Why Aren't There Any Tories On ILX?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Wrong demographic? Just lurking? We have a couple of US Republicans and certainly some right-wing US posters, but looking at the ILXit poll the centre is as far as it goes in Britain.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:01 (twenty years ago)

Andrew Sullivan's general thought:

They've botched several elections without even laying down a clear ideological direction for the party. And the trouble is: their ranks are thin. The younger generation of potential Tory MPs have either emigrated to America, or gone into the private sector, or become depressed about future prospects as a Tory back-bencher, or moved into the Labour camp. The remainder tend to maintain, I'm told, an upper-class aura that still rankles in class conscious Britain.

So either they're too busy working to post here or they're Labour now. Yay! Uh...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

Jel said he was a tory!

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:06 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, people ask about this on the 'tories' thread, a bit.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:07 (twenty years ago)

Many tories are secret tories, too! If they don't tell opinion pollsters, they definitely won't tell a hostile ILX.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:08 (twenty years ago)

i think a major difference is that it is still deeply unfashionable to be right-wing in this country, in a way that is different to america (for example, the large number of young/punk/rightwing people on myspace, i haven't seen an equivalent for england). yes, you might say myspace isnt representative, but, neither is ilx

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:08 (twenty years ago)

Tories

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:08 (twenty years ago)

Tories are too busying doing what they should be doing to earn their crust to be posting on message boards at 4 in the afternoon.

― andyjack (andyjack), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:08 (twenty years ago)

also, the elected 'left' in this country seem to have sidestepped being seen as stuffy/handwringy/crybaby/bleedingheart, in a way the 'left' in america were so unable to do in the last election there

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:09 (twenty years ago)

last night on the daily show they said there were no culture wars in Britain because everyone seems gay!

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:13 (twenty years ago)

yeah, everyone in america knows that everyone in the UK are homos!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:17 (twenty years ago)

daily show's stealing noize bored jokes, damn.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:20 (twenty years ago)

"jokes"

― YEAH DUDE LIKE RAD ROFFLE, Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:22 (twenty years ago)

Eventually everyone in the US will be homos too. But it will take about 200 years.

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:23 (twenty years ago)

You misspelt Hummous.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:24 (twenty years ago)

devo was right.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:24 (twenty years ago)

only we DO have culture wars! they are quite different and less openly religious than the US culture wars, but they're out there alright. search: 'daily mail'.

― N_RQ, Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:25 (twenty years ago)

I would rather vote Tory than Lab, but we have a splendid local Lib-Dem MP, who gets my vote.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:30 (twenty years ago)

The younger generation of potential Tory MPs have either emigrated to America...

I would just like it noted for the record that I am not a potential Tory MP.

― X-PAT (nordicskilla), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:42 (twenty years ago)

don't we have enough homegrown american right-wing shitheads? why do we need any foreign ones over here?!?

― loudobbsbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:43 (twenty years ago)

You say that now...

x-post

― Leon Federline (Ex Leon), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:43 (twenty years ago)

Adam begins his political ambitions here, like John Peel and his radio ambitions.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:46 (twenty years ago)

there was a slick young american conservative on the election coverage last night. the volume was turned down so i didn't catch all of what he said, but apparently he had advised on the campaign at some point. i thought i had gotten away from those people!

― lauren (laurenp), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:49 (twenty years ago)

Hey, I never said "I'm a tory" (there's a whole load of conotations there, plus I try not to label myself), just that I've voted Conservative a few times, mainly at council or euro elections. I voted Green today anyhow, I voted for them at the last general election too, and I think at the one before that, but I can't be sure. I doubt if I'd be inclined to vote Liberal or Labour.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:50 (twenty years ago)

Why not Liberal?

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 5 May 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

I don't like yellow, plus I'm not sold on local Y tax, and they are a bit too Euro-eager for my liking.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 5 May 2005 15:31 (twenty years ago)

i voted tories the last time round.. i didn't want a huge majority in government and i didn't know what to do.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 5 May 2005 15:33 (twenty years ago)

I'm sorry jel!

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 5 May 2005 15:39 (twenty years ago)

It's okay Teeny!

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 5 May 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

move to the USA, jel -- esp. since yer not a tory!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 5 May 2005 15:43 (twenty years ago)

I'm Tory. It seems redundant to talk about politics on ILX, when the majority of the posts here are so vastly in favour of the Left, and hence discussions converge around shared broad-Left tenets.

― AdrianB (AdrianB), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

I don't mean that in a pejorative sense, but it seems that because there is a critical mass of Left-wing posters here, however you define it, discussions quite naturally anchor around Left perspectives. So, to me, it seems pointless to really contribute, as I really have no innate sympathy toward those viewpoints, although it's interesting to watch from an anthropological POV.

― AdrianB (AdrianB), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

Well I would be interested to hear your views purely in the interests of a more balanced argument.

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

I have voted Tory in council & London Assembly elections.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)

It is often worthwhile sparring with the US rightists. I don't think anyone has changed their views but a well reasoned argument is always welcome.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:33 (twenty years ago)

Bless your heart, Ed, but as Dan and I have noticed, when it comes to subjects such as, say, religion, you seem awfully quick to judge...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:41 (twenty years ago)

Who are the US rightists on ILX? I can only think of a couple of libertarians.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

I have a mental block when it comes to religion; i.e. there can be no reasoned argument for religion.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:43 (twenty years ago)

Adam begins his political ambitions here, like John Peel and his radio ambitions

Peel started on ilx?

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

And besides it is a personal matter and should be kept in the home and firmly away from politics and the business of state.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:46 (twenty years ago)

xpost -- His time travelling abilities are underrated. I believe he posted as Conor Smedley.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:47 (twenty years ago)

The trouble though, SteveM, is that discussions which centre on politics on ILX often presuppose or rely on a pre-existing knowledge of Labour, Lib Dem, Socialist policies and/or thought, or at least a broadly Left-wing outlook, be it hard left or centre-left or all points inbetween. I do have some knowledge of that, but it's nowhere near as detailed as for Tory thought, which I keep up-to-date with reading The Spectator etc. So I feel - not due to the posters themselves - that there is a problem for me in basically "understanding" the threads.

As far as the initial question goes: I think it's basically due to demographics - I don't know very many Tories at all of my age (23), and ILX broadly draws from the 20-40 age range, groups not normally right-wing. Add to that the fact that right-wingery is often treated as something alien (all of the post Bush re-election threads for instance), then I think the lack of right-wing posters becomes explicable.

x-post

― AdrianB (AdrianB), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:49 (twenty years ago)

And I can't think of any real right-wing US posters - Dee voted for Kerry last time. Maybe Nairn?

― AdrianB (AdrianB), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:51 (twenty years ago)

Don and daziz are more libertarian (and can speak for themselves on the matter, I'm sure).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:55 (twenty years ago)

Most people here don't think of themselves AS Labour or Lib Dem or Green though, they just vote for them. I'm no expert on politics but enjoy and am in interested in reading different opinions on the subject provided they're relatively thoughtful (not just 'Blair/Howard is a cunt rah rah rah'). Pledging alleigance to a particular party is not at all appealing to me because within each one there are ideas and views floating around that I agree and disagree with. TS: Backbenchers vs Fencesitters...

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:55 (twenty years ago)

Oh wait, duh -- keyth m and Roger Adultery.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:55 (twenty years ago)

I thought Roger self-identified as Libertarian, not as Republican?

― AdrianB (AdrianB), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

That's the thing. Voting for the party doesn't necessarily make you allieged to that party e.g. jel voting Tory. So I'm interested in whether Adrian referred to himself as Tory purely on that basis or because he genuinely subscribes lock stock and barrel to the majority of ideas that may constitute a Conservative ethos.

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:05 (twenty years ago)

He might've! Let's see if he notices this, but I thought he was more a straight-up Bush supporter, could be wrong.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:05 (twenty years ago)

Not that this is a witch-hunt or anything (honest).

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:06 (twenty years ago)

yeah don's the only real libertarian i can think of on ilx, the other 'libertarians' are more republicans who don't have the balls to admit (to themselves even maybe) that they're republicans. between roger adultery and nairn you pretty much have the republican base.

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:08 (twenty years ago)

From a US perspective, tories aren't that far right. Our two party section of the political spectrum definitely doesn't line up with the left/right of the UK.

― mike h. (mike h.), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:09 (twenty years ago)

I do, as you put it, "subscribe lock stock and barrel". I'm no floating voter, in fact I genuinely couldn't see myself voting for any other party. Partly I think this is due to self-image - when I became interested in politics, I just found Tory policies appealed viscerally to me, in much the same way as Socialism appeals to someone like, say, Ed. I have a sympathy with the Tory aims - low-tax, broad support for "the market" - which I can't see in any other party to the same extent.

I should put this in perspective, at my college at Oxford, a fairly Left-leaning one, out of about 250 undergraduates, only about 10 of us were "out" Tories, although I suspect several more undergraduates to have been undeclared supporters.

― AdrianB (AdrianB), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:10 (twenty years ago)

And no, from the US perspective, the Tories aren't Right at all. But if I was an American, I would have voted for Bush, but that's an entirely different issue.

― AdrianB (AdrianB), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:12 (twenty years ago)

Wow. Now I am REALLY wondering what goes through your mind when you read ILE political threads!

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:17 (twenty years ago)

But anyway, I hope you feel a bit more informed now that when the thread started, Steve. Hope to see you on the Fantasy Football thread soonly.

― AdrianB (AdrianB), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:25 (twenty years ago)

I think in theory I support Libertarian principles "One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state". But in my heart, I know it won't work, you'll always need the state to provide services, welfare, legislate etc. It's kinda like the model of Perfect Competition. The invisible hand of the market will always slap somebody somewhere.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:37 (twenty years ago)

It would be maybe interesting, if there were a thread for ILX right-leaners, with no-one leftish allowed to post at all. A sort of free-market non-creepy aja/dante board.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:43 (twenty years ago)

Roger Adultery was pretty clear that he had never voted until he voted for Badnerik, I'm pretty sure.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:44 (twenty years ago)

"One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state"

Very rarely do libertarians in the right wing us gun wielding sense stick to this. And besides I don't think this is a particularly good definition of Libertarian anyway. The Pure dictionary definition is:

'One who holds to the doctrine of free will'

but a necessary extension of this into the political world leads to a society based on free will and humanity is naturally social. True libertarianism should come from the left not from the narrow minded 'I should be free to protect what's mine' camp but from the 'We should be free to reconstruct society in a way that we see fit'.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:49 (twenty years ago)

I mean, I'm not completely anti-state at all, there is a role for the state to play, to look after those who can't look after themselves, I just believe the role of the state should be reduced from its present level. I'm no Objectivist!

A Right-wing only thread would be interesting, yes.

― AdrianB (AdrianB), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:52 (twenty years ago)

Do the tories have think tanks that throw around words like "hegemony" completely seriously, or do they still use the ever-popular "empire?" Inquiring minds want to know.

..to look after those who can't look after themselves, I just believe the role of the state should be reduced..

This is pretty much the opposite of the current actual actions of the US right wing!

― mike h. (mike h.), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:55 (twenty years ago)

Ha, I suppose you're right (no pun intended). As an aside, and to expand on my previous point, I would have voted for Bush, based on the belief in his foreign policy, that the Iraq war, although badly-planned and mismanaged, was the best thing to do in the long run, as a way of cowing enemies of America.

But let's not turn this into an Iraq thread.

― AdrianB (AdrianB), Thursday, 5 May 2005 18:00 (twenty years ago)

even american lefties love british righties for not tossing around all of that bible-banging jesus crap that the GOP loves so much.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 5 May 2005 18:40 (twenty years ago)

By so many signifiers, I should very well be a Tory. My brother is a Tory. I just think there's too much Hampstead Socialist in my family background to ever actually do it. Plus I find so many of their policies revolting. I don't know.

― Lapdog Shoesnog (kate), Friday, 6 May 2005 11:17 (twenty years ago)

what are some of the signifiers?

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 6 May 2005 11:17 (twenty years ago)

You know, pro-hunting, pro-fee paying schools, etc. blah blah.

― Lapdog Shoesnog (kate), Friday, 6 May 2005 11:31 (twenty years ago)

I don't like tories.

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 6 May 2005 11:32 (twenty years ago)

thanks for the update.

― $V£N! (blueski), Friday, 6 May 2005 11:34 (twenty years ago)

I still don't like tories.

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 6 May 2005 11:35 (twenty years ago)

Why bother with the social embarrassment of being a Tory when you can already vote for a right wing party like New Labour? Seems pretty obvious to me.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 6 May 2005 11:38 (twenty years ago)

I like posting on the internet.

― $V£N! (blueski), Friday, 6 May 2005 12:20 (twenty years ago)

well, some people don't.

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 6 May 2005 12:22 (twenty years ago)

three years pass...

Christine Hamilton has changed her name by deed poll to "Mrs British Battleaxe" to promote an online deed poll provider

― DavidM, Tuesday, 10 February 2009 20:47 (seventeen years ago)

I don't like tories.
― RJG (RJG), Friday, 6 May 2005 Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
thanks for the update.
― $V£N! (blueski), Friday, 6 May 2005 Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
I still don't like tories.
― RJG (RJG), Friday, 6 May 2005

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 10 February 2009 23:00 (seventeen years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.