Christopher Hitchens' beard

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C/D?

― , Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:01 (twenty years ago)

Did he buy it from Al Gore?

― Huk-L, Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

ihttp://www.cinemovie.info/Katie_Holmes/KatieHolmes34.jpg

― Frogm@n Henry, Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

Female audience member: Excuse me. I'm not usually awkward at all but I'm sitting here and we're asked not to smoke. And I don't like being in a room where smoking is going on.
CH: Well you don't have to stay darling, do you? I'm working here and I'm your guest, OK? And this is what I'm like; nobody has to like it.
IK: Would you just stub that one out?
CH: No. I cleared it with the festival a long time ago. They let me do it.
FAM: We should all be allowed to smoke then.
CH: Fair enough. I wouldn't object. It might get pretty nasty though. I have a privileged position here, I'm not just one of the audience, so it would be horrible if everyone was like me. This is my last of five gigs, I've worked very hard for the festival. I'm going from here to Heathrow airport. If anyone doesn't like it they can kiss my ass.

IK: Would anyone like to take up that challenge? (Laughter. Woman walks out.)

― jones (actual), Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:12 (twenty years ago)

I liked Jane Fonda trashing Peter Hitchens on Question Time t'other week.

― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:14 (twenty years ago)

Fonda Vs Hitchens? That sounds amazing. Listened to an hour long radio interview with her the other week - very interesting lady. But not having a TV means I missed it. Is it available on bit torrent anywhere?

― Stew (stew s), Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:17 (twenty years ago)

I wouldn't know I'm afraid.

Thing is, repellant as his views are, Peter is kind of a pussycat compared to his bro.

― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:20 (twenty years ago)

Too true. Didn't Peter Hitchens write a book in defence of Enoch Powell?

Christopher Hitchens used to be really good. A fine writer and polemicist in his day. But his whole "liberal interventionist" schtick is sadly misguided.
George Galloway, who is by no means a hero, totally slayed him recently with all that "drink sodden ex-Trotskyist popinjay" verbal smackdown.
Hitchens' comebacks were pretty feeble.
A couple of weeks later Galloway was commissioned to review the new Hitch for a Sunday paper. He said, "The review will be fair, because he writes like an angel. But he sups with the Devil. And drinks with him too." Boo ya!

― Stew (stew s), Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:25 (twenty years ago)

Galloway can talk, best pals with Tariq Aziz etc.

Hitchens' beard makes him look 15 years older. His full throated backing of the 'intervention' in Iraq is looking as misguided a stance as his opposition to the liberation of Kuwait. Galloway is quite correct though, he writes like an angel.

― stevo (stevo), Thursday, 23 June 2005 17:17 (twenty years ago)

Actually that familiar claim has become a canard. His 2003 book on Orwell, for instance, is slackly penned; and a 2002 essay on Waugh and Wodehouse is so lazily talky - after-dinner chat at the country club; another one, old bean? don't mind if I do - that it's painful reading.

― the pinefox, Friday, 24 June 2005 19:45 (twenty years ago)

actually i think the orwell book is probably better for NOT being what CH now seems to imaginely is "well written" (ie overwritten to the point of opacity): it is both unassuming and shrewd (which aren't qualities CH brings to the fore that often these days) (his litcrit is VERY hit-and-miss generally, but i thought this book was good)) (haha pf he agrees w.me abt raymond williams!!)

didn't he say somewhere he grew his beard for a visit to iran? (makes it easier to interview who he needed to, or something)

(i still don't understand why everyone thinks galloway's smackdown wz so outstanding)

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 25 June 2005 22:55 (twenty years ago)

I enjoy him most when he's kind of pissed off (as opposed to just pissed). But only when his vitriol is yoked to clear-eyed critical thinking. His enthusiasm for attacking Islamic fundamentalism is based in reasonable thought, but it's led him into a lack of honesty about the people who are most forcefully advancing that agenda. It's possible to abhor bin Ladenism and still be appalled by the Bush administration, but Hitchens has fallen into the with/against dichotomy. Whether that's the result of laziness or something more serious is kind of hard to say. Either way, I don't think the beard helps.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 25 June 2005 23:00 (twenty years ago)

i think he likes being a gadfly too much.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Sunday, 26 June 2005 01:26 (twenty years ago)

We have to remember that Gorgeous George is the Biggest Cock on God's Fucking Earth, and everything he says is automatically bullshit. Also, Chris took down that bitch Mother Theresa. Even his brother is sexy, and he writes for the Mail.

― Taste the Blood of Scrovula (noodle vague), Sunday, 26 June 2005 02:00 (twenty years ago)

WHAT THE FUCK WAS HIS BEEF WITH MOTHER TEHERSA??????????

― STACY WHITTINGTON, Sunday, 26 June 2005 02:02 (twenty years ago)

Errrrm, superstitious publicity-seeking friend of fascists climbing on the back of the poor money-grubbing disease-welcoming Mother Theresa? Can't imagine what his beef was.

― Taste the Blood of Scrovula (noodle vague), Sunday, 26 June 2005 02:05 (twenty years ago)

(i still don't understand why everyone thinks galloway's smackdown wz so outstanding)

i don't either. where/when did his smackdown of hitchens take place relative to his smackdown of norm coleman?

since none of us is in the habit of reading the weekly standard, i'm guessing hitchens countersmackdown is going unread (it's a month old already): http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/641kyjkk.asp
(tip: craner. i don't read tbe weekly standard either!)

― g e o f f (gcannon), Sunday, 26 June 2005 08:37 (twenty years ago)

where/when

same day, same place: i think as he was walkin into the hearings room (CH had — acc.himself — been heckling GG in the waiting area)

(btw GG's perf in the hearing WAS an effective smackdown - the committee's preparation was incredibly slack and complacent, assuming there were actually any charges to answer, and GG took maximum advantage)

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 26 June 2005 08:48 (twenty years ago)

congress has a performative aspect but (this is off the top here) it = noh, where parliament = standup, so i think there was some style difference that jarred everyone. i kind of doubt the subcommittee was slackly unprepared to be the subcommittee, but to deal with a george galloway live and in person is another thing.

― g e o f f (gcannon), Sunday, 26 June 2005 08:55 (twenty years ago)

It's possible to abhor bin Ladenism and still be appalled by the Bush administration, but Hitchens has fallen into the with/against dichotomy

Indeed. My armchair diagnosis: the booze is hardening his synapses.

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Sunday, 26 June 2005 10:39 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

http://www.newcriterion.com/weblog/2005/08/isnt-george-galloway-on-do-not-fly.html

― , Wednesday, 24 August 2005 12:05 (twenty years ago)

Is George Galloway the UK's Adam Clayton Powell? The left's holy sinner? Sticking it to the man, though still, possibly, actually a crook? At any rate, I loved how he disassembled Norm Coleman and (at least) wounded the ever-more-indefensible Hitchens.

― M. V. (M.V.), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 13:39 (twenty years ago)

There's a thread about Galloway somewhere – I searched for it but it took too long so I gave up. The consensus in the UK seems to be that whatever he says that one agrees with, it's undermined by the fact that he's a total shit. One of the most dislikeable people in British politics, I think.

― beanz (beanz), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 14:22 (twenty years ago)

Hic!, beard or not, on the Daily Show tonight. See how the Cindy Sheehan-bashing goes over.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 August 2005 19:05 (twenty years ago)

that oughta be interesting. I caught Lott last night and that was a bit better than I expected.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 25 August 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

anybody hear Lott on Fresh Air yesterday?

― kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Thursday, 25 August 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

in other news, Hitchens on tonight's Daily Show

― kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 26 August 2005 04:11 (twenty years ago)

in other news, Hitchens on tonight's Daily Show (with beard)

― kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 26 August 2005 04:11 (twenty years ago)

oops

― kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 26 August 2005 04:13 (twenty years ago)

Nicely done, both of them.

― JKex (JKex), Friday, 26 August 2005 04:33 (twenty years ago)

the barbary coast is really interesting, because there are connections--the arguement that jefferson made was that it was nessc. for reasons of economic self determation--i wonder what would happen if bush dropped the rhetoric and argued that it was for esd, and that was legit.

― anthony easton (anthony), Friday, 26 August 2005 05:46 (twenty years ago)

Watching that Hitchens-Stewart clip, what's bizarre to me is how thoroughly Hitchens has somehow convinced himself that there is this mass of anti-Bush squishy liberals out there who don't understand that Islamist terrorism is a real problem. I mean, I understand that as a Rovian talking point, it's what you say when you're trying to win elections, but Hitchens isn't running for anything and he's too smart to have any excuse for actually believing that kind of nationalist pabulum.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 26 August 2005 06:13 (twenty years ago)

He apparently doesn't understand that Islamist terrorism has a better training ground now in Iraq than ever, per recent CIA report.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 26 August 2005 12:29 (twenty years ago)

I was surprised at how clearly and concisely Stewart came off by comparison - Hitchens' seemed sorta muddled and disconnected, and Stewart (in a rather unusual turn) really kind of handed his ass to him.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 26 August 2005 15:12 (twenty years ago)

cuz Stewart was sober? I'll have to catch the rerun tonight. Did Cindy Sheehan come up?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 26 August 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)

actually, the conditional is whether Hitchens is wet or not that night. Stewart has cut down on his on-camera drinking.

from Wonkette:

Stewart: The people who say we shouldn't fight in Iraq aren't saying it's our fault. . . That is the conflation that is the most disturbing. . .
Hitch: Don't you hear people saying. . .
Stewart: You hear people saying a lot of stupid [bleep]. . . But there are reasonable disagreements in this country about the way this war has been conducted, that has nothing to do with people believing we should cut and run from the terrorists, or we should show weakness in the face of terrorism, or that we believe that we have in some way brought this upon ourselves. . .
Hitch: [Sputter]
Stewart: They believe that this war is being conducted without transparency, without credibility, and without competence...
Hitch: I'm sorry, sunshine... I just watched you ridicule the president for saying he wouldn't give. . .
Stewart: No, you misunderstood why.... That's not why I ridiculed the president. He refuses to answer questions from adults as though we were adults and falls back upon platitudes and phrases and talking points that does a disservice to the goals that he himself shares with the very people needs to convince.
[Audience erupts in applause]
Hitch: You want me to believe you're really secretly on the side of the Bush administration. . .
Stewart: I secretly need to believe he's on my side. He's too important and powerful a man not to be.
Hitch: [Sputter, return to talking about his latest book.]

― kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 26 August 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

the moment towards the end when Stewart whipped out the book and gave this sly look to Hitchens that said "either explain yourself now or plug your book, cuz you can't do both" was both mean and totally brilliant.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 26 August 2005 16:22 (twenty years ago)

"I'm sorry, sunshine"

Man, he needs slappin'.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 26 August 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

Hitchens has been nuts since the mid-90s, when he threw in with the "Clinton sold crack at the White House, is a serial rapist and personally executed Vince Foster" crowd.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 26 August 2005 16:49 (twenty years ago)

I liked Hitchens fine in that period, since I would've been happy to see Clinton impeached for being a war criminal instead of for bullshit.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 26 August 2005 16:55 (twenty years ago)

I hated Hitchens in that period, because he made left-criticism of Clinton into a joke. There were actual arguments against Clinton (ie 'war criminal') that didn't involve chilling with Jerry Falwell.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 26 August 2005 16:57 (twenty years ago)

Cockburn vs Hitchens:

http://counterpunch.org/cockburn08252005.html

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 26 August 2005 17:16 (twenty years ago)

have there been any presidents since the '50s who shouldn't have been impeached as war criminals?

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 26 August 2005 19:40 (twenty years ago)

Carter?

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 26 August 2005 19:51 (twenty years ago)

Carter is the only moral president in modern memory.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 26 August 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

He had lust in his heart, tho.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 26 August 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

(and I'm not saying he was a GOOD president - cuz he wasn't, really - just that he's the only person to have held the office in the last 50 years who actually had an honest-to-God personal moral barometer which dictated his actions. the rest have all been liars, hypocrites, manipulators, and obfuscators when it suited their political goals.)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 26 August 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

I think he's been a lot more moral as an ex-prez.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 26 August 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

that's true too.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 26 August 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

[HITCHENS] My long account of my view of, and experience of, David Irving is to be found in my latest collection, entitled Love, Poverty and War and published by Nation Books.

[COCKBURN] Who cares about long essays? In terms of the "Hitchens treatment", his lauding of Irving as "a great historian" is the phrase that counts.

...which if he'd read the fucking thing he'd realise was untrue. Hitchens has his flaws, but Cockburn is a total crackpot.

― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Friday, 26 August 2005 20:28 (twenty years ago)

His name is Cockburn dude, what else do you expect.

― Stuh-du-du-du-du-du-du-denka (jingleberries), Friday, 26 August 2005 20:31 (twenty years ago)

I can't even be bothered to follow all that careerist sniping - its like listening to two gossipy teenage girls bitch about who said what to whom. whatEVER.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 26 August 2005 20:49 (twenty years ago)

Carter wasn't averse to letting some pretty fucked up things go on during his Admin.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 26 August 2005 20:52 (twenty years ago)

I was about to say, let's not overstate here. He hosted Ceaucescu, for instance.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 26 August 2005 20:55 (twenty years ago)

Not to mention that he's the #6 person who is screwing up America.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 26 August 2005 20:58 (twenty years ago)

he made plenty of errors in judgment, political miscalculations, etc. I'm not arguing that - my point is that you stack him up against Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II, Carter is the only one who, looking back, actually appears to have held himself to a standard of honesty, forthrightness, and compassion. I get the sense that those were actually his guiding principles, and not just things he gave lip service to in order to advance a more cold, calculated political agenda.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 26 August 2005 21:02 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, the standard was "should he be tried for war crimes," which is setting the morality bar pretty low. I can't think of anything in his term that quite rises to that level.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 26 August 2005 21:04 (twenty years ago)

The big one that sticks out to me is increased assistance to the Indonesian military at the height of the East Timor genocide, running interference in the UN, etc..

He also played a role in the initiation of anti-Sandinista operations as well as kicking off everyone's favorite Islamist triumph, Afghanistan.

Yay, Jimmy.

Most moral President of the late-20th century: Gerald Ford, 'cuz he didn't have enough time or support to really fuck things up for anyone.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 26 August 2005 21:06 (twenty years ago)

that were an xpost. I disagree immensely - Carter was no better than Ford and only slightly better than Bush I (who loses primarily for throwing anti-Saddam forces to the wolves).

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 26 August 2005 21:07 (twenty years ago)

is it even possible for presidents to be truly moral?

― latebloomer: funky like a monkey and as cool as a cat (latebloomer), Friday, 26 August 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

uh, Ford pardoned Nixon - may not have resulted in any genocide, but it was such a brazenly immoral thing to do, a blatantly politically motivated favor to his predecessor, that I can't really cut him any slack. sorry. Nixon should've gone to fucking jail.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 26 August 2005 21:16 (twenty years ago)

I'll take a meaningless pardon over abetting genocide. Any day.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 26 August 2005 21:25 (twenty years ago)

Counterpunch doesn't think much of Carter. Not that that's a big surprise.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 26 August 2005 21:32 (twenty years ago)

Counterpunch and Z can both be pretty nutty on contemporary events, but they do well in the 'hindsight is 20/20' sweepstakes.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 26 August 2005 21:45 (twenty years ago)

I wasn't even aware there was an East Timorese genocide on Carter's watch, you'll have to enlighten me on that one. Ford's hands are comparably clean...? I find that hard to believe.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 26 August 2005 21:52 (twenty years ago)

Ford (well, Kissinger) supported the Indonesia government's crackdown. Carter continued the support.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 26 August 2005 22:10 (twenty years ago)

tho Ford did have some other problems, as i present to you his chief of staff & deputy chief of staff:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB142/FordRumyChenney01.jpg

and a closer shot for increased smirkyness:

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/3337/amn6wt.jpg

― kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 26 August 2005 22:11 (twenty years ago)

since the majority of americans at the time thought nixon should've gone on trial, i'd say no way was that pardon "meaningless."

i wonder if there have been ANY presidents who didn't do or at least tacitly approve despicable things during their terms, apart from william henry harrison and james garfield. i tend to fall into the "carter is the least bad recent pres" camp, but it's a bit like saying "wendy's is the least awful fast food" - it doesn't mean it's actually GOOD. though carter certainly deserves credit for doing something with his post-pres years instead of just playing golf and writing his memoirs.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 26 August 2005 22:50 (twenty years ago)

i wonder if there have been ANY presidents who didn't do or at least tacitly approve despicable things during their terms

With the possible exception of William Henry Harrison, who was president for 32 days and bedridden for most of those, I'd say your answer is no.

(and of course, ol' Tippecanoe was a blood-spattered Indian killer from way back, so his clean record in office is no particular credit to him)

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 26 August 2005 23:47 (twenty years ago)

garfield was assassinated a month into his term, so i don't think he had time to do much either.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 27 August 2005 02:24 (twenty years ago)

but he will live on our hearts....or not.

― latebloomer: funky like a monkey and as cool as a cat (latebloomer), Saturday, 27 August 2005 02:43 (twenty years ago)

I had to do it, the fucker ate my lasagna. Last week, I saw a bear with no pubes.

― Pundit Pal, Saturday, 27 August 2005 02:50 (twenty years ago)

fuzzy wuzzy wasn't fuzzy, was he?

― latebloomer: funky like a monkey and as cool as a cat (latebloomer), Saturday, 27 August 2005 04:25 (twenty years ago)

a bear with no pubes, you say? how did it smell?

― kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Saturday, 27 August 2005 05:35 (twenty years ago)

as bad as ever!

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 27 August 2005 07:30 (twenty years ago)

snarf!

― kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Saturday, 27 August 2005 15:09 (twenty years ago)

that interview almost makes up for the trent lott blowjob the other night.

― sympath, Saturday, 27 August 2005 16:57 (twenty years ago)

And Carter's continued nuzzling of guys like Fidel undermines his role as international emissary of peace.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 27 August 2005 22:07 (twenty years ago)

"He also played a role in the initiation of anti-Sandinista operations"

I have sympathy for neither the Sandinistas nor the contras (both thugs) and consider it one of the minor triumphs of the last 10 years that Nicaragua and Honduras are doing rather better than could be expected after the U.S.'s addled involvement.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 27 August 2005 22:12 (twenty years ago)

As a big fan of Hitchens, though, I must concede: he came off like an spluttering neocon. If I'd never heard of him, I'd have thought he was Doug Feith or something.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 27 August 2005 22:16 (twenty years ago)

seven months pass...

he interrupts and drunkenly calls colin powell (or maybe richard armitage) a bitch.

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/HardballHitchens.mov

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Thursday, 13 April 2006 21:42 (twenty years ago)

and his beard is totally surrounding his mouth when he says it.

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Thursday, 13 April 2006 21:44 (twenty years ago)

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