Long post, advice thread: When should you leave the one you love?

#11 does not compute though, you said she wants to leave you, so why would you be worried abt suicide?

Also don't rely on any kind of temporary split - they never end up that way, even if you got back together later things would be fundamentally changed.

Seven years is a long time. It doesn't strike me AT ALL from your post that you're willing to throw that all away just yet. So don't.

Well, her wanting to leave me amounts to this: she said she didn't know whether to do what she felt like doing (stay with me) or what she would think she should do if she were an observer (leave). I said, um, probably follow the logical choice and besides I am not happy just now also. I mean, I called her bluff.

Re Temporary splits, I know, but my position now is that I would rather regret doing what I thought might be healthy for us both than ploughing on and eventually have some festering resentment foisted on her that she would never deserve.

See, I think that's what I'd like. But...

...I reckon if I slept with a few other people (even before I met her) we wouldn't be having this problem now. Now, I want to, even though I know it would be a dead end. I just need to get rid of the notion. Disgusting, I know.

Sorry for the rant.

You can either do it the 1950's way or the 2005 way.

1) The 1950's way was Suck It Up, like an adult. Shit happens. And then things get better, hopefully. All those people that celebrate their 25th and 60th anniversaries didn't have all those years with Peaches and Cream. They went through depression, poverty, loss of sex drive, unemployment, death of a child/parent, etc. But, they clung together, under the belief that TOGETHER, they were stronger than apart. In the end, the ones that stayed together, usually have a smile on their face for believing in the "unit" than the "solo".

2) The 2005 way is Immediate Gratification. Things aren't as Lovey-Dovey as they were when you met, so dump each other. Or.....the "Guys Way of Thinking": convince your lover/wife that you want to 'stick a bookmark' in your relationship, and you want to 'play and stray' and then have a 'safe haven' to crawl back to when you've got as much pussy as you think you've missed out on. Millions of X-Gen folks do this: Hook up, break up, Hook up, Break up...and I guess they finally STAY "hooked up" when they're too old or worn out to give a fuck again. But, you're living with a stranger: both YOU and the person you're living with. Neither of you has a past beyond a couple of years, you continue to 'flee' when things get tight, and the underlying problem within YOU never gets fixed. You're with someone, but always alone.

So, if you want to do the RIGHT THING, here's my advice:

1)Either drop the drugs or admit to them. Let her know what's going on with your substance abuse.

2) Either break up with her so you can Lust/Fuck others, or quit your lusting and concentrate on HER, again. It never ceases to amaze me that a guy will get fat, be on drugs, stop having sex with his regular partner, (who complains about the following) and when he breaks up, he loses weight, gets off the drugs, pays attention to the NEW LOVER (for awhile) until he gets comfortable and can go back to his old habits. If a guy spent HALF of the time, money and attention on the old partner as he does the affair, there wouldn't be the NEED to have an affair.

If you met someone new, and treated them the EXACT WAY that you're treating your 7 year old partner, HOW THE HELL DO YOU THINK THEY'D PUT UP WITH YOU????? Depressed? No sex? On Drugs? I bet you anything, that if you were hitting the bricks to find some new snatch, there'd be a bounce in your step, a smile on your face and a hard-on in your pants...all the things that your present girlfriend would like to see, again.

3) Counciling: For either YOU or the BOTH of you. Why are you on drugs? What are you trying to escape in your life that you don't want to fix? Her suicide attempt is also worthy of seeing a therapist; it means that she feels that she isn't 'whole' without another half.

So, you have three choices: Leave and don't fix YOUR problems, Stay and try to fix your problems, or Stay, try to fix your problems (like a responsible adult) and if they can't be fixed, leave with your head held high. But don't use your girlfriend as your excuse for NOT being mentally healthy; that burden falls on you.

That "maybe" has a lot to it.

That's exactly what I said, earlier! Yet, couples that are logging double-digit anniversaries passed through the problems to the other side.

And as A Nairn says, "Why is miserableness an absolute destiny?" If yars got his shit together and fixed his problems and helped his girlfriend mend the relationship, things could turn out WELL, even BETTER than before. I've seen it with dedicated couples. It works.

And who doesn't much like himself.

The semi-addiction was not caused by the relationship. The self-dislike may or may not have some roots in the relationship, but surely has other roots too.

Let's say that you are, actually, ready to deal with "it" (the addiction and the self-dislike) - like, right now! - that your posts are really about your being in trouble, not just your relationship being in trouble. In which case, work on yourself (in other words, get help), and let decisions about the relationship wait for six months or a year.

And if you're not even liking the drugs much any more, then for chrissake cut them out, and ask for her help in cutting them out. People tend to think that asking for help from a loved one puts a burden on them. It's usually a compliment, actually.

"why can't all relationships be '50s relationships? except for the really sick, destructive ones.
-- reno sweeney (theundergroundhom...), May 2nd, 2005."

Actually, reno sweeney, they COULD, if people really wanted them to be. Excepting the sick, destructive ones, all it takes is patience, forgiveness, listening, and laughter...in whatever order is needed.

It's when we lose site of the specialness that made us fall in love to begin with, that we lose the love. How often do we "date" our partners, by making reservations, for no other reason than being with them, and getting dressed up, smelling and looking good? Or a back rub or a card laid out on the bed, for no other reason than to say, "I love you?" Not often enough.

My Grandparents were married for 67 years and my Grandmother had taped to the kitchen cabinet a magazine article that was curled and yellowed with age. When she died, it was one of the first things of hers that I claimed as my own. I don't know it's source; she carefully cut all the margins and ads from around it. But, the sentiment bears witness to the strength of their relationship, which saw them through the Great Depression, WWI, WW2, the Korean War with a loss of a son, Diabetes, and Alzheimer's. One was strong when the other couldnt' be. One listened when the other talked. And they lasted, until the end.

Here's the article:

"How to Love Your Pet

1) When you wake up each morning, pat them on the head, offer them something fresh to drink and some of their favorite food.

2) When you go out for lunch, occasionally bring home something special for them, like a small treat that they delight in or a new toy to play with.

3) When you come home at night, be sure to spend quality time with them. Go for a walk or have a small play session where the two of you enjoy laughing and having silly fun together. If you’re still too tired, take them in your arms when you lie down on the sofa and give them a good snuggle along with soothing pats.

4) If they do something bad, like spill their food or make a small mess, wipe it up, and move on. They won’t understand your anger, anyway. Live in the moment.

5) Remember why you got your pet in the first place: companionship, love, being able to do things outside and in the home together.

6) Now…substitute your Loved Ones name instead of your pet’s and you have the steps for a happy relationship!"

They say a 'dog' is Man's Best Friend. Who wouldn't be if they were treated like the above suggestions?

I agree. Thanks everyone. Every reply has been useful in some way. I wish Andrew had said more.

Couples Therapy - helped a lot.
Individual Therapy - helped for depression.
This book, which is known as "the bible" for relationships:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0609805797/qid=1115042516/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-1071727-1285405?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

We are still/back together, and stronger than ever. We have way more trust and we communicate better than we ever did before. It was very hard for about a year, after we went through therapy. (So it was even harder before that.) But we have decided that we are meant to be together. That may seem naive or sappy .. but we're happy.

I think if you ever loved someone, you can love them again.

I just want to let you know, yars, that positive change is [u]completely[/u] possible. I know. I went through it.

After two failed marriages, (one 13 years, one 12 years) where 80-100% of the problems were because of MY fucked up head, I got myself into therapy for SIX years and had a Dating Moratoreum. My therapist put me through my paces: there was homework, reports that I had to make, diaries I had to keep. She did [b]not[/b] want to sit on her arse and listen to whiners complain about their fucked up life: she wanted serious results from people SERIOUS about changing their patterns.

I also recommend [b]something's[/b] The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work : A Practical Guide from the Country's Foremost Relationship Expert. My copy is dog-eared from the use it gets.

And the upside of all of this, yars, is that I couldn't repair the damage I inflicted on my first two spouses, but...I'm in an amazingly healthy and loving relationship NOW (5 years and counting!) where I practice all the things I learned throughout the years.

Believe me, getting mentally healthy and having love to come home to each night, was worth EVERY SINGLE CENT AND HOUR that I put into it.

Good luck. I hope you take to heart some of the profound wisdom that's in your thread.

Forgive me for getting sappy. Also, my life got a lot better when I realize that a relationship that's six months, one year, five years or older is simply not the same as one that's a week or a month old. Relationships mature, go through changes and crises just like individuals, so give yourself a little room.

No, I just went to bed for a while... and now I've just been out for a while. Again, lots of useful stuff here. Special thanks to you, Psychokitty.

Specifically inspired by Douglas' post, I suggested we have a talk. She wasn't too keen, she wasn't sure I'd have anything new to say, suggested I put it in writing. Not as cold as it sounds - I can be infuriating to talk to about such things, vague, contradictory, long preambles and pauses for thought. So I am trying to put down, right now, EXACTLY what I am thinking.

PS: In case it isn't obvious, the name 'yars' doesn't have anything to do with who I am. I just banged my hand down on the keyboard as a substitute for typing 'logged out'.

She went out for a couple of hours, and I started writing this thing. It started off okay, but gradually I am getting off my face and it is becoming more rambling. So I'm thinking I might have to finish in the morning.

Then she phones just now, saying, "I was about to come home, but then [guy who she finds sexy & who find her sexy] invited me to go to his house to watch a video."

Me: "So you're gonna be late."

Her: "Yeah, is that okay?"

Me: "Yeah, it's okay. See you later then?"

Her: "You sure it's okay?"

Me: "Yeah, no problem."

Her: "Okay, bye. I love you."

Me: "Bye"

And actually it is okay. I don't mind.

I didn't make it clear in the original post that we agreed two weeks ago to split up. That is, I wasn't writing wondering whether we should split up, but instead wondering whether we'd arranged to do so too lightly.

Also, I must add, if she sleeps with this guy it is not such a big deal. We have never been too uptight about sleeping with other people.

What this has practically amounted to, however, is her sleeping with other people who knew of my existence but saw that as no obstacle. She, nearly always, told me about it and I didn't mind and sometimes it turned me on.

Meanwhile I have slept with no one else, because the whole business seemed full of lies that I couldn't make myself tell.

It is a gender thing partly, maybe. (I mean, boys don't care that she's with me. Girls, I maybe wrongly imagine, would not be so eager to be involved in someone else's cheating/fucked up relationship.)

At the same time: if I fucked her regularly, she would not want anyone else. I really believe her in this. Also, if I didn't fuck her regularly, but still just told her not to fuck anyone else, she wouldn't. Seriously, she wouldn't.

But I always, always would want other people.

What is the answer?

It is sad.

(Of course, maybe she can she say wants 'only me' because she's been free to find out if that's the case.)

From my point of view: even if she agrees with it in principle, if I fuck someone else she is gonna be sad and cry even if she's not gonna get mad at me for it. She is gonna be sad & cry. When I say I'm okay with her doing stuff I mean it (even if my meaning it might be a result of depression & maybe even wanting a way out where I would feel less to blame).

Also, I could not approach somebody else with the proposition, "I am in an open relationship, you wanna join in?" Who would be up for that?

She came home something like two hours ago. She didn't fuck this guy, really she didn't. She is totally to be trusted when it comes to these matters. She probably will in the future. But I don't care.

She asked me if I'd finished what I was writing. I said, no, I'll finish in the morning. Somehow a row kicked off, though not immediately, and (I'm not exaggerating) she got a sharp knife from the cutlery draw, pointed it at me & I locked myself on the balcony. These are our problems in a nutshell. Then she put it to her own throat & I came out from the balcony. Then she threw the knife on the floor, and said, "Get out of the house now or I'm calling the police". Then I kind of whined a bit & she said, "I'm going to the shower. While I'm in there, finish what you were were writing or leave".

I kind of jabbed out a couple more paragraphs. I would've liked to expand, but the gist was there.

Anyway, she read what I'd written. She was really touched by the first paragraph. Exactly what she hoped I'd write. (Actually, she said, exactly what she would have wanted me to say a year ago). But the other paragraphs ended it. It is over.

Personally, the knife ended it for me, also, I am thinking in this daft moment. It was pantomime. No one was actually gonna get hurt. But I cannot have a life that includes these scenes.

xpost