Tour De France 2005

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yes it starts today. Can anyone spoil Lances party? Does anyone apart from me care??? live coverage of the prologue on ITV2 for Brits btw.

zappi (joni), Saturday, 2 July 2005 10:20 (nineteen years ago)

The race airs on Outdoor Life Network here ... they aired a new interview with Lance and he said that Ullrich was no threat to the real climbers ... oh, it's ON beeyotch.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 2 July 2005 12:25 (nineteen years ago)

Who can catch Zabriskie? He set the all-time record for the fastest avg speed TdF time trial!

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 2 July 2005 14:59 (nineteen years ago)

Armstrong has already caught and overtaken Ulrich.

Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Saturday, 2 July 2005 16:10 (nineteen years ago)

What an amazing day for Armstrong, Ullrich is clearly more messed up from yesterday's crash than he's letting on, Mayo screws the pooch as usual in an ITT, and in general everyone's looking like Lance's bitch right now. Again.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 2 July 2005 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

Lance again :(
And my my bet Rogers was NOWHERE..

Ludo (Ludo), Saturday, 2 July 2005 17:07 (nineteen years ago)

I'm in the anyone but lance camp, I have no idea why, I'm following the first tour since I was 9.

Ed (dali), Saturday, 2 July 2005 17:44 (nineteen years ago)

poor Mr Zabriskie - that was a hell of a nasty tumble he took there, unfortunately Eurosport didn't get an interview or even a better angle to see exactly what happened.

I'm still a Lance booster though - he's just a freakishly good cycling assassin.

Porkpie (porkpie), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 20:44 (nineteen years ago)

TTT's don't get any better than this one (even without the drama of the yellow jersey crashing with 1.5 km to go).

Lance and his band of Cycling All-Stars are looking untouchable right now. We're not in the mountains yet and his serious rivals are all trailing him by 1.5 - 2 minutes. In past years, he's blown the race apart in the first couple of days in the mountains, but right now his lead over the GC contenders is large enough that he can bide his time, gauge the strategy of the other teams, and make a move if and/or when he feels like it (keeping in mind that he's also dominated the TT's in 2004-5, with only Ullrich coming anywhere close to his level).

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 20:52 (nineteen years ago)

did you notice just how together Team Lance looked at the end? Didn't look like any of them had dropped out at all, which is a minor miracle, I was feeling very sorry for Grabsch (sp?) from Phonak (iirc) he'd put so much into that and came absolutely nowhere.

Lance will win it on stage 11 methinks - it looks an absolute killer.

No sign of Beloki coming good again though :( and Euskatel did very badly but maybe Iban will come good round stage 10/11

Porkpie (porkpie), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 21:01 (nineteen years ago)

I notice Lance is racing for the Discovery Channel this year. It does make me wonder what weird and wonderful things he's going to find as he cycles around. Sounds more exciting than riding for the US Postal Service anyway.

Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 21:07 (nineteen years ago)

I would LOVE to see Beloki/Jaksche (now with bonus Heras!) try to repeat what they were doing in 2003 before Beloki's crash -- ride aggressively and unpredictably in the mountains, multiple attacks from different riders, wreaking havoc with the pace and catching DiscChan off guard, etc. That strategy was working at the time and who knows how the race would have turned out had Beloki not gotten hurt.

At this moment, it looks like we're headed down the same path as 2002 and 2004, with DiscChan driving the pace in the mountains while everybody else keeps pace for as long as they can, wondering when Lance is going to attack and hoping that they can stay with him when he does. They've got to throw a wrench into Lance's plan or else this race might as well be over right now.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 21:13 (nineteen years ago)

I've got no problem with Armstrong winning it again. It's kind of comforting. Since the first one I watched (Greg Lemond's 8-second victory over Laurent Fignon in 1989) it seems to have been nothing but Indurain and Armstrong. I mean obviously somebody else must have won it, but it's left no imprint in my memory.

Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 21:22 (nineteen years ago)

Just Rijs, Ullrich, and Pantani.
Ullrich's been second five times (three times to Armstrong), which is almost as amazing.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 21:28 (nineteen years ago)

Barney Rice. Yeah, I remember that now - I was on holiday in Greece and loads of annoying Danish people kept going on about it. I don't really remember Ulrich winning though, and I just remember Pantani as a great climber who would never quite win the overall (like Chiapucci), but had a great taste in pirate headgear. They took the Tour de France off Channel 4 over here a few years ago and it's been difficult to follow since then, but now I can watch it again on ITV2.

Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 21:34 (nineteen years ago)

Slate is already running a couple of 'argh, why Lance?' pieces.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 21:37 (nineteen years ago)

Gifford makes many good points in his article. But I disagree about loading the first week with mountain stages, because then the sprinters won't bother coming to the race and the field will look like that F1 debacle from a couple of weeks ago when four cars lined up at the start. The race needs to be attractive for GC and non-GC contenders.

I thought last year was fairly exciting, just to marvel at Lance's incredible performance (particularly after a rough 2003). 2003 was the shit, yes. 2001 was also great because the Ullrich-Armstrong battles were so compelling. 2000 and 2002 were a bit boring and predictable. 1999 was good as Lance surprised everyone by winning. 1998 was very exciting, but for the wrong reasons. 1997 was Ullrich's coming out party, and before that you had the bleh Indurain years, etc.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 22:04 (nineteen years ago)

there's no such thing as a boring one to me. there's usually more going on than just the GC anyway.

noizem duke (noize duke), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 22:27 (nineteen years ago)

Channel 4 dropping it is still a bloody annoyance, even after three or four years without, cos ITV1's highlights just condense the past week into an hour, meaning that individual breakaways and so on are tossed off in a couple of seconds. It worked OK with last night's highlights, but that's because there were only three stages to cover, and two of them were BUNCH SPRINTS which are always fascinating spectacles in any case. Also, Robbie McEwen's attempt to try and lean on Stewie O'Grady was deeply hilarious in its sheer incompetence. i'm going to try and persuade Dad to get Freeview so we can get the ITV2 daily highlights, though it probably won't happen.

William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 23:15 (nineteen years ago)

I'm surprised at the shoddy coverage in the UK -- I was in Germany during the last couple of summers, and Eurosport's coverage was fantastic. They aired almost every stage in its entirety. Cycling is a lot more popular on the continent, but still, ITV's super-truncated highlight reel sounds pathetic.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 23:21 (nineteen years ago)

ITV2 has an hour of highlights in prime time at 7PM. True, it sucks if you don't have the channel. Made by the same production team who do the Eurosport coverage and who used to do the Channel 4 shows.

Armstrong's going to - ha ha - walk it this year.

James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 23:57 (nineteen years ago)

That is the comforting thing - commentary duos rarely get much better than Liggett and Sherwen - though the amount of decent jokes either has cracked in their careers can be counted on the fingers of no hands, their analytical skills, their ability to pick individual riders out of a seemingly completely indistinguishable mass, the way in which they flow with each other so perfectly and the way that they can build and sustain the story and the tension of a stage is really quite something. Gary Imlach's a much under-rated anchorman too (have you ever seen him smile? Ever?), and, astoundingly for an ITV sport reporter, Ned Boulting is actually rather funny, even if the condensed hour means he gets hardly any input at all. Still, you'd take the ten-second bit of him asking Zabriskie what he'd do with his second cuddly lion over the entire broadcast careers of Schmeichel, Reid and McCoist put together. Plus they now have Chris Boardman doing analysis, and Chris was the feller that really gave me an anchor for loving the Tour - me and my Dad's hero, which meant that we usually ended up cheering the Gan/Credit Agricole boys over everyone else. Happy, happy times. Admittedly, Chris being Chris these times were usually over by the mountains (at which point began our adulation of Marco Pantani, though his repeated STICKING IT TO JAN ULLRICH definitely helped there), but happy, happy times nonetheless.

Plus which the feller that does the cycling on the BBC isn't very good.

William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 00:19 (nineteen years ago)

Hmm. I often find that if you pretty much bet on the opposite of whatever Phil Liggett is predicting or describing, you're usually in good shape. It's like he's completely detached from what is happening on the road. His statement of race theory is almost always correct; his application of it to that which is unfolding before him, however, is ass. I enjoy his utter inability to learn the correct pronunciation of anything non-English. And then there's the hyperbole. And yet, I like him enough, especially the "oh, yes, he's digging deep into his suitcase of courage, there" type of shit he does. He's less irritating than say, Dick Vitale.

That TTT was deeply unsatisfying for me. Not like I knew Zabriskie was gonna crash, but after watching Disco go through the chicanes in town, I was pretty concerned that something would go awry for somebody either on Disco or CSC. Fast, fast, fast.

While I wait for Armstrong to have a bad day, there's plenty of storylines to follow. What stage will Horner try to slay in order to grab back some of the 5 minutes he's already trailing? When will McEwan time his move properly to get his stage(s)? Will the French win a stage this year (christ, they look TERRIBLE)? Will T-Mobile rally to Vinokourov instead of Ullrich? If Ullrich pulls himself into contention, will he do the proper thing and punch his sorry-ass boss Godefroot in the mouth? This is why the Tour is great--it's like all the storylines of the Superbowl, times 9 teams times 20 days.

Hunter (Hunter), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 02:26 (nineteen years ago)

does greg lemonde still play cycling?

phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 02:38 (nineteen years ago)

What stage will Horner try to slay in order to grab back some of the 5 minutes he's already trailing?

One of the stages this weekend (July 10?) is reputedly the sort of long-breakaway stage that Virenque used to always exploit.

I'm not sure I'm buying all the "turmoil within T-Mobile!" doomsayers -- the press is having a field day with this stuff and I can't be bothered to try separating the facts from the rumours. We certainly won't know anything until the mountains, just like last year with Kloeden/Ullrich.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 02:56 (nineteen years ago)

does greg lemonde still play cycling?

He, or at least his name, makes bicycles.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 04:45 (nineteen years ago)

They just previewed the last km before the finish, and it's *insane*, as there's a hairpin turn with 500 m to go that is about ten metres wide. If the rain and drizzle continues like this, expect a crash.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 13:46 (nineteen years ago)

Hooray! Er, wait.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 13:46 (nineteen years ago)

Eh, after seeing the preview of the run-in I thought two things--disaster and McEwen (the finest bike handler in cycling). No disaster, fortunately, but McEwen got it. He's a bit of a prick but wow can he drive a bike.

Hunter (Hunter), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 14:11 (nineteen years ago)

I would be so happy if Armstrong lost, he is such an evil, smug, Crowe-shagging bastard.

Leon C. (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 14:17 (nineteen years ago)

LANCE ARMSTRONG IS BOFFING RUSSELL CROWE? HOW COME NOBODY TOLD ME??

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 14:30 (nineteen years ago)

Because then Crowe would have to throw a phone at you.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 14:31 (nineteen years ago)

All sprinters are pricks, though. And the slight uphill finish probably favoured McEwen too.

After the crash with 3 km to go, it's possible that the pack took it a little easier through that nasty turn later on.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 14:34 (nineteen years ago)

Yes, sprinters must not be only pushy, but shove-y, it's how it gets done. It's just that McEwen tends to point and complain a bit in addition. I agree about the determining factors today, I don't think in the end that the technical nature of the last 1k was a source of McEwen's win.

Did you see how fast Hushovd looked to be coming on? Exactly what Itchy and Scratchy Cooke and Eisel were doing was unclear. Weird leadout, lack of firepower from the back, but also no clean lane given.

Hunter (Hunter), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

Exactly what Itchy and Scratchy Cooke and Eisel were doing was unclear.

Yes, this was very strange. The leadout from FdJ was there in the last 500m but the sprint from Cooke and Eisel never happened. IIRC, Boonen was also trapped near the rails during the leadout, but managed to swing out closer to the middle for the sprint, so maybe Itchy and Scratchy were cut off, I don't know.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 15:45 (nineteen years ago)

I haven't seen the Tour on the telly for several years now (only just got freeview). Tell me, will I still be treated to a)Gary Imlach zooming through the Alps on a giant motorized chocolate eclair, and b)El Diablo, the lunatic dressed up as the devil with his giant bicycle?

Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

They don't show the ad caravan too much on OLN here. But they always show Didi Senft(or something like that) with his pitchfork.

Did anyone catch the pre-race interview with Armstrong explaining his attempt to forego the yellow jersey? It was like, all the right words were coming out, but the delivery was so unconvincing. The body language was all wrong. You could see his jaw muscles clenching (hard) as picked his way through the explanation. I don't think he believed a word he said. I don't think he's eeeeevil, but if he wants to do politics, he's got to learn how to sell a nice story better.

Hunter (Hunter), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 18:33 (nineteen years ago)

he is such an evil, smug, Crowe-shagging bastard.

?!

Oh shut up. I'd like to see someone give him a run this year, but this kind of "hate the winner" sorta stuff is just stupid.

giboyeux (skowly), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 18:36 (nineteen years ago)

(Whoah. When did I turn into such a schoolmarm? Retraction: fire away.)

giboyeux (skowly), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 18:39 (nineteen years ago)

I sort of like Armstrong- he's certainly impressive- but 'talented rider who may or may not take drugs (and if not, definitely consorts with them that hand them out) trains for one event annually and then inevitably wins it' is one hell of a dull story. As dull as many of Shirley Crowe's records (thank you Daily Mirror circa 1987). He's no Cannibal, for sure.
Vinokourov for podium I think, perhaps top. Boonen for green if he doesn't kill anyone.

Would the Tour be improved if it was made open i.e. all drugs permitted if declared? Racing cyclists lose ten years of life on average, medicated or not, so who exactly is being protected here.

snotty moore, Wednesday, 6 July 2005 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

Would the Tour be improved if it was made open i.e. all drugs permitted if declared? Racing cyclists lose ten years of life on average, medicated or not, so who exactly is being protected here.

This would probably change nothing as they're all on drugs anyway.

Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 20:08 (nineteen years ago)

Probably.

Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 20:08 (nineteen years ago)

"This would probably change nothing as they're all on drugs anyway."

OTM.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 20:10 (nineteen years ago)

Obviously I believe that watching lunatics with haemmoroids cycling up a mountain while on drugs is the greatest joy sport can provide. But isn't the drug issue tied in with the suffering. Henri 'HD' Desgranges always believed the ideal Tour would have only one finisher, who would die crossing the line (rough paraphrase). Hence the problem with EPO (say) from an athletic view is that it removes the challenge of pain, by making the unendurable relatively achieveable. (I'm not deluding myself that a course of blood boosters would allow me or any other overweight city cyclist to race up cols).
Tour riders were on drugs even back when they had to ride through woods which were full of bears shitting, true. But are these different?

snotty moore, Wednesday, 6 July 2005 21:00 (nineteen years ago)

I think that the quality of performance changes over time, but the suffering doesn't. Climbing cols is more "achievable", but everyone is climbing them faster than they did 30-40 years ago.

"Suffering" could be (very roughly) defined scientifically in terms of %age of maximum output. Due to drugs, the maximum output (in Watts) is larger, but the %age of maximum output at which they cycle can remain constant.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 21:16 (nineteen years ago)

More precisely, suffering = %Max x time. One year, you might climb a hill in 10 min at 80%Max, then you get into better shape and can climb it in 5 min at 80%Max, because you're going faster and therefore suffering less. So drugs can decrease overall suffering by lessening the time you need to spend on the hill, but the pain of the climb (call it "instantaneous suffering") is probably just as bad as it always was.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 21:22 (nineteen years ago)

BTW, I'm thinking out loud here. I could be wrong.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 6 July 2005 21:23 (nineteen years ago)

I've heard, or read, reports from riders who admit to some kind of psychological addiction to EPO simply because it makes the job that much easier. Has anyone experimented with placebos? (Probably not, unless they're in the Tour of Britain)
The pain issue is not necessarily relevant, as tolerance of pain surely varies between individuals. Big Lance can take it and give it out.

snotty moore, Wednesday, 6 July 2005 22:42 (nineteen years ago)

i think the tendency is for dopers to feel that their success is not due to the drugs. Because after all, they still must do the hard work--it don't come for free. They're just...faster.

The other thing with EPO is that it supposedly really speeds recovery, which is so key in a SR-- or in a period of intense "crashing" for SR training.

Has anyone experimented with placebos?

I'm sure the clients paying the Dr. Ferraris of the cycling world would be pretty pissed to find out they're not getting the good shit.

Hunter (Hunter), Thursday, 7 July 2005 02:01 (nineteen years ago)

Tomorrow's stage is the one I was referring to earlier -- ripe for a Virenque-style long breakaway. Can't wait.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 8 July 2005 18:46 (nineteen years ago)

although looking at the overall, hincapie wasn't too far back. so many good americans now tho, and lance gets the guy today who can't quite cut it. i mean wow, horner was in there too. landis attacking, julich kicking ass. don't even miss hamilton to be honest.

noizem duke (noize duke), Saturday, 9 July 2005 14:38 (nineteen years ago)

best stage so far, everyone attacking lance was v. entertaining. he managed to counter everyone he saw as a threat though - i wonder who is going to be able to keep up with him when he decides to start attacking? also impressed with valverde, he really is a good future prospect.

zappi (joni), Saturday, 9 July 2005 19:15 (nineteen years ago)

Oh how I love Freeview. This is the first time I've been able to watch the Tour for a few years. Now I've just got to try to get the boyfriend, or any friend, to watch it too. I don't really follow sports, but thanks to my Dad I know stupid amounts of stuff about the tour. The looks of confusion on friends faces when I start trying to explain about points and teams and jerseys is fantastic.

Anyway... todays stage looked great. I think if I'd been Kloden, losing by a pixel I'd be just a bit gutted. Lance did well keeping up with all the attacks, but can he keep that up for the next 2 weeks without some help from his team?

bilblio (Celeste), Saturday, 9 July 2005 21:15 (nineteen years ago)

Such fun to watch. Finally, T-Mobile have some new tricks. Why didn't CSC and Liberty work harder with I-B to pull it back? I couldn't tell from the coverage how organized they were, but it looked like they both sat up after a sortie by Julich. Granted, beating Valverde would have been just as unlikely, but I'd want to give the Germans--Voigt and Jaksche-- a shot at that win. Still, I can also see wanting all chiefs and lieutenants to hoard energy in advance of tomorrow.

Horner, whom I think usually is one astute mofo, commented "I mean let's just sacrifice two guys on the front and bring 'em back and go for the stage win. Or just sit up and let Lance lose the maximum time. Hey it's one or the other. You either play for the win, or one or the other." Of course, the former woulda been great for him, he is a decent finisher. Tomorrow might be a good stage for him to try and stick something to the finish.

At one point Ligett noted Boogerd's presence and stated that he'd be a hopeful for a sprint and I thought "oh, Phil, even with a bunch of climbers, he'd mess it up."

Hunter (Hunter), Saturday, 9 July 2005 23:13 (nineteen years ago)

Still, I can also see wanting all chiefs and lieutenants to hoard energy in advance of tomorrow.

They felt they'd made their point via all those attacks on the ascent, once the group of ~ 40 made it down the descent without catching the leaders their only concern was finishing with Lance.

Despite Kloeden's great performance, today's stage still reinforced the notion that he's a distant third in the T-Mobile pecking order. Vino looked like he had the legs to win today but obviously there was no chance he was getting away.

We ended up getting a long breakaway win after all -- sort of ...

Anyhow, this was not only the best stage so far this year, but it might have better than any stage last year ... FINALLY, the race is on with 10-12 riders lining up to attack Lance and fuck shit up. Where was Disco on that climb -- they were in total disarray, the exact opposite of nearly every major climb in last year's Tour.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 9 July 2005 23:43 (nineteen years ago)

OLN is doing *five* hours of live coverage tomorrow -- anybody waking up at 6:30? I'm tempted ...

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 9 July 2005 23:47 (nineteen years ago)

For me it would be at 4:30--no way. I might ride early in the morning and watch the replay, since it's been like 95 degrees every day here for the past week. I thought I was gonna have a stroke. And I like it hot.

Hunter (Hunter), Sunday, 10 July 2005 01:56 (nineteen years ago)

I'm watching a repeat of past years -- Disco has shelled the entire field, and Lance's chase group is down to about 20 riders. This is it right here.

Sastre tried to attack, but the pace was too fast for him to get anywhere. Nobody even flinched when he tried it. Once the next Disco rider drops back then somebody needs to attack again.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 12 July 2005 13:49 (nineteen years ago)

Armstrong cannot lose unless he falls off a mountain. He has as much luck as talent, which defines a champion I guess. Rasmussen will walk the pea jersey. That's a bit dull. Eurosport are playing 'My Doorbell' by the White Stripes as backing music- presumably they expected CSC to be doing better.

snotty moore, Tuesday, 12 July 2005 15:28 (nineteen years ago)

It was actually depressing for me to watch for the first 15 klicks up to Courchevel as I witnessed the complete domination. By the time Armstrong was advising Popovych to floor it, I settled into respectful acceptance. Don't be bored yet, snotty, we got a long way to slide. One fall, one jour sans, you never know.

Hunter (Hunter), Tuesday, 12 July 2005 16:46 (nineteen years ago)

And how does Hincapie end up second last to Popovych on the train in? He is really a fantastic all-rounder. To race as hard as he does in the Spring and then come good for the TdF as he does is amazing.

Hunter (Hunter), Tuesday, 12 July 2005 16:52 (nineteen years ago)

i can't wait to watch this tonite

noizem duke (noize duke), Tuesday, 12 July 2005 17:20 (nineteen years ago)

And how does Hincapie end up second last to Popovych on the train in?

That happened last year too, on the route to La Mongie ... the entire peloton was shelled, including several GC contenders, by the time Hincapie's turn at the front was done. In fact, today's stage was almost an instant replay of that one from 2004, right down to Armstrong dropping his rivals one by one and getting outsprinted at the finish for the stage win (last year it was Basso).

Rasmussen was amazing -- keeping up with Armstrong only two days after his 160km+ breakaway win. Can he possibly keep riding at this level?

Nearly as amazing -- Disco chased the breakaway during the flats leading to Courchavel, trimming an eight minute lead down to about three in only about half an hour, and they STILL had enough in the tank to shell the entire peloton on the climb.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 12 July 2005 17:34 (nineteen years ago)

Clarification -- Hincapie was about 4th last in the train on the 2004 La Mongie stage, my point was, he was able to break up the race even before the serious climbers got their chance to set the pace.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 12 July 2005 17:36 (nineteen years ago)

Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwin on ITV2 seem to think that Rasmussen is a hot young talent. I make him thirty one. Is that right? He looked very comfortable today however old he is. Valverde looks thirty one already.

snotty moore, Tuesday, 12 July 2005 18:54 (nineteen years ago)

They did correct themselves on Rasmussen at one point. What I can't stand is the way they butcher the pronounciation of names. They're OK with French, but their German is horrible. Part of me was praying for the Disco train to hurry up and chase down the break just so I didn't have to hear them try to say Jorg Jaksche's name again (yaks? yask? yashk? wtf were they saying?).

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 12 July 2005 19:13 (nineteen years ago)

True, but compared to the great David Duffield they're like UN translators. Spanish names are the most commonly massacred, probably because the pronunciation just deosn't come easy to the English (hand vhice vhersa) . How much German do they need anyway? Voigt, Kloeden, Ullrich- it's not crucial.

snotty moore, Wednesday, 13 July 2005 10:57 (nineteen years ago)

Why am I a bit surprised that Vino bounced back like this after getting crushed yesterday?

The pace on the climbs wasn't as fast as yesterday, but a) today's climbs were longer, b) Disco had already taken serious time out of their rivals the day before and had the luxury of coasting on that lead. That said, I started getting the feeling that a lot of guys are just trying to keep pace with Lance and protect their top 10/top 15 position on GC. T-Mobile and Phonak are excused because they had guys up the road, but where were the other teams on the Galibier? What was CSC doing? Why were all of these guys content to climb at George Hincapie's pace rather than move to the front or attack -- at the very least, to keep Lance on his toes and make his team do a bit more work?

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 15:17 (nineteen years ago)

I was impressed by Vino today, but most of all I'm curious about Rasmussen. He's only forty seconds behind and looked comfortable again. There are some interesting hilly stages in the last week too. If he made another solo break I'd be interested to see if Armstrong would go with him. I'm not convinced that the Disco team could haul him in.
(What am I saying? Lance will walk it.)

snotty moore, Wednesday, 13 July 2005 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

Rasmussen is having the ride(s) of his life, so other teams now have an interest in reeling him in if he attacks. This is fine with me -- I'm all for multiple attacks/reel-ins, not to mention that everyone who isn't named Ullrich has to figure out a way to get a 3-4 minute lead on Armstrong between now and the ITT, and riding pace behind Hincapie isn't going to accomplish that.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 15:52 (nineteen years ago)

You're right, but he's riding so well I wonder just how many teams might hurt themselves in the process. Action! It's like 20th century cycling! (Actually Lance is better than Big Mig ever was)

snotty moore, Wednesday, 13 July 2005 16:20 (nineteen years ago)

Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwin on ITV2 seem to think that Rasmussen is a hot young talent. I make him thirty one. Is that right?

Is this true? What has he been doing for the last ten years?

Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 17:51 (nineteen years ago)

Mountain biking.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 17:58 (nineteen years ago)

Two things he appears NOT to have been doing for the past 10 years:

Eating
Tanning

Hunter (Hunter), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 19:35 (nineteen years ago)

Tanning -- he's Danish, he can't help it.
Eating -- that dude is seriously skinny. I'm surprised he was a mountain biker, since that requires more upper body strength than road cycling. Also, the body goes through more jarring, impactful abuse, I'm surprised he didn't snap in half. Maybe he dropped a lot of weight while making the changeover.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 21:11 (nineteen years ago)

he was world champion mountain biker no less.

here's a question. if you ran the disco team, who would be your leader next year?

snotty moore, Thursday, 14 July 2005 08:49 (nineteen years ago)

John Travolta.

Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 14 July 2005 09:28 (nineteen years ago)

once, yeah, but these days?

snotty moore, Thursday, 14 July 2005 10:59 (nineteen years ago)

I thought today's stage was pretty thrilling watching for the last 20k (which is about all I saw, except for some of Lotto's chasing earlier).

So, you're Horner at 900m, what do you do when Chavanel starts flicking his elbow and easing up?

Hunter (Hunter), Friday, 15 July 2005 23:10 (nineteen years ago)

"I'm going to so Lance Armstrong this guy and chase down any move he ever makes just for spite"

Rotgutt (Rotgutt), Saturday, 16 July 2005 01:52 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, the finish was thrilling, and I remember a Tour stage from three or four years ago that had a nearly identical finish (two leaders play cat-and-mouse and get caught by the pack in the final 200 m).

Horner really didn't have a choice. Chavanel hadn't been in the break and was about 100x fresher. He had no chance to win unless Chavanel led him out. They needed a 30-second lead, not an 8-second one.

Speaking of thrilling -- what I'm watching NOW is thrilling. The layout of this stage was reminding me of the route to Luz Ardiden in 2003. Then, Ullrich attacked on the 2nd last climb and shelled the peloton along with several GC contenders. However, a lot of the top guys rejoined him on the descent, and on the final climb, Ullrich couldn't (or wouldn't) attack. Armstrong and Mayo crashed, Armstrong got good and pissed off, won the stage and essentially the Tour as well.

Thus far, this stage has been an instant replay of Luz Ardiden (nobody has crashed though).

30 Bangin' Tunes That You've Already Got ... IN A DIFFERENT ORDER! (Barry Brune, Saturday, 16 July 2005 13:27 (nineteen years ago)

And so it goes ... Ullrich cracked in the final km.

Poor Totschnig has had about five seconds of face time today :(

30 Bangin' Tunes That You've Already Got ... IN A DIFFERENT ORDER! (Barry Brune, Saturday, 16 July 2005 13:38 (nineteen years ago)

And then Totschnig neglected to zip up. So much for exposure.

I'm surprised Hinault didn't slap him in the face as he cried on the podium and tell him to get a fucking grip.

Hunter (Hunter), Saturday, 16 July 2005 20:34 (nineteen years ago)

Jesus, this is spectacular.

Who had Hincapie in the Stage 15 pool?

30 Bangin' Tunes That You've Already Got ... IN A DIFFERENT ORDER! (Barry Brune, Sunday, 17 July 2005 14:07 (nineteen years ago)

So who's fucking leading? Becuse ESPNs coverage is jingoisitc and useless.

Jimmy Mod Is Sick of Being The Best At Everything (ModJ), Sunday, 17 July 2005 14:18 (nineteen years ago)

Hincapie won the stage, which boggles the mind.

Ullrich exploded in the last two or three km, just like yesterday, which might have cost him a spot on the podium. But Basso and Armstrong have clearly been the class of the Tour.

30 Bangin' Tunes That You've Already Got ... IN A DIFFERENT ORDER! (Barry Brune, Sunday, 17 July 2005 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

i missed this stage (tired of tv) but this picture...it's funny.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41313000/jpg/_41313517_hincapiewin.jpg

caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Sunday, 17 July 2005 22:28 (nineteen years ago)

yey for winning your first stage in ten years, boo for sitting on everyones wheels until the last 200 yards. its so unsporting old bean.

zappi (joni), Sunday, 17 July 2005 23:50 (nineteen years ago)

Said a rather pissed Pereiro at the finish line: "I asked him [Hincapie] to work, as we had to collaborate to battle it out in a sprint - but he didn't. Sometimes it's not the strongest that wins. I think I showed I was one the guys that wanted this stage the most. I thought there was victory in it for me, but that's life... I'll continue trying and one day I hope to be rewarded. Now, I'll continue to help Floyd [Landis] get on the podium."

30 Bangin' Tunes That You've Already Got ... IN A DIFFERENT ORDER! (Barry Brune, Monday, 18 July 2005 00:25 (nineteen years ago)

It was inevitable. Hincapie probably could have dropped him any time on the last climb, but waiting for a sprint was safer.

Rotgutt (Rotgutt), Monday, 18 July 2005 00:30 (nineteen years ago)

It was in compliance with the accepted tactical practice, it just wasn't quite "beautiful" to me. Hincapie might have elected to ride upon assurance that MJ was not going to catch.

I suspect Rottgut is right that after his armchair ride, Hincapie could have wasted Peirero 3ks earlier, had he wanted to do. We'll never know.

Hunter (Hunter), Monday, 18 July 2005 03:30 (nineteen years ago)

Ullrich put 36 seconds into Chicken Man today -- a podium place looks a hell of a lot more likely now.

Watching Der Kaiser blow the pack apart during the past couple of days has been loads of fun.

30 Bangin' Tunes That You've Already Got ... IN A DIFFERENT ORDER! (Barry Brune, Thursday, 21 July 2005 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

Wait, it was Basso's attack that blew things apart today on the final climb (although I didn't see how 90% of the peloton got dropped on the next-to-last climb). Regardless, great effort by Lance, Basso, Evans, and Ullrich.

30 Bangin' Tunes That You've Already Got ... IN A DIFFERENT ORDER! (Barry Brune, Thursday, 21 July 2005 14:20 (nineteen years ago)

Riis proclaimed post-stage that Basso is better than Armstrong on the climbs and had him in trouble. Bjarne--you already got CSC to re-up, you gave Basso more cash, you don't have to exaggerate shit for a few days, k?

I suspect there's no GC guy who knows better how to ride right on his limit as Leipheimer, but boy, it makes him the least dynamic racer ever. He's like the anti-Vino.

Hunter (Hunter), Thursday, 21 July 2005 21:18 (nineteen years ago)

Haha - Chicken Man! That man's like wire isn't he? Built like a matchstick with the wood shaved off, as they say. Even in the peloton he looks stick thin. Think that Rasmussen has given good value in the KOTMs though - don't ever remember Virenque being up there with the big boys the whole time in the last few years. I'm getting to be quite the Jan fan now, but I do hope that Rasmussen can hang in there. Mountain biking not ideal pedigree for time-trials though, so like Cadel Evans too maybe, I think he's going to be up a pipe on that one.

Keep wanting someone to adjust Vino's saddle for him. He always looks uncomfortably low to me. Makes him look like a duck. Rides like one too, the way he keeps bobbing back up.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 22 July 2005 07:39 (nineteen years ago)

The way Ullrich rode, Rasmussen didn't have a chance even without the crashes and bike changes.

It was annoying how OLN kept trying to project the finishing times of the riders based on their split times -- illogical and totally innacurate.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 23 July 2005 15:18 (nineteen years ago)

What a nightmare ride for Rasmussen. I think he got totally stressed by the first crash, and from that point on he just lost the ability to ride naturally. Some of those corners he was taking so slowly and deliberately, and that superman he did over the bars... WTF?

Sherwen was on strange form too: twice he claimed Armstrong was riding all the corners "without changing his trajectory". Wuh?!? Barry, is that at all possible in physics? I want a diagram! And all that "not a blip on the horizon" stuff I didnt understand whatsoever. Was he having flashbacks to being a U-boat captain? Still, I think he might just have redeemed himself when he said that Rasmussen would have "a tough sandwich to eat" when he looked back at his ride later on.

NickB (NickB), Saturday, 23 July 2005 17:52 (nineteen years ago)

I laughed at the "trajectory" comment too -- and the "sandwich" line was indeed awesome. Right now, I'm picturing Rasmussen chewing on a gristle-filled goat meat sandwich on stale bread.

I could swear that Sherwin used the line "he's all over his machine" to describe a good ride and a bad ride, but I believe he does that a lot.

I was impressed with how agressively Armstrong attacked some of those corners, even in the latter third of the race when he knew that the yellow jersey, if not the stage win, was sewn up. Then again, Lance probably rode that TT route about 20 times over the winter.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 23 July 2005 18:26 (nineteen years ago)

Leipheimer got pwned. He got what he deserved for watching wheels for three weeks.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 24 July 2005 23:56 (nineteen years ago)

Yes he deserved sixth place--which is fucking awesome.

I'm interested to see ASO's accounting of its action. I think that an extension of the 3k rule would have been a logical course of action, but I'm looking at the the Tour regulations and they say that the 3k rule operates as follows:

"In the event a rider or riders suffer a fall, puncture or mechanical incident after passing the “red flame,” and such an incident is duly recognised, in the last 3 kilometres, the rider or riders involved are credited with the same finishing time of the rider or riders they were with at the time of the incident. They are attributed this ranking only upon crossing the finish line."

Now, this is not at all what was described in the media reports that I've seen. The official Tour website Newsflash states:

"Jean-Francois Pescheux, the Tour’s sporting director, has just announced that the time for the general classification of the final stage will be taken on the first pass of the finish line.
The peloton will still complete the eight laps of the Champs Elysees circuit but that is just to determine the stage winner.
This decision has been made because it has been raining in Paris and the organizers fear for falls in the closing kilometers of the race."

The rule book only states, "If the road surface of the Champs-Elysees has become slippery before the riders reach it, then the [finishing] times may be taken for the first crossing of the finish line.... [R]iders and Sports Managers will be informed immediately. In any event, riders must complete all of the circuits of the Champs-Elysees to be ranked at the final finish." With respect to bonuses, the rules book states that "bonuses are awarded at all in line finishes," and that the race mgmt "reserves the right to move or cancel some intermediate sprints for which bonuses are awarded." It does not allow for the cancellation of finish bonuses explicitly, at least by my quick reading.

This is obviously very different to the 3k rule, crediting a fallen/waylayed rider with the time of his group. Since the rules state that the intermediate bonuses may be scrubbed, but that all in line stages get finish bonuses, I'd say that Leipheimer was treated fairly. Furthermore, if they had any doubt about the rule, they should have thrown everyone up there to try to avoid what occurred.

Hunter (Hunter), Monday, 25 July 2005 03:06 (nineteen years ago)


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