna face each other again for a few weeks or a couple of months or years even in football's case.

― j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 16 April 2005 08:58 (twenty years ago)

Like I said, it's usually been the latter, but I've had a few instances of the former too. And even then, there's been a kind of giddy pleasure about it, there's always a lot of "jesus, that punch REALLY hurt!" laughter that goes along with it, it's never felt angry at all. It's just fun. So yeah, there's never any desire to *actually* hurt the other guy, just to see how much you can get away with hurting him before either he asks to stop, or you get the guilt attack and stop anyway. And when you're both doing that at the same time, it's a nice dynamic. But yeah, it's definitely got a built in safety valve. So it's never felt dangerous. And half the fun is in the reaction of spectators too, who maybe don't realise that it's all safe and consensual.

― JimD (JimD), Saturday, 16 April 2005 09:02 (twenty years ago)

Jim you are awesome.

― ken c (ken c), Saturday, 16 April 2005 10:40 (twenty years ago)

next time i see you ken i'll smack you in the teeth. :)

― JimD (JimD), Saturday, 16 April 2005 12:04 (twenty years ago)

yay! finally a fight buddy!

― ken c (ken c), Saturday, 16 April 2005 12:37 (twenty years ago)

That happened at the end of the LA/STL playoff series last year. Jim Tracy, their manager, is a real touchy-feely calming type of guy, so the post-series handshakes were an extension of his managing style.

But yeah, when that happened, I was OMGWTF'ing all over the place.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 16 April 2005 13:46 (twenty years ago)

I've only gotten in a "serious" fist fight kind of thing with a friend once. I've hit and punched a lot of my friends, but it wasn't over serious matters or because I didn't want them to be my friend anymore, or anything like that. The one time I was in that kind of fight was in 2nd grade in the girl's bathroom. I don't remember how it started (who said what), but I remember I slapped the other girl, who was my best friend at the time, and she slapped me back. Then we both stared at eachother with our mouths open and we just began laughing so hard.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 16 April 2005 14:00 (twenty years ago)

Is there any chance of an ILX UFC tournament? With maybe the final taking place in a six-sided cage suspended somewhere over the atlantic?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 16 April 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

wait, does this actually happen? because otherwise i'm betting it would just be drunk idiots that have watched Fight Club too many times. they'd end up not remembering anything in the morning probably

Indeed, I know a few of my friends that did exactly this. Two of them now hate each other, due to this event.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Sunday, 17 April 2005 20:37 (twenty years ago)

i think i would cry if someone hit me with their fist

TOO MANY PENIS JOKES, NOT ENOUGH TIME

Okay, now that I've gotten past that, when I was in college we would still do things like play bloody knuckles and stuff, but I've never actually had a fight club with my friends. In high school, we used to give each other charlie horses, sometimes with just a fist but more often with the eraser of a pencil; it was kind of a wierd small town dominance ritual but everyone knew the game and no one who wasn't willing to play ever got sucked into it. Although, now that I think about it, that ended after one of my friends gave another friend a charlie horse with the point of a pencil, not the eraser. So yeah, I've done this but I was 15 at the time.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Sunday, 17 April 2005 21:05 (twenty years ago)

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