How frustrated are you with the state of the world presently?

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Broad, obvious and a constant in human history. But let me hopefully provide a bit of an initial anchor, though I fear this will take the form of a disjointed ramble:

Reading histories recently on the apartheid regime in South Africa, as well as viewing Resnais' Night and Fog for the first time, have led me to reflect a bit about the idea of fighting against evil. Extended political reflection, review and discussion further feeds into the idea of a constant state of, if not struggle, then of activism, of carrying out certain steps and acting the way one always should as matched with one's convictions.

Frustration with 'the world,' it would seem to me, is potentially part and parcel with this state of mind. The idea that there are forces, factors, situations, elements out there which upset the best laid plans of mice and humans, that all the anger and expression and contempt one can muster individually or collectively can mean nothing against a decision made or a broader belief held that you oppose.

Are you frustrated or not, though? Is it as simple as saying this would be a factor? You do not have to be an 'activist,' self-described, to answer this question I think, in fact that's the whole point -- does your frustration spur you on to greater heights, does it beat you down and leave you thinking that the best you can do is ride things out quietly, does it result in another feeling entirely, do you never feel frustrated despite the result of a vote, a decision, a trend, more?

Perhaps this question seems ridiculous on the face of it, in that the argument can be made that 'well, we all have to live our lives' -- and indeed we do, but the point is, we live them contextually, perhaps in a place and state doing things pissing us off, perhaps doing exactly what needs doing right now. We live them in a society where many different factors -- environmental, social, economic, etc. -- are brought to bear, and in which we all (hopefully) have some form of agency to impact them, however small. Even if we are not on the figurative barricades, how do you act, or do you act, when things are not working out as they 'should,' or as you see they should?

I do not know how frustrated per se I am. In many ways I am an optimist, an extremely cockeyed one perhaps, and this is something perhaps derived at base from having been raised in a position of relative comfort and ease, trained by what was around me to consider America to be the great and evolving experiment, a constant progression forward -- to look, when younger, at the changes that happened in this society (the expansion of the vote, the abolition of slavery, the move away from laissez-faire) as logical changes over time, that it was 'progress' as generally defined -- without, I think now, truly taking into account the forces and time and energy that went into those changes, and how insurmountable the odds must have been.

The Bush presidency, unsurprisingly, frustrates me greatly. But am I truly so frustrated with it as to not do more to work against it and its cultural assumptions than one vote every four years? My membership in advocacy groups is one thing, but I do not go out and act, I do not stand for representation in my work union, I am content generally to observe and to laugh blackly -- and I do not think this reflects to my credit. Am I less frustrated with the nation and the world than I realize, and am I content simply to metaphorically pirouette on the edge of the coastline here and say to myself, "Well, could be worse for me." And am I alone, how many of us have made our choices and said to ourselves, "Well, I'll just hope the next time around it's better," because little more can be done in the meantime?

I do not know. But it is an interesting question -- again, one always asked and reasked, I believe, in differing guises and contexts. For now, for here, it has come to mind. What do you think?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

Very.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 19:20 (twenty years ago)

I'll have to write more on this later but I figured I'd inform you that your essay is excellent and as for the titular topic I'm perpetually frustrated, so it seems, although I don't really make it visible.

Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

Well, not all the bloody time.

Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 19:27 (twenty years ago)

i can get frustrated with the world. but i often take a more fatalistic approach. i mean, how do you really expect the world to be? is it really supposed to be different than it is?

ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

or in other words: why do you expect it to be better than it is?

ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 19:36 (twenty years ago)

Well duh, it's meant to revolve around only me (I should have mentioned that ;-)).

More seriously, when one's learned-then-developed axiomatic expectations grind up against everything else -- but those axiomatic expectations remain (and are perhaps strengthened) -- then that might be part of the answer right there.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

xpost

It is easy to be frustrated, because it is difficult for our individual desires, wishes or actions to be reflected back to us from what we are encouraged to view as "the world" - which is to say, the world that is on display in newspapers, movies and on television.

A child will be frustrated when its desires are thwarted in the context of the immediate world around it - the ice cream cone it doesn't get to eat. That's real frustration.

A little thought will tell you that no one person is likely to change "the world" that Ned is referring to. Even when we join massive combinations and associations, such as political parties and million-member organizations, it is hard for one's desires to be fullfilled.

The only POV that seems to work for me is to keep in sight the dilution of my individual force as it moves successively more remote from my immediate presence. Providing an example to others is still the most powerful thing we can do. I can affect myself and the people around me very profoundly by my actions.

I am certain "the world" responds to my actions, too, but never in any way I will be able to sense directly. Still, it's the best I can do.

Aimless (Aimless), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 19:55 (twenty years ago)

Hm, this obliquely reminds me of the Man in the Shack from The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, to which I have also been listening/reading lately. ;-) The point is good, though. One wonders if yet more can truly be done.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

My frustration with the world makes me do two things, both sort of half-assed though. Trying to change the things that frustrate me (in order: willful ignorance about genocide, gay marriage, religious fundamentalism coming into the government, trade justice) is something I only do when I have plenty of free time. Being so ridiculously privileged allows me to be way more apathetic than I think I should be

Most of the volunteering I do is within the community instead of globally oriented. I am pretty bad at activism, mostly because I only do anything when I think the *rest* of my life is going pretty well, and because I've really only started to develop a social conscience since coming to college and being smacked in the face with the vision of how privileged I am. There's so much to get a handle on globally that I do not think I will be able to change anything really, and I'm not sure if my evaluations of what would be good to change are well-informed enough that I SHOULD work that hard for it. I might just screw it up. Sometimes I get fatalistic when I don't have to, and I think that's a flaw - better to be too idealistic than too apathetic. So I mostly just try to educate myself & other people and to write letters to representatives or think more about my consumption habits and stuff like that.

And sometimes frustration makes me religious. It's inspiring to have a hope of a more perfect world that we can move towards, personally and socially; even if we don't get there, it's the vision that's important, and the obligation it gives me to try to help achieve it. I think that obligation has to do with changing the world AND changing myself, so sometimes it comforts me to think that maybe the only way or the best way I can change the world is by changing myself. And the Christian story is beautiful on many symbolic levels to me, so I use it at different times and in different ways to make the world seem more beautiful.

Maria (Maria), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

A Gambit, Rogue, Wolverine and Storm of X-posts.

What's the quote about how the mind is not in the world, the world is in the mind or somesuch?

I think everyone's the king of their kingdom and they will run into problems for themselves, or more usually create problems for others, if they step outside that. "Make sure that in your own area of effect you're doing your best, leading by example". The problem with this lofty idea is that a lot of people frequently throw their weight around outside of their areas of effect and it's difficult to watch it from the sidelines whilst you yourself are playing by 'the rules'. It depends on how much you think evil exists in your world - is it evil or just good intentions with you on the wrong end of the moral relavitist's demented swing-o-meter? Every single time the question comes up it's fresh and new and needs you to decide that case on it's merits (and for what it's worth if you think there is little evil you're being too intellectual and cold and if you think there is a large amount of evil then you're being too animalistic and reactionary). It's nature's way of laughing at you. It's tiring, it's heartbreaking and leads to the kind of fatigue thats evident in what you wrote. Sometimes I look out of the window and think "For fuck's sake, just Stop Spinning! Give us a break, give us a chance to just get hold of things for a few minutes at least!". Then ding ding the bell rings, the gloves are on and it's round infinity on Boxing Ring Earth.

These days there are that many injustices that you can read about that it's impossible to keep up. Life is insultingly short and as individuals we're getting smaller and less important which is incredibly cruel seeing as we're becoming more self-aware at the same time. It's hard to be self-aware and not get tired - it's an extra effort on your part just being self-aware, like you're constantly bench-pressing each issue that comes your way.

I've absolutely no idea what the answer is. Take 200 mushrooms, do some actual bench-pressing, paint a picture, get into S&M clubs, get into Slayer. . . I'm a meditation man myself as you can probably tell from this rambling hippy crap.

A / F#m / Bm / D (Lynskey), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

Slayer's good.

latebloomer: strawman knockdowner (latebloomer), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

I am very frustrated, but I don't think that all is lost, or that this is the end of everything. There's still good and progress in the world, and I very strongly believe that no matter what conservatives do, they cannot change progress, only impede it. That's why conservatives fight so hard and make so much noise, especially now - it's because they are fighting a losing battle and know it, no matter how much power they accumulate.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 20:25 (twenty years ago)

I think that's maybe the real reason liberal/progressives don't fight so hard. Part of it is the incredible, far reaching power of the right wing, but it's also maybe a faith that we're on the winning side of history in the longterm, and that the hatred and fear that guides the fanatics will inevitably be their undoing.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 20:32 (twenty years ago)

It would be a bit extreme to say I'm screaming, but I'm certainly drumming my fingers on the desktop. This will seem outrageous to some, but probably only at first sight: the proposition has been forwarded that 'life is what you make it' -- quite so, but there's the rub, everything is related to everything else, whether we act in accordance with our beliefs or not. The nature of the society we live in is that economics, politics and history all have their part to play, and all have their place in our daily grapple with the facts at our disposal. But look a little deeper and you'll see that all is not as it seems, excepting the legitimate disagreement of those who, quite legitimately, disagree. I felt it was high time that someone spoke out about this.

This is all wrapped up, of course, with our capacity to express qualified unease at the ease with which we face these things. Reluctantly, I've come to the conclusion that It's all a balance between balancing and falling off the highwire, particularly when the anchor is, in reality, flying at half mast. The history of slavery, the failure of the reparations negotiations, and the disappointing last series of Buffy have made me take the provocative stand that I am now taking. For I am convinced that, apart of course from action, only inaction remains a constant in human affairs. And I'm really quite concerned that nobody has raised this, although it's perfectly understandable too, in a number of ways too complex and inter-related to narrate right at this moment, which is, as I've said, one of a kind, pretty much like any other.

Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 20:45 (twenty years ago)

But is it art?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 20:46 (twenty years ago)

I had a very pithy point to contribute, then I fed it through The Nedolator™ and that's what came out.

Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 20:53 (twenty years ago)

:-D

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 20:54 (twenty years ago)

I'd actually love it if such a thing existed. Can you program it?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 20:55 (twenty years ago)

There's a little sikh in Bangalore who does it while pedalling round on a wallah-ped. He stops at internet cafes in between delivering lunches and does the Nedolator™ thing, then gets back on the wallah-ped. If the site's down, he's probably out dodging cows and bicycles.

Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 20:58 (twenty years ago)

Hey, neat. :-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 21:00 (twenty years ago)

(okay, I confess I haven't read all of this thread yet but I think I get the gist of where things are going and my POV is pretty much as follows):

1) there is no victory, no "progress", no final reckoning. frustration comes from expecting a favorable resolution and not finding one - but there IS NEVER ANY RESOLUTION.
2) that being the case, the world is still clearly animated by moral struggles, good vs. evil, right vs. wrong, etc. the best one can do is to choose a side and lead by example, thus giving yourself a role to play and a part to fulfill. so while I don't expect suffering to ever be alleviated ("existence is suffering" so sayeth the Buddha), I still feel obliged to alleviate the suffering that I can - that is the role that will give me the most satisfaction, that will make my life liveable. This is how I try to approach all moral dilemmas - rather than throw my hands up and say "our side will never win", I find solace in knowing that I am participating in a tradition (a "side") that I am proud to be a part of.

so know, I don't feel very frustrated with the state of the world. It is what it is, and I do my best to position myself in relation to it.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 20 April 2005 21:11 (twenty years ago)

You've described the rock I've been beating my head against my whole life, Ned. My answers to these questions, or my view of them, shifts with my mood between two poles:

a) The World's political and economic systems actively kill tens of millions of people every year, and leave hundreds of millions more living lives defined by misery, pain or emptiness. And every action that doesn't confront that situation, that doesn't try to make it change, is an act of collaboration with the status quo.

b) In a few years I'll disappear into an eternity of nothing. There is no final judgement, there is no objective morality. People who make sacrifices expecting later rewards are robbing themselves unwittingly.

It'd be boringly predictable to say the truth lies somewhere between, but today I feel like both of those positions are untenable (tomorrow I might not). They both represent extremes of anxiety, anyway.

There are obvious truths: the World can be changed by people, it happens all the time. Apartheid ended, the Berlin Wall came down, not through forces of nature but by the actions of people working together. In the West what makes action harder is the absence of a Wall, the absence of Apartheid: we sense an all-pervading wrongness with the way people have to live but there are no tangible targets to gather against. Actions like the protests at G8 summits seem to me to be searches for that tangible enemy, but they're compromised by the fact that the enemy is your neighbour, your family, yourself, unless you focus yourself with the kind of single-mindedness that leads to Savonarolas or Pol Pots more often than benefactors of humanity. We've all seen too many of the historical roads to Hell and the good intentions that paved them.

And even as I say that I'm critiquing myself, wondering how much of this doubt is the result of conditioning, wondering how much religion or conformity has wormed its way into my unconscious against my will. How much slave morality. This post is fast turning into the conclusionless ramble that my life feels like.

A central dilemma then. Without organisation, we can achieve very little. But I've been involved with organisations, and there's something about them that isn't very open to doubt or uncertainty. Effective organisations, maybe effective people, don't much question themselves. By effective meaning effecting change. Sometimes I think human history is the story of the active, effective few inflicting discomfort or misery on the many in pursuit of goals that turn out to be misguided. Which is maybe a necessary condition of humanity.

If you care, maybe misanthropy is never far away. If you don't care, maybe you're hardly really alive. Maybe we're really eloquent excuse makers when it'd be better to be dumb trouble-makers. Maybe we'll get hit by a comet tomorrow.

Investigation continues.

Failin Huxley (noodle vague), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 21:12 (twenty years ago)

uh know = no.
freudian slip there.

x-post

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 20 April 2005 21:13 (twenty years ago)

It is a part of our nature never to be satisfied, except briefly, and then we want more. Schopenhauer said it, Nietzsche said it, Freud said it, Lacan said it, Deleuze & Guattari said it, your mom said it, my mom said it, etc. That said, the declining dollar, the warm-ass winters we've been having, standing on the verge of peak oil, $200,000,000,000 spent in Iraq (and counting) when that money could be so much better spent of education, health care, and eliminating poverty, and the looming elimination of checks and balances in our government, and the national discourse devoted to dodgy issues like bashing gay marriage, bashing abortion, and gossiping about the pretty people, instead of the more pressing emergencies listed, has me nearly frustrated as a citizen as I am sexually frustrated, which is to say, a whole hell of a lot. I'm going to go eat and drink something now.

Mayor Maynot, Wednesday, 20 April 2005 21:22 (twenty years ago)

I guess I just always think its strange when people lament how much worse things are than they were before, how much closer we are to the apocalypse, etc., when, to me, it's clear from history that *the apocalypse is happening all the time*. The world is always on the brink of total destruction, there is always massive genocide, corruption, abuse of power, injustice, slavery, inequality. Things don't get any better or worse, different players just rotate on and off the stage - it's just a lot of costume changes. And if my choice is between playing the juicier, more scene-chewing role of the villain or the more nuanced, difficult role of the hero, by this point in my life I have no doubt which one I'd rather play.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 20 April 2005 21:29 (twenty years ago)

Try to remember that the same coin that is killing, starving, unjusting etc. has a flipside. The World's political and economic systems are allowing many to live who would otherwise not have. It doesn't excuse anything, it's just something to bear in mind while you sip your peon-shafting coffee.

A / F#m / Bm / D (Lynskey), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 21:45 (twenty years ago)

unless it's fair trade.

Maria (Maria), Thursday, 21 April 2005 03:02 (twenty years ago)

With global warming raising the temperature, global dimming lowering it, peak oil rendering our material society useless and cuntoxes like Bush starting wars in order to steal strategic land, the planet's fucked. I really don't like thinking about it anymore.

Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 21 April 2005 03:07 (twenty years ago)

worrying about the state of the world is a luxury i can't afford

()ops (()()ps), Thursday, 21 April 2005 03:11 (twenty years ago)

"the planet will be fine, WE are fucked" -- george carlin

Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 21 April 2005 03:30 (twenty years ago)

This is a brilliant thread, and deserves a better response than I'll be able to string together on precious-little sleep. I've considered this question so many times, and in so many lights that having to put-together an answer is incredibly difficult. See, as a red-blooded American kid raised in the '80s and '90s I, too, was taught a teleologic reckoning of history. If not implicitly, at least in the sense that 'it's wonderful how things are now and glorious how they got to be this way' despite the fact that there have been certain major trade-offs along the way. I mean ... sure, we've eradicated formal slavery in the US, curbed polio, made some sense of welfare, and created the greatest and most complex system of civic works in the history of the planet. We have a probably-passable legal system, too. But I can't get over the fact that (despite claims to the contrary) I just know the limits on my personal freedom, my choice of lifestyle, my choice of occupation, the hyper-regulation of market, an oppressively-enforced capitalism, a terribly selfish nationally-based elitism, a puritanically self-regulating cultural censoring mechanism ... that all of these things are NOT as progressive or free-minded as they were, even, [X] hundred years ago or will be [X] hundred years in the future. And this frustrates me to no end. I think 'this isn't that bad ... ' but I'm not sure if my motivation for saying that is complacency in my postion of (relative) cultural comfort, laziness, or true belief.

Remy (x Jeremy), Thursday, 21 April 2005 03:59 (twenty years ago)

Thank ya Remy, a fine answer (and welcome back, as it were!). And thanks to everyone so far, right down to the Nedolator. :-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 21 April 2005 04:02 (twenty years ago)

There's a Nedolator now?

Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 21 April 2005 04:05 (twenty years ago)

i am not so much frustrated as disappointed. some days, i just feel that we have collectively been asleep during history class. all of those lessons about the evils of religious fanaticism, bigotry, ignorance, and war-mongering seem to have gone in one ear and out the other. or that b/c we in the western world have lived w/ material comfort for so long that we have forgotten things like the great depression (not to mention the absence of material comfort in large swaths of the world) as we rush to dismantle what safety nets and controls that made such material comfort possible in the first place. maybe it is frustrating, b/c all of the lessons are there and no-one seems to give a shit.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 21 April 2005 04:13 (twenty years ago)

Wow, The Nedolator? has really gone ballistic today!

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 21 April 2005 08:04 (twenty years ago)

The world is wonderful. I just wish the people in it (including myself) would think about what they're doing more.

$V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 21 April 2005 08:32 (twenty years ago)

Momus, that's one of the most awesome things I've seen on the Internet.

Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Thursday, 21 April 2005 09:20 (twenty years ago)

It's good, isn't it? We should have a total destruction Net Disaster thread.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 21 April 2005 09:24 (twenty years ago)

Firefox: download plugin
Me: <back>

Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 21 April 2005 09:26 (twenty years ago)

Heheh, random missile Net death! I like.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 21 April 2005 11:48 (twenty years ago)

I'd say I'm not so much frustrated with the "state of the world" as I just am increasingly disappointed with humanity in general. And I don't necessarily think things are getting worse so much as I'm just becoming more aware of how disappointing humanity always has been.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 22 April 2005 00:47 (twenty years ago)

Why can't we have neoliberals to counter the neoconservatives? You know, people who run on platforms that argue education should be free through college, and we should spend more money on education and health care than we do on defense? Our country's pretty much doomed if things keep on keeping on with paranoid criminals like Cheney and DeLay in power.

de tocqueville, Friday, 22 April 2005 15:38 (twenty years ago)

Because liberals are all lazy, superior fuckers. Look at ILX!

Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 22 April 2005 15:47 (twenty years ago)

That's why we need neoliberals, maybe. Psychos as commited to universal health care, paying high school teachers six figures, and free college tuition, as the neoliberals are to making money from killing, keeping the top one percent happy, and misinterpreting the Bible.

de tocqueville, Friday, 22 April 2005 15:55 (twenty years ago)

just got an email from the B P I, so very!

$V£N! (blueski), Friday, 22 April 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

Sorry. That made no sense after "free college tuition." Make that

". . . free college tuition, as the neoCONSERVATIVES are to making money from killing, keeping the top one percent happy, and misinterpreting the Bible."

de tocqueville, Friday, 22 April 2005 16:00 (twenty years ago)

eleven years pass...

do you ever get this thwarted

loudmouth darraghmac ween (darraghmac), Sunday, 11 December 2016 23:55 (nine years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.