How Art Made The World

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Did anyone else watch this last night?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/howart/programmes.shtml

I admit, I only started watching it to perve over Dr. Nigel Spivey but blimey, it turned out to be very interesting indeed! Talking about art and representationalism and how sculpture has *always* distorted body image from the Venus de Willendorf on (Dr. Spivey's dulcet tones noting on "enourmous breasts"). And how the actual distortions are expressions of culture.

Next week, he talks about pictures and after that, about symbols. And winks knowingly at the camera while walking through Egypt being turned into a living heiroglyph, his hair flopping and his Cambridge accent so lugubrious... ::swoon::

Anyway! Yes! Let's talk about How Art Made The World.

The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 11:11 (twenty years ago)

Oh, there's a test in there, too, that you can take if you go back to the homepage.

The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 11:16 (twenty years ago)

It just told me that I like Japanese woodblock art best. Well, duh!

The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 11:23 (twenty years ago)

Here's my full results:

Thank you for completing the experiment

Your results
Your favourite type of art is Japanese ukiyo-e.

In the personality profile you had a high intellectualism score, which suggests you like to think about abstract ideas and have a creative imagination.

Find out more about your personality test results

People who are the same age and sex as you are most likely to prefer Impressionism

People who also score highly in your dominant personality trait are most likely to prefer Japanese ukiyo-e

Impressionism? UGH! But computer programmers like Japanese art, it is Proven By Science. Heh.

The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 11:27 (twenty years ago)

Baby seagulls! Lollysticks!

Madchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 11:38 (twenty years ago)

That was the cutest thing ever. Nigel Spivey reclining sexily on a beach while playing with baby gulls and lollies.

The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 11:41 (twenty years ago)

I found the whole thing really interesting, although I did get annoyed by the tantalising snippet of What Was Found By The Spearfishing Italian, which they didn't return to for about 20 minutes.

Madchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 11:44 (twenty years ago)

I thought he was a ponce. I wish people would just tell you things instead of it having to be all about UNLOCKING THE INCREDIBLE MYSTERY TO THE MOST IMPORTANT SECRET IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD etc...

I liked the seagulls and the spearfishing Italian bits though.

Cathy (Cathy), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 11:45 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, the spearfishing Italian seemed to be a bit mis-placed in terms of plot. But I LIKE the way that he reveals it all a bit at a time like watching a MYSTERY!!! unfold. It's like mathematical proofs or something. Do you see? DO YOU SEE?!?!? Queue Eeeee Deeee!

The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 11:47 (twenty years ago)

Your favourite type of art is Abstract.

In the personality profile you had a high intellectualism score, which suggests you like to think about abstract ideas and have a creative imagination.

People who are the same age and sex as you are most likely to prefer Cubism

People who also score highly in your dominant personality trait are most likely to prefer Japanese ukiyo-e.

$V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 11:55 (twenty years ago)

That test said I had a high agreeableness score, which is the best thing a personality test has ever said to me. My favourite type of art is Impressionism, it claims, which is not completely untrue.

Cathy (Cathy), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:29 (twenty years ago)

It just looked like a load of BLIMEY! LOOK AT THOSE MASSIVE MELONS! to me.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:34 (twenty years ago)

Just, but it's Nigel Spivey saying it.

The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:34 (twenty years ago)

yes, some interesting bits and places but the dragged-out "could this help explain this?"-"the answer to this may lie somewhere else" style means that they never really have to make any effort to tell us that much or find out actual things.

I mean, come on, is it really so surprising that humans, throughout the ages, have been obsessed with human form? no. he said it more than five times, though, in "this isn't entirely obvious"/"you have probably not yet realised" ways.

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:39 (twenty years ago)

Well, yes, he is fond of repetition of "Look, I'm saying something really important!!!" bits. I wonder who actually wrote the script.

The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:43 (twenty years ago)

That test keeps presenting me with the same page in the personality test; perhaps they're trying to ascertain how irritable I am. Turns out I like Cubist best of all the arts, just ahead of kickboxing and cake-icing.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:46 (twenty years ago)

Your favourite type of art is Cubism.

In the personality profile you had a high intellectualism score, which suggests you like to think about abstract ideas and have a creative imagination.

People who are the same age and sex as you are most likely to prefer Cubism

People who also score highly in your dominant personality trait are most likely to prefer Japanese ukiyo-e

I've been told I like cubism. I don't know anything ABOUT cubism! Or Japanese ukiyo-e, for that matter

Arty people, cubism S/D please. And Japanese ukiyo-e S/D while you're there, please.

How odd.

Come Back Johnny B (Johnney B), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:55 (twenty years ago)

don't bother; it's all pish

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:56 (twenty years ago)

did anyone, taking this test, get anything other than cubism and ukiyo-e?

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:56 (twenty years ago)

Am the only one who got stuck? Does that make me a Stuckist?

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:57 (twenty years ago)

They should hang you in Villa Stuck!

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:58 (twenty years ago)

Turns out I like Cubist best of all the arts, just ahead of kickboxing and cake-icing.

I had you down as a Spongecraft man.

$V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:01 (twenty years ago)

no actual sticking, here, but the pages of the personality test all seemed quite similar.

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:01 (twenty years ago)

I couldn't be arsed to finish the personality part. It told me I liked secular Islamic art. There was one thing from that category that Duchamp seems to have borrowed from!

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:14 (twenty years ago)

"Your favourite type of art is secular Islamic. In the personality profile you had a high intellectualism score, which suggests you like to think about abstract ideas and have a creative imagination. People who are the same age and sex as you are most likely to prefer Impressionism. People who also score highly in your dominant personality trait are most likely to prefer Japanese ukiyo-e."

Interesting. I would never have said this, but actually I think my sensibility does lean to Islamic secular. I've been married to a muslim, and the urban environments I like have an Islamic feel (Brick Lane in London, Kreuzberg in Berlin). I might have fallen into the ukiyo-e camp on art if the examples they'd provided had been less hackneyed and a bit more splashy and strange, or contained less blue-green and more pink-red.

And yes, Ken, the first Islamic painting looks exactly like something from Duchamp's Green Box!

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:30 (twenty years ago)

I got the exact same result as Kate.
Though I thought it would tell me that I like abstract best (since I've got eight pieces of abstract art hanging in my house).

Greig (treefell), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:35 (twenty years ago)

Oh, nutbar, I was out last night. Of course, I ran into a cousin of a friend who is an artist and ended up discussing art, culture, capitalisation and everything inbetween over booze.

The Irrelevant Man (Negativa) (Barima), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:38 (twenty years ago)

I liked Egyptian Spivey. His eye was quite freaky. I've been thinking about this programme and it can be summed thusly:

Willendorf's tits and arse are like red stripes on a lolly
Egyptians were conformists
Greeks took Egyptian sculpture and ran with it

Not enough Interesting Facts to merit a whole hour of telly but then I got lots of Interesting Facts from University Challenge and that doesn't have baby seagulls, so the evening averaged out quite well.

Madchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 14:03 (twenty years ago)

I didn't see the programme, but:

Your favourite type of art is Cubism.

In the personality profile you had a high intellectualism score, which suggests you like to think about abstract ideas and have a creative imagination.

People who are the same age and sex as you are most likely to prefer Japanese ukiyo-e.

People who also score highly in your dominant personality trait are most likely to prefer Japanese ukiyo-e.

I think Cubism is about right - I may have got Abstract but there were a couple of examples that I thought were below par (one had too much pink in it).

emil.y (emil.y), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 15:36 (twenty years ago)

Your favourite type of art is Impressionism.

In the personality profile you had a high intellectualism score, which suggests you like to think about abstract ideas and have a creative imagination.

People who are the same age and sex as you are most likely to prefer Cubism

People who also score highly in your dominant personality trait are most likely to prefer Japanese ukiyo-e

I am fairly fond of impressionism, but I really like minimal art and Dada more than anything.

That's not cocaine! It's Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Mantra), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 16:41 (twenty years ago)

What if your favorite type of art were Mannerism- were there some long-necked Pontormos or steely-eyed Bronzinos that I missed somewhere in there?

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

Your favourite type of art is secular Islamic.

In the personality profile you had a high intellectualism score, which suggests you like to think about abstract ideas and have a creative imagination.

People who are the same age and sex as you are most likely to prefer Cubism

People who also score highly in your dominant personality trait are most likely to prefer Japanese ukiyo-e

I thought most of those secular Islamic pieces were Dadaist or Surrealist things.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 16:59 (twenty years ago)

I thought they were, too, in a way.

That's not cocaine! It's Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Mantra), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 17:06 (twenty years ago)

I guess we learned something that had been hitherto obscured- that when they went to those African Oceanic Art Museums, the surrealists spent a lot of time in the secular Islamic wing, if not sneaking into the Middle Eastern museum next door.

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 17:13 (twenty years ago)

our favourite type of art is Cubism.

In the personality profile you had a high intellectualism score, which suggests you like to think about abstract ideas and have a creative imagination.

People who are the same age and sex as you are most likely to prefer Japanese ukiyo-e

People who also score highly in your dominant personality trait are most likely to prefer Japanese ukiyo-e

So far, 9537 people have taken part in this experiment.

jocelyn (Jocelyn), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 17:22 (twenty years ago)

That personality test was really hard.

Cathy (Cathy), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 17:34 (twenty years ago)

I spent much of the show ranting about how dreadful it was. There were a number of unspoken assumptions that I thought were plainly nonsensical. The seagull scientist (this is a famous and important experiment that I've read about before) took the attitude 'this is clearly a universal principle', and in response to examples where it plainly doesn't imply, tried 'they are clearly suppressing this universal instinct', which as scientific thinking goes is plainly rubbish. The 'these are the best statues ever and no one has matched the craftsmanship since' was the single dumbest thing I've ever seen an arts presenter say.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 17:45 (twenty years ago)

Your favourite type of art is secular Islamic.

In the personality profile you had a high intellectualism score, which suggests you like to think about abstract ideas and have a creative imagination.

Find out more about your personality test results

People who are the same age and sex as you are most likely to prefer Cubism

People who also score highly in your dominant personality trait are most likely to prefer Japanese ukiyo-e.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 17:49 (twenty years ago)

Odd that two of the Northern Renaissance paintings are sections of a larger work. I thought the piece of "Garden of Earthly Delights" looked familiar but couldn't place it. Seems like that might throw the results slightly.

I suspect I would have gotten NR (aesthetically similar to the NR paintings they use), except that I gave Brueghel the Elder's "Vase of Flowers" low marks for enjoyment. (Whatever that means - kind of an odd judge for artistic personality, isn't it?)

The only group that I really disliked (unsurprising to me) were the Impressionists. I really, truly just don't get the Impressionists (or else I'm blinded by 100 years of awful bougie culture rendering them wall-dressing).

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 17:55 (twenty years ago)

I complained, all the way through, too. I don't think he was saying they were the best statues, was he? I thought he was saying they were the most intricate and accurate representations of human form but, what what the altered and emphasised proportions, he couldn't really say that. oh, well.

crosspost x2

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 17:59 (twenty years ago)

He very specifically said that he thought they were the best statues ever.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

My comments on the pictures in that test probably showed my frustration. "How does it make you feel?" Well, I mean, the vast majority of paintings don't really influence my emotions - not in the way music does. So my answers either didn't answer the question, in that I said what I thought about the picture rather than how it made me feel, or they were of the Bored/Annoyed variety. I think at one point I told them they were stupid to ask me to judge a fragment of a picture.

Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 07:58 (twenty years ago)

i got secular islamic

j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 08:10 (twenty years ago)

i got cubism. these tests are like horoscopes, they are not going to tell you something you dont want to hear.
"why yes, i AM strong willed but with a sensitive side"

zappi (joni), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 08:35 (twenty years ago)

It was a very difficult personality test indeed, and I'm really sure which index they were using. A bit odd.

Oh, why the Spivey haterz? He's a PROFESSOR OF CLASSICAL (SPECIFICALLY GREEK) ART AT CAMBRIDGE!!! Of course he's going to be biased in favour of Greek statues. Everyone is entitled to their biases - especially as he said quite clearly it was merely HIS opinion.

How weird, I thought the "secular Islamic art" was just plain abstract sub-Mondrianism which obviously I loathe. I very much like non-secular Islamic art, but I would, because of all the patterns and text and sacred geometry and things.

The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 10:43 (twenty years ago)

Only one of the secular Islamic pieces was abstract (kind of - the 13th century water pump drawing). "The Royal Hunt" looked kind of like mid-Renaissance painting (Bosch, etc.) in the colors and way a group scene was laid out, "Women In Veils" looked damn near contemporary and feminist without context (sort of Gerhard Richter-ish, too in the way the darks are painted), the water pump reminded me of a lot of modern industrial art/architectural drawings (but I'm the kind of nerd who likes framed Frank Lloyd Wright plans) and the bird was the one I think Momus and Ken are calling Duchampesque which is completely OTM.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 17:31 (twenty years ago)

It wasn't the bird, milo, it was the water mill which reminded me of some of Duchamp's whirligigs, particularly the two that ended up in The Bride Stripped Bare By Her Bachelors, Even (The Large Glass) that are known as the Chocolate Grinder and the Nine Malic Molds, this last one which is actually above a water mill.

Ken L (Ken L), Saturday, 21 May 2005 14:03 (twenty years ago)

Ha ha, ancient Aborigines invented the Soundtrack!!!

I love the Spivey.

The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Tuesday, 31 May 2005 11:46 (twenty years ago)

The problem with this episode (and most others) was that he spent a long time saying how great something was, and then say "but actually, as you can see, it was rubbish." - the example last night being that tower thing.

Spivy's not all that.

Come Back Johnny B (Johnney B), Tuesday, 31 May 2005 12:31 (twenty years ago)

What tower thing? Trajan's column? But that is GRATE!!! They've got a full size cast in the V&A and it's so big it doesn't fit, even in the double height sculpture gallery. They had to break it in two.

The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Wednesday, 1 June 2005 10:18 (twenty years ago)

Plus, Spivey is fitt. Even if he is neither blond nor teenage. Though I suspect he might be a Tory. All those Classicists are. Sigh.

The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Wednesday, 1 June 2005 10:19 (twenty years ago)

Trajan's column? But that is GRATE!!!

But SPivy's last words on the subject were about how it doesn't move him and how unimpressive it is, really.

The chap's fitness I am less qualified to comment on, suffice to say that he's too close to Peter Mandelson for comfort.

Come Back Johnny B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 1 June 2005 10:28 (twenty years ago)

He didn't say it didn't impress him, he just said that it didn't have as much emotional impact on him. That's not the same thing as saying it sucked.

The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Wednesday, 1 June 2005 10:33 (twenty years ago)

Oh it's impressive, no doubt about that. But the show's about how a series of images tells a story and fosters an emotional response. If said columm doesn't have that emotion, then by the rules laid down, it sucks. Not my rules.

Come Back Johnny B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 1 June 2005 10:40 (twenty years ago)

i don;'t think film is intrinsically a narrative medium, so was a bit nonplussed by the 45 seconds i saw of this.

N_RQ, Wednesday, 1 June 2005 10:41 (twenty years ago)

No, he was pointing out how narrative developped, and how Trajan's column was only a step along the way. I mean, after all, it had a TRAILER!!! and everything.

(I wonder if those were Spivey's daughters watching Babe with him.)

The Square Root Of Negative Two (kate), Wednesday, 1 June 2005 10:44 (twenty years ago)

This is all very interesting, but-
what about the ukiyo-e?

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 1 June 2005 12:21 (twenty years ago)

I should stop clicking on this thread. Especially if I am going to hear what this fool said about a form of art I am busy writing about this week...

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 1 June 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

they played tortoise in the background when he was on the spanish steps, a couple of weeks ago.

shit programme, still.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 1 June 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)


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