Education, education, education!

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Ok, I think kids go to school way too early, like 3 years old or something! In Norway they go at 7 which is much better!...Did you like High School?...Is getting a degree really worth it? Is there too much emphasis on exams, are today's graduates totally impratical? (I know I am) Would vocational courses be a good idea?...Anyway, just turn this into a free 4 all about education!

james e l, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

School sucks.

Mike Hanle y, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Not as much as being at work at ten past seven on a Friday night does. If I was still at school I'd have finished work four hours ago, gone to play football, had my tea and now be out on my bike. Instead I'm getting hassle from a law firm whose e-mail doesn't work. School rocks.

Jonnie, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

It's probably Paul's lawfirm as well, idnit? ;-) Tell to where to stuff their non-working email and go down the pub! Tell 'em I told you!

masonic boom, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I'm still at work - hic - but I have a bar at work - hic - which I run - hic - still leaving very soon. And I do not understand your High School question. Is it like the High Church.

Pete, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I think our kids go to school way too late. Go to school as early as possible, get it over with. I think the American system is all fucked anyhow: there's no reason to do it this way. Kids shouldn't have grades, ie first grade, second grade, third grade, at least not based on age. You should move up based upon ability, the more able moving well faster, the less able getting the attention they need as long as they need it. If that means someone graduates at 13, so be it, who cares? Let them get on with their lives and get a job early and do what they need to do with themselves. It's a waste of time.

Ally, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

What, like six in the mornin'?

Pete, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Ally's got a good point -- the joy of skipping grades, lemme tell ya. I skipped that intellectual minefield known as kindergarten, and allegedly could have skipped first grade as well, but I bet that would have made me into a total freaking misfit (as opposed to a misfit).

As muttered elsewhere, though, school was a fun experience for the most part. Though I hated getting up early every day, where now I just acknowledge it.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

School was just a very boring experience for me. Skipping grades is NOT a joy at all, I think - not in our current system at least. I was offered more than once and turned it down every time because I didn't want to be the young kid, the outcast. Whereas if the system was changed so that everyone just tested and wherever they fell, they fell, you wouldn't really be out of place or outcast because people would be mixed together.

I liked my friends in high school. That was about all I liked about high school. I was bored in classes and just hated them, but I've already detailed my snapping points in depth and we don't need to keep going into it!

Ally, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Serves you right for becomeing a professional. Be careful what you wish for!School sucks becasue its not about intellect its about playing games with grades.

Mike Hanle y, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Kids should start school real early - better to learn when you are very young. Then they should get some time off (I don't know maybe when they are like 10 or 11) then they would really appreciate the time away. I hate the fact that you have to go to school all the time when you are a child, then you grow up and have to go to work all day-fuck it all.

I hated school, always felt like it was my parents fault-they betrayed me by sending me. Same thing as going to the doctor, always thought it was a punishment or something. I still avoid the doctor as much as possible.

tOM p, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I was the only out teenager in high school with a large morg population. It wasnt fun.

anthony, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I don't go to school anymore. I have friends now. I prefer this.

Ally C, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Well, I never did. And I'm a lot happier for it, but crucially much less able to fit into the environment of the workplace.

Robin Carmody, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

The idea that kids of the same intelligence will get along better socially is utter shit. I used to go to these "enrichment" classes for gifted kids, and fully half the people I met were pretentious cocksmacks. And now I'm at an allegedly high-ranking college with a bunch of kids who got minimum 1400 on the SATs, and I've never met a bigger crowd of toadying bastards in my life. My best friend at home goes to community college.

Dave M., Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

High school was a waste of my fucking time. 13 -17 seemed to be such a stupid time to be trying to get "educated". People'd rather be out in the streets, getting loaded, committing crimes (or, OK - sitting alone in their rooms, masturbating, reading Sven Hassel). They should've just left us the hell alone & if anyone really *wanted* education they could go straight to university. They could've taught me whatever the fuck they teach people in high school (dunno, i was busy doodling swastikas on my desk) when I was 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 years old (= smart enough to get the stuff down but not "rebellious" yet) but at that time they were wasting my time with some other shit that just served to make me think "school is stupid".

duane, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

God, Norway have got it right. Waiting 'till the child is at least - AT LEAST - seven is the only sensible thing to do if the child is to have any kind of sane childhood. Before the age of seven all the child needs are it's parents and the home environment. This idea of pushing the child off as soon as possible to pre-school education is sick. It comes from the middle class obsession with conditioning the child from the get-go to gear them up for the workplace; to become a productive worker. And that's it. Forget happiness, forget enjoying childhood, forget love 'YOU WANT A GOOD JOB DON'T YOU? IN A NICE OFFICE?'.

I hated playschool/kindergarten. I kicked and screamed and caused a fuss and didn't go back. I stayed at home after that, learning at my parents knee. I started school aged nearly five, and most of the kids I started with couldn't read - I could; couldn't write - I could; couldn't tell the time - I could. Waste of time going to school so young.

As for exams, I wonder why I bothered. I've got the certificates in an envelope somewhere, I've never taken them out and no-one has ever asked to see them.

D*A*V*I*D*M, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Am I the only high school dropout in this bitch?

adam, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

What bitch?

the pinefox, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

education, thats what i need

gareth, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I dropped out of the University of Kent after 3 weeks, was doing History of Art and Film Studies. Gave it all up to do Business Admin...ha ha, my crazy life!

james e l, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Law school sucks. Not only because of the alleged education you get there, but because you'll be surrounded by lawyers and lawyer wannabes all day for three years of yer life. As if that's not bad enough, you'll be surrounded by lawyers for the rest of yer life after you get the JD. And be carrying around more debt than some third world nations when it's all done. And then you've got to the take the fucking Bar exam ...

Anyone in here giving law school any thought, keep all that in mind and ponder whether there's anything else you might want to do with yourself.

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

My rants on the educational system could fill reams and reams and reams. Up until the age of about 11 or 12, I went to weird alternative schools where you *did* progress at your own rate. I was reading Shakespeare and studying geometry at the age of 6 or 7. Although it was great at the time, it fucked me up royally for the rest of my life, because A) I started early and skipped a grade, and was a total loser loner freak a year and a half younger than everyone else in the class for the rest of time.

And B) because the rest of the world *isn't* like that. The important things that you learn in schools have nothing to do with Shakespeare or the sum of the hypoteneuse, they're things like dealing with authority, managing deadlines, working effectively in groups. I never learned any of things, and I never got properly socialised, hence I find it ridiculously difficult to function in society.

I don't know about the vocational courses thing- unless you want to be a mechanic or something very specific, it's hard to tailor them. Most schools *do* teach typing and computer skills which are pretty much the only cross-career vocational skills that most people need. I can't judge what the "normal" education system needs to teach more of cause I never had the normal education system. I *did* learn things like logic and problem solving instead of fact repetition. I would have liked more socialisation, more people skills, more life skills.

masonic boom, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Kate, next time I see you, wanna borrow "Deschooling Society" by Ivan Illich?

chris, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Yes, please. Except it will probably just make me angry, won't it?

masonic boom, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Is it as bitter as illichs dismemberment of the medical system . He said medicine caused as much illness as germs. Fuck he evn invited a word for it,my memory needs to be better.

anthony, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Am I the only high school dropout in this bitch?

You're kidding, right?

Ally, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Man! School is awesome. I want to go back! Where I'm from (Michigan) most kids parent's are discouraged from letting kids skip grades or taking advanced courses, reason being that they don't emotionally develop. And I think we can all see that Kate studying Geometry and thereby alienating herself at age 6 pretty much explains what went wrong. Just kidding!

Yeah, so I was way into art's and crafts and drama between the ages of seven and eleven. I was way into science and math between the ages of 11 and 15. No.. I'm still way into science and math. Anyway, I had to jump through all sorts of hoops to take classes that were even just a year ahead of me! When I started taking philosophy courses at the local University, I really freaked about the 30 year old students who where just finishing up their degrees and getting in their humanities requirements. I enjoyed that social circle much more than my high school social circle.

But I was 17 when I started University, and that's pretty young, but the really young kids, they were 16 or 15, and in one case 14. And wouldn't you know that they were the first ones to start smoking lots of pot and doing coke and committing suicide.

I should have gone to an easy liberal art school, but intead I thought to challenge myself so I went to a "technical school". I think I had too much homework to have a lot of fun. But I think I'd rather be in school now that be doing what I'm doing. Although having money to do stuff is also cool.

I don't know. Conclusion: School is awesome. Kids at school aren't.

marianna maclean, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

so, about learning practical things as in kate's message above, i think you can learn those things from a few places, your peers, your family/parents, and from yourself when you're pushed to limits. So maybe if you are a really bad procrastinator, it's because you had bad parents, didn't have any friends w/ good parents, and never have actually had to deal with life (i.e. had a nice cozy protective web you could fall back on). This explain why I haven't learned how to budget properly.

marianna maclean, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I was in this littel "accelerated " group in grade school and it was fun. The four of us played little games for an hour on wednesday. I was also in gifted art. However, I have grown into a useless ass. THe education system failed!

Mike Hanle y, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Am I the only high school dropout in this bitch?
Maybe. I have nightmares that I actually miss final exams. Even 10 years after finishing high school.

nathalie (nathalie), Sunday, 29 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I have nightmares abt missing 11-plus, 30 years after I took it, Nathalie. Only diff is they have become somewhat baroquely in the interim (such as fellow takers all = teddybears, in one version).

mark s, Sunday, 29 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I like to blame all my shortcomings on my education. When I was young, I was a pretty smart kid and did very well in school up until the age of about 13/14 when I realised I was could do better than most people without putting in any real effort. With this is mind, I didn't try too hard in my GCSEs but achieved reasonable grades (5 As, 6 Bs). Still not having learned my lesson, I repeated the 'not working' system (this time with even less work) at A-Level and just scraped through. Despite not doing that well, I still managed to get into my first choice for university, where, after two years (ie about three weeks ago) I finally became unstuck and failed the second year (though this was more to do with me not liking the course and more or less giving up half way through).

So, if at school, they'd given me interesting, challenging, stimulating stuff to do, then maybe I wouldn't be in the situation I'm in now of trying to decide what to do with myself.

Maybe it was my fault for going to the wrong school, I was offered a place in a nearby grammer school but my brother had gone there and hated it (they were very aggresively interested only in those who would make their results look good, quietly encouraging people likely to fail exams not to enter because it doesn't looks so bad in the league tables) plus all my friends were going to another school and at 11, that is *far* more important. And they had stupid red and black striped blazers.

Then again, maybe I'm just an inherently lazy person. Maybe I was never that smart a kid, maybe the level of a reasonably brainy 15/16 year old was always going to be my smartness level and I just got there a bit early.

I still think formal education is a massive swizz and though it's already been said and it is a bit of a cliche, trigonometry doesn't come in that useful in much of day to day life - but without it, you can't do your maths GCSE, and without that you can't do your A levels and without those etc.

Even though I've got a bit of a downer re: eductation at the moment, I still have a huge amount of respect for teachers who seem to be blamed for Everything That's Wrong With The Education System and get credited for absolutely zip.

jamesmichaelward, Sunday, 29 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I'm going back to school this autumn. Should be a serious challenge, considering that it'll be in addition to a full time (+ exhausting) job. Looking forward to it tho...

Kim, Sunday, 29 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Balls to school. Everything I know I've taught myself, which is why my opinions are so badly informed.

DG, Sunday, 29 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

three weeks pass...
When I was kindergarten age I don't even know if it was required, but it was half a day. Then first grade. Now kindergarten is all day long, just like the rest of the grades, which is absurd because all kindergarten is is learning to share and the letters of the alphabet. And Al Gore wants universal preschool? Kids do not need to go to school as early as possible. If you can read by the time you're 6 that's enough.

I used to think I was brilliant but I'm not.

Lyra, Friday, 24 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

seven years pass...

Was there ever a time in western educational history when 'c' (aka 'average' according to numerous syllabi I've received, even though no teacher/student/parent I've encountered thinks this way) was actually considered a reasonable/good grade?

sad man in him room (milo z), Tuesday, 23 September 2008 15:17 (sixteen years ago) link

What a waste. Teach yourselves, assholes!

Beast, Tuesday, 23 September 2008 15:40 (sixteen years ago) link

It's considered a reasonable grade in Britain (or at least it was when I was at school), particularly at A-Level. Not outstanding obviously but nothing to be ashamed of either.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 September 2008 16:44 (sixteen years ago) link

two years pass...
eight months pass...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/15/education/15sat.html

Average scores on the SAT fell across the nation this year, with the reading score for the high school class of 2011 falling three points to 497, the lowest on record, according to a report Wednesday by the College Board, which administers the exams.

The average writing score dropped two points, to 489, and the math score was down one point, to 514.

The College Board attributed the decline to the increasing diversity of the students taking the test. For example, about 27 percent of the nearly 1.65 million test-takers last year came from a home where English was not the only language, up from 19 percent a decade ago.

I find this to be pretty offensive!

dayo, Thursday, 15 September 2011 15:50 (thirteen years ago) link

how about "more students from schools that have suffered under horrific national education policies are taking the test"

dayo, Thursday, 15 September 2011 15:51 (thirteen years ago) link

two years pass...

skills

last updated 10 years ago by (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 December 2013 10:12 (eleven years ago) link

training

last updated 10 years ago by (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 December 2013 10:13 (eleven years ago) link

stakeholders

last updated 10 years ago by (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 December 2013 10:14 (eleven years ago) link

governance

last updated 10 years ago by (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 December 2013 10:15 (eleven years ago) link

vocational

last updated 10 years ago by (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 December 2013 10:15 (eleven years ago) link

Edexcel

last updated 10 years ago by (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 December 2013 10:16 (eleven years ago) link

values

last updated 10 years ago by (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 December 2013 10:17 (eleven years ago) link

lifelong learning (revoked)

last updated 10 years ago by (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 December 2013 10:19 (eleven years ago) link

funding

last updated 10 years ago by (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 December 2013 10:20 (eleven years ago) link

^^

kinder, Monday, 9 December 2013 11:07 (eleven years ago) link

bed bath and beyond

zanarkand bozo (abanana), Monday, 9 December 2013 11:39 (eleven years ago) link

our offer

last updated 10 years ago by (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 December 2013 11:43 (eleven years ago) link

kick a ball in the street

Singapore

Saturated with working class intelligence and not afraid to show it (Tom D.), Monday, 9 December 2013 12:20 (eleven years ago) link

IQs

last updated 10 years ago by (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 December 2013 12:29 (eleven years ago) link

targets

last updated 10 years ago by (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 December 2013 12:29 (eleven years ago) link

performance

last updated 10 years ago by (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 December 2013 12:29 (eleven years ago) link

Employability

Ramnaresh Samhain (ShariVari), Monday, 9 December 2013 12:50 (eleven years ago) link

Efficacy

Ramnaresh Samhain (ShariVari), Monday, 9 December 2013 12:50 (eleven years ago) link

Thought leadership.

Ramnaresh Samhain (ShariVari), Monday, 9 December 2013 12:52 (eleven years ago) link

indicators

last updated 10 years ago by (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 December 2013 13:15 (eleven years ago) link

oh i just came across a "thought leadership" in the wild, good shout

last updated 10 years ago by (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 December 2013 13:32 (eleven years ago) link

robust

Ofsted

veneer timber (imago), Monday, 9 December 2013 14:02 (eleven years ago) link

league tables

veneer timber (imago), Monday, 9 December 2013 14:03 (eleven years ago) link

guarantee

veneer timber (imago), Monday, 9 December 2013 14:03 (eleven years ago) link

environment

veneer timber (imago), Monday, 9 December 2013 14:03 (eleven years ago) link

competitive

veneer timber (imago), Monday, 9 December 2013 14:04 (eleven years ago) link

Practicalitabilitiness

mind totally brown (darraghmac), Monday, 9 December 2013 14:33 (eleven years ago) link

one month passes...

Just had an e-mail about "building channel-agnostic content that super-serves our learners".

A two-fer to watch.

Ramnaresh Samhain (ShariVari), Monday, 13 January 2014 15:13 (eleven years ago) link


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