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Until Liz Phair and Doug E. collaborate on a rap-rock album extolling the glories of L. Ron, I don't see why anyone gives a damn.

the catholic church doesn't hunt down and sue former catholics into bankruptcy

No, but it's got a long history of killing motherfuckers.

It hasn't been doing that very often these days. On the other hand, the aformentioned cult is as guilty of abuse and molestation as the Catholic Church and has done so in the modern day. And maybe its just me, but I don't see being "anti-choice" to be as offensive as, say, purposely trying to ruin people's lives via litigation and other methods (after all, since when can you remember the Catholic Church recently printing a list of people whom it was okay to kill?).

God is an accepted notion for many people that we are all brought up with. Lord fucking Xenu is not. All your rational analysis of both sides of the situation won't change the obvious difference of heritage/culture/tradition vs. new sci-fi "religion." In 2,000 years it will be normal. Until then, it's fucking ridiculous and so any celebrity I might have respected immediately goes in the mental filing cabinet of dipshits who can't be taken seriously. It's much easier for me to accept that someone is brainwashed by a religion such as Catholicism because brainwashing is fucking hard to undo, especially if it is part of your everday life and it was how the world was first represented to you when you were a child. So, when someone like Mark Wahlberg goes on the Actor's Studio and talks about being born again, I say to myself, "Okay, so he's a little bit of a dipshit, but he's alright."

disclaimer: scientology is pernicious nonsense

if larry david becomes a hubbardite my very soul will be irreparably shattered.

Yeah, but most people who make up fake religions typically do a better job than L.Ron. Jim Jones didn't need space aliens that flew in DC-8s.

http://www.nndb.com/people/212/000092933/miscavige-crop.jpg

He's the Leader of Scientology! And he takes a picture like a character from V. I mean, come on, that is one weird picture.

also his choice in furniture and rug colour = bleagh

He looks like he believes the world is his oyster.

apparently she got involved with scientology in high school!

Also:
http://search.nndb.com/search/nndb.cgi?type=unspecified&query=douchebag

She's a Scientologist at the moment. She said she has taken some lessons and she likes it. It's not like you need to get baptised to become one. You just study with them and don't run away.

rock hudson was a bit unbalanced by most accounts. in a very nice way, but still unbalanced.

christian science was the scientology of the 1930s, by the way: high-profile celebrity initiates, etc. ginger rogers and so forth.

I suppose I'm also surprised by people like Jerry Seinfeld who I always thought of as being at least moderately intelligent.

In Scientology doctrine, Xenu is a galactic ruler who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of people to Earth, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living. These events are known as "Incident II" or "The Wall of Fire," and the traumatic memories associated with them are known as the "R6 implant." Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard detailed the story in Operating Thetan level III in 1967, famously warning that R6 was "calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it." Much controversy between the Church of Scientology and its critics has focused on Xenu. The Church avoids making mention of Xenu in public statements and has gone to considerable effort to maintain the story's confidentiality, including legal action on both copyright and trade secrecy grounds. Critics claim that revealing the story is in the public interest, given the high prices charged for OT III. The Xenu story prompted the use of the volcano as a Scientology symbol.

I suppose Millerite-derived sects and cults such as the JWs and the Adventists have an advantage in that they are structured around "this is almost about to happen". The nonsense history of the Book Of Mormon is clearly rubbish; on the other hand, you can't *prove* that the world won't end tomorrow even though it's highly unlikely.

(although it is obvious that the beliefs of the original Jehovah's Witnesses *were* a load of rubbish - they believed that Armageddon and the rule of Christ on Earth would come in 1914. Or 1915. OK, how about 1918? Or 1920? When that didn't happen either, they decided that it would be within the lifetimes of people alive in 1914. They finally abandoned that doctrine officially in 1994; I suppose it's still possible.)

(xpost)

Scientologists in Haiti

We've spoken to someone who traveled to Haiti on a Scientology plane — and witnessed firsthand the ineptitude, quackery and irresponsibility of the church's minions in a disaster zone. Here's his account...

I arrived at JFK last week, ready to go.

I knew we were traveling with doctors and EMTs, but I didn't expect to see 50 scientologists, in their yellow shirts with Volunteer Minister on them. They were completely unprepared for going to a third world country, let alone a disaster zone. One girl was in designer cowboy boots. I asked her if she'd brought any sturdier footwear.

"Oh no, these'll be fine."

I asked another guy what he'd packed and he said he hadn't bothered to bring soap or toilet paper or food, but that he'd just "buy whatever I need at Port-au-Prince airport." I couldn't break it to him.

They had no place to stay, and no supplies — their idea was to use the ton of money they had to buy food to distribute when they got there. But there was no food and no water. That was the point.

By the time we arrived in Haiti, after a stopover in Miami, we had missed three landing slots at the airport. Aid agencies — genuine aid agencies — from other countries were being turned away, refused permission to land. But we still got a slot straight away. The guy who ran our charter seemed to think that the Scientologists had some real influence with the US Government, who were assigning the slots.

The doctors and EMTs in our party headed straight downtown to start working. The Scientologists had nowhere to go, and nowhere to put up the big yellow tent they'd brought for touch healing people in. They went to the UN, and managed to get on to their list of approved NGOs somehow. That meant they could set up in the UN grounds.

But they had no-one who spoke Creole, and they brought the weirdness of touch healing into a very superstitious society. They'd leave the tent and come into the general hospital downtown, and try healing people. One of the doctors and one of the nurses told me that the wounded started coming to them to tell them they didn't want to be treated by the people in the yellow shirts.

One nurse told me that the Scientologists actually caused harm — they gave food to people who were scheduled to go into surgery. That then led to complications in the operating theater.

On the way back, the plane stopped in Miami and did not go on to New York, stranding all the doctors and EMTs and journalists who expected to get back. After much fighting, the Scientologist representative agreed to fly any of the EMTs that "absolutely couldn't afford the ticket" on Jet Blue from Fort Lauderdale. I heard there were complications but had bought my own ticket because I was fed up with their weirdness.

They had no place to stay, and no supplies — their idea was to use the ton of money they had to buy food to distribute when they got there. But there was no food and no water. That was the point.

funny, but can't believe even scientologists are this dumb

Scientologists promise to stay after Port-au-Prince aid operation

With an operation called The Volunteer Ministry Disaster Relief for Haiti the Scientologists plan to establish a permanent base in the country. Pat Harney, a spokesperson for the operation, said: “I have no doubt that in some form or other there will be a church of Scientology here.” Scientologists were already working to found an orphanage, she added.

I asked another guy what he'd packed and he said he hadn't bothered to bring soap or toilet paper or food, but that he'd just "buy whatever I need at Port-au-Prince airport."

omg

these people are running the world?

Today Show segment on Scientologists in Haiti.

^^^ WOW

That's unreal.

omg

wait why the surprised reactions?

(i'm no fan of scientology, but it doesn't surprise me that the church sent volunteers to haiti)

watch the video through to the end Daniel

you mean the fellow who is now at risk of disease from the cut? yeah, that is frightening. wasn't clear to me that's what drew the reaction.

i thought katie holmes stuck with catholism

oh come on, Today Show, there's e-metering going on and you know it.

vitamins cure aids

OMG that blonde girl in the video. "We don't even MENTION religion!" Uh, except your t-shirts all say "church" and "minister" and for some reason have the Christian cross on them.

The little girl went from tears to smiles after only 20 minutes of dedicated personal face-to-face positive non-invasive upbeat attention! It's a miracle!

wasn't she tickling her?

the giggles were coerced!

surely you mean targeted stimulation of the correct physical receivers to enable happiness and fulfilment>

yes!

^ Knows What's Good For Him

holy christ cut w/used scalpel in haiti

the mind reels

it's all good, he's OTIV

A lot of people are listed as Scientologists for just taking one class or seminar decades back, sometimes not even realizing it was a Scientology front in the first place. Darby Crash is listed as one often just for going to the "Innovative Program School", a Scientology school loosely affiliated with LA's University High School:

"Pat Smear and Darby Crash of The Germs were both fortunate enough to be admitted to an experimental program, the Innovative Program School, a satellite school located on the campus of University High in Santa Monica. Designed for students who didn t fit in to the regular curriculum, the student body included many outcasts and miscreants who would soon form part of the original L.A. punk scene. The regular campus included students like future Black Flag bassist Kira Roessler and Michelle Bell, who would eventually front Vagina Dentata, a post-Germs band which featured Pat on guitar. Uni High alumni from the past included such luminaries as Kim Gordon of Sonic Youth, Kim Fowley and Frank Sinatra Jr.

Pat Smear: "It was like a combination of Scientology and EST Therapy. The first day called "Basic Training", where they yelled at you and said you were assholes for eight hours, and you had to bring a parent with you. If you survived you got to this special school. The teachers were all LSD types, one math teacher was like one of the top mathematicians in the country, and he used to take students on camping trips and have sex orgies with young boys, all kind of stuff like that occurred. The big thing was that the teachers were right, you were never supposed to question anything that they said or told you to do, which of course, we did. We carried around copies of the book "Helter Skelter" like it was a bible, and told everyone I was jesus and he (Darby) was god. We had our little group of LSD friends, and Darby and I started convincing them that the teachers weren't right, and we got all these followers that rebelled. One of them was the head of the school's son, so that didn't help matters. Darby's deal was that he'd get his diploma if he never came back to the school, mine was to go to continuation school of campus. The student council just decided to kick us out of the program, and Lucky Lehrer was on the council!!! He ended up drumming in the Circle Jerks and then for the Darby Crash Band, like he went full circle." "

I bet there's a neat list of people who got kicked out of Transcendental Mediation for being disruptive, but the only two people that come to mind are Andy Kaufman and Steve Jobs.

NYT: Defectors Say Church of Scientology Hides Abuse

Fifty-six years after its founding by the science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard, who died in 1986, the church is fighting off calls by former members for a Reformation. The defectors say Sea Org members were repeatedly beaten by the church’s chairman, David Miscavige, often during planning meetings; pressured to have abortions; forced to work without sleep on little pay; and held incommunicado if they wanted to leave. The church says the defectors are lying.

The defectors say that the average Scientology member, known in the church as a public, is largely unaware of the abusive environment experienced by staff members. The church works hard to cultivate public members — especially celebrities like Tom Cruise, John Travolta and Nancy Cartwright (the voice of the cartoon scoundrel Bart Simpson) — whose money keeps it running.

But recently even some celebrities have begun to abandon the church, the most prominent of whom is the director and screenwriter Paul Haggis, who won Oscars for “Million Dollar Baby” and “Crash.” Mr. Haggis had been a member for 35 years. His resignation letter, leaked to a defectors’ Web site, recounted his indignation as he came to believe that the defectors’ accusations must be true.

“These were not the claims made by ‘outsiders’ looking to dig up dirt against us,” Mr. Haggis wrote. “These accusations were made by top international executives who had devoted most of their lives to the church.”

The church has responded to the bad publicity by denying the accusations and calling attention to a worldwide building campaign that showcases its wealth and industriousness. Last year, it built or renovated opulent Scientology churches, which it calls Ideal Orgs, in Rome; Malmo, Sweden; Dallas; Nashville; and Washington. And at its base here on the Gulf Coast of Florida, it continued buying hotels and office buildings (54 in all) and constructing a 380,000-square-foot mecca that looks like a convention center.

“This is a representation of our success,” said the church’s spokesman, Tommy Davis, showing off the building’s cavernous atrium, still to be clad in Italian marble, at the climax of a daylong tour of the church’s Clearwater empire. “This is a result of our expansion. It’s pinch-yourself material.”

As for the defectors, Mr. Davis called them “apostates” and said that contrary to their claims of having left the church in protest, they were expelled.

“And since they’re removed, the church is expanding like never before,” said Mr. Davis, a second-generation Scientologist whose mother is the actress Anne Archer. “And what we see here is evidence of the fact that we’re definitely better off without them.”