Vegan Children

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This summer i will be catering for a camp of 110 children and adult in a field in Wales.

I've just got my vegan tally among them is a an elf vegan, whose mother also a vegan will be on the camp with her pixie.

(Apologies elf=6 and a half to 7, not normally acompanied by parent, pixie= less than 6.5 and acompanied by parent)

Do you think parents should bring their children up as vegans given that they will not devlop the faculties to digest animal products.

Naturally I'm not going to do anything about this its not for me to tell people how to bring up their children, but I'd be interested in what you think.

Ed, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I was hoping this thread was about 'vegan children: the new meat-free alternative to cannablistic infanticide'. Linda McCartney missed a trick.

You might as well question whether parents should bring up their children to eat meat, given that the chances of them becoming vegetarian in later life and regretting having been fed all that meat before they had a chance to object are much greater than them growing up to be a radical carnivore who really cares about having been fed vegetables and deprived of meat all those years.

Is that true abou vegan children never being able to digest animal products in future? I'd have thought the guts can adapt OK given a bit of time, but I may be wrong.

Nick, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I was lead to beleive that the ability to digest cows milk and products is something that has to be aquired. I could be wrong.

Ed, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Thing I dislike about veganism = rich American backpackers going to third-world countries and demanding special 'vegan' or whatever dishes because the natives don't have anything on the menu conforming to ever-changing Western eating trends.

tarden, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I was vegan as a child because i could not eat meat.
I got sick on lactose and would never shit if i was eating meat. I am a omniivore now.

anthony, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

The ability to digest milk, and lactose, as an adult is a genetic thing only common to certain "ethnic" groups. Only certain groups of Northern Europeans (and their descendants on other continents) are able to digest milk as an adult. In most parts of the world, people lost the ability to digest milk somewhere around the age of 5. This is an evolutionary adaptation to the environment of Northern Europe, it has nothing to do with whether you are raised drinking milk or not.

Lactose intolerance is actually the norm, not the abberation.

masonic boom, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Lactose intolerance is actually the norm, not the abberation

I find this most unlikely. Cattle are reared in Africa and Asia. In India the cow is a sacred animal and the meat isn't eaten. Now why would people bother keeping large herds of cows, even in those places where the meat isn't eaten, if it wasn't so that people could drink the milk and make foods from it such as cheese?

MarkH, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Because milk is processed into Cheese and Yoghurt and such things, it does something to the milk which renders it edible to the adults. I'm not making this up, if anyone was making it up, it was the scientists on the Channel 4 documentary that I saw it on.

masonic boom, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I didn't believe it but I do now:-

Between 30 and 50 million Americans are lactose intolerant. Certain ethnic and racial populations are more widely affected than others. As many as 75 percent of all African-Americans and Native Americans and 90 percent of Asian-Americans are lactose intolerant. The condition is least common among persons of northern European descent.

Jonnie, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

i guess the only thing you can say is the parents have to be able to bring up their kids as they see fit. whether the kids will thank them for it later (whatever way they're bought up) is another matter entirely.

ed, you can be full of surprises sometimes. i would never have guessed that you would be doing the above.

gareth, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

90 percent of Asians are lactose intolerant MY ASS.

JM, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

It's entirely up to the parents as to whether or not they should raise their children vegan. Especially with the average American's diet, I think it'd be quite positive if kids snacked more on carrots than beef jerky or nachos soaked with cheese.

In retrospect, I sure wish there had been less dairy products in my house growing up. Purely by habit, I drank loads of milk and ate my share of cheese. I was a mild asthmatic and had allergy troubles throughout my youth. Since eliminating meat, drinking milk and severely cutting my dairy intake, my allergies and other minor health problems have completely vanished. I also used to get sick with each season. Can't recall the last time I had the flu or any other seasonal illness.

(I'm not on a crusade -- that's just my experience.)

Andy, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I've seen a number of studies that claim 90% of the Asian populace is lactose intolerant. This figure certainly coincides with their bottom- level osteoporosis rate.

Andy, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I'm full of suprises, gareth.

Ed, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I think that actually, if you aren't given milk up until age 5 or so, your gene for producing lactase gets turned off or something like that (regardless of whether you are genetically lactose-challanged), but I don't know if that works for proteases involved in meat digestion. I get the feeling it doesn't. But hey?! What do I know? I've already forgotten most of what I learned as a Biochemist!

Right up there with lactose intolerance in ethnic populations is diabetes prominence. Extreemly high in native american and asian populations as well.

Have you ever met the "Milk is Evil" brigade? There's a big conspiracy theory around the stuff.

marianna maclean, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

is the mil is evil brigade like the meat oppresses women brigade? meat rocks, kids suck, meaty kids - good for cooking, not much else; kiddy meats - are we talking veal, cos that is nice, with a good sauce and all. i used to be vegetarian until i realised i just couldn'g go past bacon or salami or sorpresa without drooling - i think it's an oral thing.

Geoff, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

My favourite joke, and it's a sickie, natch.

What do vegetarian worms eat?

Linda McCartney

suzy, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Are worms lactose intolerant too then?

Jonnie, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

HAve you ever seen a worm suck a cows teats?

They are big on goats milk in Mongolia. Is that a different kind of lactose. Me, I'm all about the milk and put my unbreakability down to the two pints a day that I drink. I would feel sorry for anyone who was denied cheese on the whim of a parent, but I guess the problem is inherent for any person who proscribes a certain aspect of diet. I know I was pissed off as a child when I realised my parents were specifically with-holding caviare from me.

Pete, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Not to mention avocadoes.

Sorry - this is a private joke. Pete thinks I am the Queen of the Middle Classes as I had avocadoes as a child whereas he doesn't know what to do with them even now he is a grown up and lives in the same house as books by Delia, Nigel, Jamie and Nigella.

Emma, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Emma, I realise you're not anthony, but it's 'avocados'. Another of those crazy English 'anomolies'.

Nick, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Avocados as a class thing? I think it also depends on where you grow up. Even dogs eat avocados in Southern California.

The best story I ever heard on that respect was about my mum- brought up in South Africa with the most amazing selection of "exotic" fruits seeming perfectly normal to her. So my mum's best friend's husband was telling us this story about when my mum first moved to the UK, she used to complain constantly ::adopts posh Seth Efrikan voice:: "The price of pine-eppels in this country is OUT-regeous!!!"

For the record, I don't think avocados are middle class, I just think they're gross.

masonic boom, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

the Avocado Baby is a classic childrens book.

Ed, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Kate, I agree, hence the row. What is middle class about avocados? I dunno.

Nick, I blame British greengrocers and their appalling spelling / punctuation. You are lucky I didn't write avocadoe's.

Emma, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I'm not wholly claiming it as a class thing - though obviously I am. As far as I was concern avocado pertained to the colouring of our Armitage Shanks Bathroom Suite and no such fruit/vegetable crossover thing. Eating fruit as a savoury dish frankly perturbs me.

Guacamole always seems to lack something when I have it, but that just might the crap Mexican restaurants in this country. That said I went to Mexico last year and it lacked something there too. Probably salt.

I still have never bought an avocado in my life. They still scare me.

Pete, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Guacamole is different from avocado. Guacamole is food of the gods, especially when mixed with sour cream and hotsauce and served with burritos... mmmm...

Oh god, I hope SF does well this weekend, so that we can afford a trip back to the Covent Garden Mexican place... Gah, this is terrible. My bandmates were taking the piss out of me last night saying "If you really ARE a trustafarian, how come you're always so broke and never have any money?" Which is what I'd like to know, actually!

masonic boom, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

India is more than 10% of Asia, and I've never even heard of a lactose-intolerant Indian. I think denying your children the ability to appreciate 99% of the world's cuisine is more than a bit cruel, but hey, whatever. Food is one of the things that keeps me from becoming a misanthrope.

Kris, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Things can be country-specific when it comes to class. I mean going on holiday to Mexico is probably not a very middle class pursuit if you live in California, but if British people do it it's very la-di-da. Sorry, that's not a very good example. All right: postmen! My Canadian friend, whom I mentioned elsewhere some moments ago, insists that in Canada, being a postman is a perfectly repectable middle class profession. Over here, I bet not many postmen eat avocados.

Nick, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Food is one of the things that keeps me from becoming a misanthrope.

You're a CANNIBAL?!??!?! My god, and I thought I was bad...

masonic boom, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I didn't go to Mexico in a la-di-da way. I went in a hard, gruff working class way. And then some Mexican mugged me with an avocado which I thought was a hand grenade... (I thought he was a Zapatista see).

Pete, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Misanthropes are cannibals? No wonder I've had trouble picking the fingernails out of my teeth after a meal.

The avocado/guac conundrum -- avocados on their own are odd little things. Guac is nice, but is too liberally used. It *must* be prepared freshly and should not be indulged in huge-ass portions per chip.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I *LOVE* avocados. So evocative. The best thing you can do with an avocado is whack it on toast with mayo and soy sauce, it's the Vegetarian Bacon Sarnie substitute that even carnivore me will eat.

suzy, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

mayo and soy sauce is a combination that rocks anyway the added avocado and nice brown bread has me drooling

Ed, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

IN California, avocados are everywhere -- they put them on everything out here. I went home to Boston a couple months ago, and when a bartender heard that I lived in California, he said, "Hey you want me to put some avocado in that for ya, California boy".

I would rather my parents pushed vegetarianism on me, rather than Catholicism.

tOM p, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

In Aztec Avacado means Testicle.
Anyway if it isnt gaucolome (sp), it isnt worth eating.

anthony, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

You're a CANNIBAL?!??!?! My god, and I thought I was bad...

I only eat people who are already dead of natural causes, and only when Safeway isn't stocking okra. What's bad about that? I won't eat other cannibals either; I hear that's how you catch prions.

Kris, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Fuck hippies. Fuck them. Phish are playing here tonight, approx. 8 blocks from me, and hippies have been swarming the streets. Like fruitflies. Or ants. Or slugs. Fucking vegan hippie motherfuckers.

Sterling Clover, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Didn't they break up or something? Oh dear.

Josh, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

If they broke up, then what were hippies doing TAKING ALL THE GOOD PARKING SPOTS?

Sterling Clover, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

They gotta park all those little vans SOMEWHERE.

Josh, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

did you see any deadhead stickers on cadillacs?

duane, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Don't look back!

Richard Tunnicliffe, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

You can never look back.

Andy, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

"Thought I knew what love was / What did I know? / Those days are gone forever / It's just me and my avacado."

AP, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

But I can SEEEEEEEE you
Your nachos sitting in the sun...

Would the video consist of a guy being driven around LA shot in sepiatone while preparing fresh salsa?

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

twenty-two years pass...

Your vegan cat

https://www.peta.org/living/animal-companions/vegetarian-cats-dogs/

| (Latham Green), Friday, 15 December 2023 15:38 (one year ago) link

great revive

come on barbo let’s go parpo (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 15 December 2023 15:43 (one year ago) link


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