Why are movies that make you cry generally considered bad, but music that makes you cry often considered good?

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Just wondering. 'Cause "tearjerker" (among other descriptions) is typically invoked as a pejorative. Whereas a piece of music "that moved me to tears" is thought of as good.

Thoughts?

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:04 (twenty years ago)

I have never heard tearjerker used pejoratively. it is mostly used to describe either a wistful, romantic, or heart-rending sadness.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)

Those three phrases you just used make the movie sound good. "Tearjerker" almost always means bad, not that all tearjerkers are bad. Anyway, it's not relevant to the question, really.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:10 (twenty years ago)

yes surely its pejorative use = user merely saying of self "i am a dick ignore me"?

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:11 (twenty years ago)

(BTW, forgive the horrible grammar of the question, which I just noticed)

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

anyway setting aside the argt abt who uses "tearjerker" this way, some of the ans = we are taught be suspicious of manipulation in art BUT the intensity of the teaching (or else degree of its success) varies in difft art forms

(i don't like the words "art" or "art forms" in that thought BUT substituion of "stuff" delivers the phrase "stuff forms" which seems somehow inadequate)

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

I dunno, I think there definitely is a musical equivalent here. I'm thinking of songs like "Butterfly Kisses" or that (yes) manipulative X-mas one about the kid with the dead mom that's wearing ballet shoes in heaven to dance with jesus or whatever. I'll be pejorative all over that shit.

― Kim (Kim), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:19 (twenty years ago)

tearjerker means "it'll make you cry it is so bad"?!

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:27 (twenty years ago)

I don't understand this question.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:29 (twenty years ago)

i understand it - i suppose i just don't think it's the case.

― jed_ (jed), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:32 (twenty years ago)

i think it's true to say that attitudes to degrees of acceptable manipulation vary between audience types

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:33 (twenty years ago)

i think i've cried at a song maybe 8 or 10 times in my life and almost all of those times i was crying because of something that was happening in my life at the time; i wasn't crying at the song per se. i've cried more often at movies (ALOT) and most of the time i was crying because of the sad story or whatever.

― jed_ (jed), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

...so maybe that's the reason i don't understand the question.

― jed_ (jed), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:39 (twenty years ago)

I agree, generally speaking. If I'm crying to music, there's a good chance it's opera.

― Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:40 (twenty years ago)

"Tearjerker" is not usually used pejoratively to describe a movie at which you actually cry. It's only used pejoratively when someone is describing a movie that is supposed to make one cry because it's so maudlin and sentimental, but does not actually.

― Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

I don't think of *tearjerkers* as bad movies, just the wimps that cry to be silly. ;-)

― nathalie's post modern sleaze fest (stevie nixed), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

I think 50 per cent of the films I see end up with me sniffing back the tears at some point, so Tearjerker is a broad category. Yesterday, it was Scrooged.

― Taste the Blood of Scrovula (noodle vague), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

Hurting OTM

― jed_ (jed), Saturday, 11 June 2005 18:43 (twenty years ago)

In my opinion, it's because a song making me cry has to do something out of the ordinary or in touch with my life that touches me. All a movie has to do is show a few shots of crying orphans and I'll be bawling through it. It's a lot easier to force me to cry at a movie because when I see people crying I often react by crying myself, even if I'm not deeply movied.

― Maria (Maria), Saturday, 11 June 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

I'm starting to learn to trust my tear ducts a little bit more w.r.t movies. I think A.I. played some sizable part in that.

― L'Histoire d'Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 11 June 2005 19:20 (twenty years ago)

http://www.vintagephotos.com/Image_96_Crying_Orphan_Girl.jpg

Are you bawling yet Maria?

― Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 11 June 2005 19:23 (twenty years ago)

Yesterday, it was Scrooged.

I cried at the end of 50 First Dates. I am a freakin' sap.

― Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Saturday, 11 June 2005 19:27 (twenty years ago)

X-Post Ha! It was watching "A.I." again this morning that prompted the thread!

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 11 June 2005 21:15 (twenty years ago)

I second the Hurting OTM. Not all movies that make you cry are considered bad I think, only "tearjerkers" which are trying to manipulate you to cry or feel sad.

― wetmink (wetmink), Saturday, 11 June 2005 21:27 (twenty years ago)

But why can "tearjerker" movies successfully manipulate someone to tears, but songs less so? Or am I missing something?

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 11 June 2005 22:04 (twenty years ago)

i can't think of any "tearjerking" songs but if i could they would probably be bad.

― jed_ (jed), Saturday, 11 June 2005 22:24 (twenty years ago)

I don't think movies can manipulate me to cry - the only time I remember this happening was with Titanic, and I didn't think that one was a bad film either. When I cry at a movie, it means it has to be a good one to raise such emotions in me. It's true though that movies can make you cry easier than songs; I remember only a handful of times when I've cried because of a song.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Saturday, 11 June 2005 22:31 (twenty years ago)

ts: touching vs maudlin

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 11 June 2005 22:44 (twenty years ago)

Tearjerkers use (usually) romantic type music to get the tears flowing. yes yes 'manipulation' consisting of the storyline that builds up to the crunch scene but that uses music of a certain type anyway.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 12 June 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

X-Post Ha! It was watching "A.I." again this morning that prompted the thread!

Yeah, those were very Brechtian tears I was shedding at the end.

― L'Histoire d'Eric H. (Eric H.), Sunday, 12 June 2005 16:48 (twenty years ago)

In film-speak, "tearjerker = bad" is part of the legacy of the "women's film." Even if Douglas Sirk and his contemporaries are being reassessed, there's a lingering presumption that making movies that primarily appeal to women is somehow unworthy.

― j.lu (j.lu), Sunday, 12 June 2005 16:53 (twenty years ago)

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000078DPZ.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

fig 1. An example of music marketed as having the ability to jerk tears from a person.

1. I Don’t Want To Talk About It - Rod Stewart
2. How Do I Live - Leann Rimes
3. Ain’t No Sunshine - Bill Withers
4. When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge
5. The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face - Easther Bennett
6. Somewhere Over The Rainbow - Eva Cassidy
7. Stay Another Day - E17
8. Even After All - Finlay Quaye
9. One Day I’ll Fly Away - Randy Crawford
10. Wishing On A Star - Rose Royce
11. Walk On By - Dionne Warwick
12. Piece Of My Heart - Erma Franklin
13. You Might Need Somebody - Shola Ama
14. She’s Gone - Hall And Oates
15. Tracks Of My Tears - Aretha Franklin
16. Kiss From A Rose - Seal
17. Still - Commodores
18. If I Could Turn Back The Hand Of Time - R. Kelly
19. Superwoman - Karyn White
20. Something Inside (So Strong) - Labi Siffre

Disc: 2
1. Unchained Melody - The Righteous Brothers
2. How Can You Mend A Broken Heart - Al Green
3. The Greatest Love Of All - George Benson
4. Bette Midler - The Rose
5. The First Cut Is The Deepest - Rod Stewart
6. Everybody Hurts - The Corrs
7. I Want To Know What Love Is - Foriegner
8. Drive - The Cars
9. If You Leave Me Now - Chicago
10. Everything I Own - Bread
11. Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon & Garfunkel
12. Eternal Flame - Bangles
13. Holding Back The Years - Simply Red
14. Missing - Ebtg -
15. Never Ever - All Saints
16. Show Me The Meaning Of Being Lonely - Backstreet Boys
17. Key To My Life - - Boyzone
18. Stay - Shakespear’s Sister

― elwisty (elwisty), Sunday, 12 June 2005 18:48 (twenty years ago)

Holy shit, that record has some great tunes! Though I have to wonder who would ever cry to "Never Ever".

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 12 June 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

I think it's just a difference in execution. Movies that try extremely hard to make me emotional very rarely work, a couple of Spielberg films aside. When movies sort of blindside me with throwaway moments or perfect endings, that's when I get emotional.

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Sunday, 12 June 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

I love that one flip there: "Bette Midler" by The Rose.

― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 12 June 2005 19:02 (twenty years ago)

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