Where can I learn the intricacies of TCP/IP and Ethernet?

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I've just become responible for the media oriented Ethernet network at work and it is a mess. It's been built on the just plug things togther nad hope methodology and it really creaks ounder strain. Where can I go to learn about optimising gigabit ethernet networks? Any good books out there. There's two managed switches at the centre of this entaglement and I don't even know where to start as regards optimisng data flows but something's not right. Often we can barely coax 120Mbps out of Gigabit links.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 21 April 2005 12:32 (twenty years ago)

so what kit do you actually have access to? these 2 switches at the middle? msfc?

charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 21 April 2005 13:15 (twenty years ago)

email me your setup

charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 21 April 2005 13:20 (twenty years ago)

Go fibre channel with your SAN.

willdabeast, Thursday, 21 April 2005 13:29 (twenty years ago)

hmm. i'd hit google i'm ashamed to say. often the makers of the switches have a lot of "best practices" type crap too. white papers full of "our stuff is most effectively used if installed like this". use case scenarios, etc.

questions that pop into my mind...

is that 120Mbps when no one else is using the network? are the cables good and laid within the parameters of the usual best practices? (ie not too long or near something that could cause interference if copper, not bent to hell if fiber... etc) are you sure that a) all the machines have gigabit capable hardware and b) are set up in their OS to work as such? (it's easy for a stupid user to actually fudge network settings in windows for example.) are there ways you could balance the traffic by organizing things a little differently? (putting certain machines that need to talk to eachother on the same switch, while keeping machines that don't as separate as convenient, placing certain machines closer to the WAN connection if they're public servers, etc.)

bear in mind i'm talking out of my ass here. i'm a network programmer and not a network systems guy. just throwing some ideas out.
m.

msp (mspa), Thursday, 21 April 2005 13:36 (twenty years ago)

IF your going to break down and read anything, read the manual first.

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 21 April 2005 13:41 (twenty years ago)

Depending on your equipment you could optimize these quite a bit by configuring separate VLANs for groups of chatty equipment. Of course this is assuming your woes are caused by the switches being defaulted in one VLAN, but that seems as good a place to start as any.

Zebra, Alpha Go! (cprek), Thursday, 21 April 2005 13:52 (twenty years ago)

how are you routing between vlans? is your switch layer 3, or are you routering on a stick? is your kit cisco?

charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 21 April 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

I thought this question was about TCP/IP! Damn it.

I'm no help with this shit, I know what an erlang is and I know what a router on a stick is but as far as maximizing throughput on a bitch I have the bare minimum of clues, sorry.

TOMBOT, Thursday, 21 April 2005 15:10 (twenty years ago)

token ring motherfuckers

Open your eyes; you can fly! (ex machina), Thursday, 21 April 2005 16:54 (twenty years ago)

oh my christ

TOMBOT, Thursday, 21 April 2005 17:01 (twenty years ago)

haha

Zebra, Alpha Go! (cprek), Thursday, 21 April 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

Honestly without more config info as gareth suggests it is impossible to isolate the problem though it has been suggested by conversations with a colleague that the first places to look are the speed and type of storage system on the server side and the backplane of the switches. You will already have covered the first option well and thoroughly I suppose.


http://computer.howstuffworks.com/lan-switch.htm

TOMBOT, Thursday, 21 April 2005 17:30 (twenty years ago)

puff puff give! (tokin' ring?!?)
m.

msp (mspa), Thursday, 21 April 2005 17:34 (twenty years ago)

hobbit #2 says, "tolkien ring?!?! another one?! fuck that shit."

m.

msp (mspa), Thursday, 21 April 2005 17:35 (twenty years ago)

http://www-linac.fnal.gov/images/TokenRingPageDoc.gif

TOMBOT, Thursday, 21 April 2005 17:39 (twenty years ago)

FDDI uses a token passing system! back the fuck off hataz

Open your eyes; you can fly! (ex machina), Thursday, 21 April 2005 17:47 (twenty years ago)

Depending on your equipment you could optimize these quite a bit by configuring separate VLANs for groups of chatty equipment.

This looks to be a sound piece of advice. It's not really my area, but ethernet works by having a machine send a message, and if there's already a message going round the network then the new message is simply canned; the machine waits a few milliseconds and tries again, hoping to avoid a collision.

On a heavily loaded network this can impact bandwidth, so the suggestion to sort into various subnets makes sense, isolating your heavy loads into one subnet. Token ring is a bit different, in that to send a message you have to request the token, then you can send a message. This is a bit out of fashion these days though. I've no idea whether or not this tends to lead to greater use of the bandwidth although it sounds as though it would. Means you need a server to handle the token broking though.

I can tell you where you can learn about TCP/IP, but this isn't really what you're asking... You're asking about what's termed the 'data link' layer in the OSI model. TCP/UDP and IP are the two layers above this in the model: network and transport respectively. I'm less sure of where to find info about the data link layer.

KeefW (kmw), Thursday, 21 April 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

Oops, I meant transport and network respectively.

KeefW (kmw), Thursday, 21 April 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

The link layer in the TCP/IP model is stuff like MAC. IP Routes are calculated in the Network layer using ARP. KeefW otm, also. VLANs are a good idea. Chatty equipment = fucking bs.

Open your eyes; you can fly! (ex machina), Thursday, 21 April 2005 18:39 (twenty years ago)

Actually token ring has come back in to fashion with wireless protocols 802.11b. But comparing SONET to a Token Ring LAN is a fucking joke. There's a reason no one uses Token Ring anymore and it's because it's completely unmanageable.

Zebra, Alpha Go! (cprek), Thursday, 21 April 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)

you could set portfast on your access ports, but make sure you dont do it on any switch-to-switch connections, or you'll open youself up to loops.

i'd be really surprised if this network isnt already vlanned, its just, is it vlanned properly. i have seen docile configs in my time. (multiple secondary addresses on the router interface hahahahah, d'oh)

charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 21 April 2005 19:34 (twenty years ago)

I was suspecting that if he inherited the equipment from someone who was just throwing hardware at the problem and praying, the VLAN configuration would be a good first bet.

Zebra, Alpha Go! (cprek), Thursday, 21 April 2005 19:52 (twenty years ago)

It's actually a really simple network. It's a walled garden for moving large video and audio files around. No contact with the outside world except through a 'sheep dip' server, i.e one that's connected to both this LAN and the wider LAN but the networks aren't bridged.

There are two Netgear Layer 3 managed gigabit switches at the heart of it.

flow moves from ingest (100Mbit network cards in machines there), to central storage, (shortly to be Apple XSAN) and from there to the fplayout. Temporarily copying between the SAN and the palyout machines will be controlled by to servers running our playlist management software, this is while the software is ported to OS X). the XSAN will present itself to the network as two NAS heads.

the physical infrastructure is a mess, the last maintainer of it stringing cables any which way between racks and often not even bothering to label them. Plenty are longer than necessary and it is all UTP of one sort or another.

The switches each give me 24 RJ-45 type ports each to play with and 4 SFP type ports.

Cards are a mixture of 3Com and Intel single port giggabit, dual port intel giggabit and dual Apple gigabit on the XSAN

So where do I go from here?

Ed (dali), Friday, 22 April 2005 07:58 (twenty years ago)

the physical infrastructure is a mess, the last maintainer of it stringing cables any which way between racks and often not even bothering to label them. Plenty are longer than necessary and it is all UTP of one sort or another.

That sounds uncannily like the server room here.

(we only have a single rack, but it's still in a godawful mess - patch cables so tangled that it's impossible to get to some sockets without rewiring the ones either side; the odd cable wandering out of the front of the rack; a pile of Kilostream NTUs on top of it, half of which are out of use and waiting to be returned to BT)

caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 22 April 2005 08:04 (twenty years ago)

Playas are all about da Banyan Vines.

Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Friday, 22 April 2005 12:55 (twenty years ago)

IF you are determined to not read the manual, from beginner to not as much beginner:

Networking Foundations
by Patrick Ciccarelli and Christina Falukner ISBN:0782143717

Network Analysis, Architecture & Design, Second Edition
by James D. McCabe ISBN:1558608877

High-Performance Data Network Design: Design Techniques and Tools
by Tony Kenyon ISBN:1555582079


Enjoy

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 22 April 2005 13:05 (twenty years ago)

I shall see if they are on o'reilly safari bookshelf.

Ed (dali), Friday, 22 April 2005 13:06 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

i have a router with two ethernet sockets, both of which are currently in use. there is also a usb socket, which isn't used. i just got a network hard-drive which i need to connect, via ethernet cable - is it possible to get a 'splitter', so two ethernet cables share the socket, or a thingum to convert the ethernet cable into a usb cable, to use the usb socket?

stevie, Monday, 31 March 2008 13:57 (eighteen years ago)

You need an ethernet switch to connect more than one device to the LAN port on your router, should cost much more than a tenner.

Ed, Monday, 31 March 2008 14:00 (eighteen years ago)

Ethernet to usb thingamajigs do exist though, so if you have that port free, it could be worth a try

StanM, Monday, 31 March 2008 14:04 (eighteen years ago)

Not necessarily the one I linked to, that's not very cheap.

StanM, Monday, 31 March 2008 14:04 (eighteen years ago)

thanks ed and stan - just found cheap ethernet to usb thingummy, if that doesn't work i shall grab an ethernet switch...

stevie, Monday, 31 March 2008 14:06 (eighteen years ago)

I doubt the usb socket on the router will work that way. For starters is it rectangular (outbound) or square (inbound). Even if this is the former, I doubt it will support a usb to ethernet device.

Ed, Monday, 31 March 2008 14:16 (eighteen years ago)

"thanks ed and stan - just found cheap ethernet to usb thingummy, if that doesn't work i shall grab an ethernet switch..."

This will not in any way work ever. I'm not going to explain it will never work just never.

You need a 4/8 port switch and uplink it to yr router.

Jarlrmai, Monday, 31 March 2008 16:05 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, ok! Just thought it might, but yeah.

StanM, Monday, 31 March 2008 16:09 (eighteen years ago)

think of it like this

yr router

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/201596371/wall_socket_2_Gang_switched_UK_standard_.summ.jpg

a switch and cable with uplink

http://www.skevi.com/images/3750020.jpg

Jarlrmai, Monday, 31 March 2008 16:12 (eighteen years ago)

wicked. i has ordered one of those too. if anyone wants an ethernet-usb thingum let me know (i always know my initial cheap purchase will be usurped in usefulness by the slightly-more-expenseive version)

stevie, Monday, 31 March 2008 16:22 (eighteen years ago)

seven years pass...

Rocking it ethernet style on my laptop, download speeds are so much faster than on wifi.

obstacle illusion (calstars), Wednesday, 26 August 2015 00:17 (ten years ago)


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