If you are religious, how did you get that way and why did you stay that way?

Actually, he's right -- any faith is welcome, so long as you don't post on about how Christianity Is The Most Evil of All Religions. So go ahead, Trayce -- post away!

Without apologizing for the fundamentalist extremists who annoy me as much as they annoy everyone else, and without criticizing different demonimations or doctrines, I'll just focus on my personal experience.

I was raised Presbyterian, which is very different from your experience, Dee. My particular brand of Presbyterianism is very Calvinistic, meaning there is no priest to intervene, forgive you, or make you feel better. You are on your own and what you do is between you and God. What other people do is also between them and God, and it's not for me to judge it.

As I got older, I became interested in comparative religion, history, anthropology, and mysticism. I learned a lot about how rich the Old and New Testament are in terms of historical, cultural, and mystic--I was going to say "lore" here but that sounds a little too Tolkein--I'll say data instead.

I was also interested in the history of the development of the philosophy and organization of various branches of Judaism and Christianity, and in the "heretics", and what made them so. I have quite an intellectual interest in all of it, and it led to me to Anthropology major as an undergrad at UCLA. Why Anthropology? Because UCLA Comparative Religion major only dealth with Western religions and cultural anthropology was an opportunity to study *all* religions.

In terms of my personal faith, belief in God helped the Jews through the Holocaust, and it helped me though any number of personal tragedies and events over which I had no control. I have also had a direct mystic experience with the divine, where I felt God's love for all creatures, felt his perspective, and will never forget that. That's why I stay that way.

Socially, I think that religion affects your morals--if you aren't raised with the Golden Rule (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you) where do you pick this up? Sadly, I have found out in life that many people don't pick it up at all, and everyone suffers. Life is more unpleasant where people don't care what happens to others.

That is my story in a nutshell.

fun fact: when i was in jr high, the youth group went to a STRYPER concert. The band thru out felt-covered Bibles from stage! i was too young to go, tho.

always preferred sunday school to the sermons, since our pastor got increasingly conservative over the years(tho this was before my political awakening of sorts), and i preferred the more academic aspect of it. the guy who taught sunday school for high schoolers was an auto engineer for GM, and had the knowin' of a lot of things, to quote from Max.

Went to youth group stuff occasionally in jr high & high school.

Discovering Joseph Campbell & his ideas about comparative religion when i was 17-18 evolved my beliefs a bit(and firmed them up, too, as Bill Moyers once noted in his conversations on "the Power of Myth"). Thanks to George Lucas for popularizing Campbell again.

with that background, it made me understand Nietzsche a lot more when i finally encountered him in my first existentialism class when i was 20.

I very quickly pulled away from organised christian religion not long after that for various reasons (which are a long story for another time), but I guess I wanted somethign, because I was reading up on wicca, buddhism etc, wondering what fit. I didnt want to "worship" a god or have a faith but I did, and still do, want some kind of way of explaining or understanding the immense complexity and chaos of the universe.

Quakers have interested me with their approach, as have the Unitarians a socialist friend of mine is involved with (a sort of non-faith church?). But it was Taoism that I found most appealing and, well... COMFORTING. And I realise thats what it is all about in the end, to find your own way, your own bit of peace with your short time on this earth, and to try and do good.

If for some that works being christian, thats cool with me. I am saddened that for some, their religion is totally not about comfort and peace and good works but about fear and misery and persecution. Thats a real shame.

My b/f is completely logic-scientific pure "there is no spirit" sort of person. And thats cool as well, even though I am way too much in awe of how baffling the universe is to ever think there is a completely clinical and explainable solution to it all. I like to think of the movie "Pi" - understanding the number, and thus the whole universe, would kill you to know it. We're just not meant to really.

I am saddened that for some, their religion is totally not about comfort and peace and good works but about fear and misery and persecution. Thats a real shame.

You are totally OTM there. I too am dismayed with the rampant fundamentalism of certain individuals, whose thoughts and actions shine a harsh and unelarged light on the rest of the adherents of the faith systems these zealots claim to believe in.

I don't think that religion requires belonging to an organization. Buddhism is a religion but the majority of adherents don't belong to an organization. Same with Taoism.

xpost to jon

Hence my disclaimer :) But there is also a religious branch of taoism that has ritual and structure - it was banned for a long time by the government/emperor in China, I believe.

I'll have a think and answer in a bit.

I've been moving back towards Faith Of My Fathers from gentle agnosticism for some time. I'm just trying to figure out which bits are relevant right now.

-- The Kind and Benevolent Oracle of Dee (newromanti...), July 14th, 2005.

yes

-- huell howser (chaki.tim...), July 14th, 2005.

(preemptory note: If you hate Christianity, please don't post anything on this thread. I don't want this to end up being a nonstop series of posts about why those of us who are Christian are stupid for believing what we believe in. I personally respect the rights of those of you who are atheist/agnostic to believe what you believe, so I expect the same in return.)

did you not understand?

Both my parents were raised as atheists, but rationalist scientist grandparents.

My mother had never even seen a bible, let alone read one. When she moved to a new house in Hertfordshire, the people who lived there before her had left a bible in the house. She picked it up, thinking nothing of it, and read it like a novel. It completely blew her mind, concepts she'd never even thought of before. So she looked up the local church in the phone book, demanded "Send someone round to explain this now!" and they sent the curate. Who happened to be one of those rare priests (a monk now, and my godfather) who is both incredibly caring and compassionate, and rigourously intellectual.

The whole household converted, except my father. (Who went to bible studies along with my mum, and reported afterwards "well, now I know *exactly* what I don't believe.) I was very very devout at first - I loved the community (you cannot underestimate the power of this for a family who have moved so much) and especially the singing and music.

Must do some work now, my reports have finished compiling. More in a bit.

xpost...i don't claim to be certain. i just have faith that there isn't one. i believe that god doesn't exist. i don't know that this is true, same as real religion.

My Christianity is an incredibly private issue for me. I take very much to heart what Jesus said about closing the door of your room when you pray, that standing in the street striking your breast in front of everyone is a little bit less-than-sincere.

I went to most Christian churches while growing up, attending Baptist vacation bible schools and Pentecostal revivals. However, I was baptized and raised as a Roman Catholic, which in rural Arkansas is considered a bit "ethnic", if you can believe it.

I had a really great priest at my parish, Father Davis. He took a lot of time to have one-on-one talks with me about my parents' divorce. He had a great sense of humor. And I happily served as an altar boy with him.

Both of my parents remarried Catholics. My step-mother came from a large Irish Catholic family, and on Sundays, I'd watch her kneel silently while everyone else took Communion. She finally admitted to me that she couldn't take it because in the Eyes of God, she was an adultress for divorcing her first husband and marrying my father.

This, among many other things (most recently the Nazi Pope), has led me to abandon the Church. However, in the same way that I love my country and hate my government, I still retain my faith in God and that Christ is His Son. My reasons for doing so are very strong and very personal.

I was never given any religious education other than bible stories; nothing on what these stories actually *meant* other than a vague idea that God loves us and Jesus died for us. Some of my mother's congregation thought that she should push me to become a priest and a bishop, purely because I was clever and went to church every week.

Since then I have mostly been something of a fundamentalist agnostic, feeling wary of anybody who claims they *know* what happens after death, or what God is thinking right now. I know my spiritual side has gone missing somewhere, but I don't have an outlet for it at the moment. Something like Quakerism or fluffy Wicca seems attractive, but the big stumbling-block is having to have belief first. I don't think I could just join an attractive-sounding religion because of its sound.

LSD.

...and why did you stay that way?

Because I'm lazy.

lately i've taken to the idea of christianity influenced by post-modernism. brian maclaren's got several good books on this. i think some of the ideas in the "Emergent Community" allow me to remain liberal... remain open... yet still retain a strong connection to christian ideals.

what kept me from fading away from christianity after reading a buttload of philosophy? the grace of God? stubbornness? the peace and joy i felt trying to live as much like jesus as possible? for rhetoric's sake, i wish there was some good logical moment to provide proof, something concrete and persuasive i could say here that could shed some kind of light on why that evades cynicism and doubt, but in my view of things, there's no easy proof. no blue or red pill whatever that was in the matrix that reveals the deal. and that's okay.

i'm come to terms with the idea that i may be wrong and maybe that's okay. if i've spent my life trying my hardest to further love, mercy, peace, justice... even if i fail constantly at it, that's gotta be better than nothing. and i realize you can be for those things and not believe. in that sense, my faith being a sort of useless organ like an appendix to my moral life from their pov... but my place at the anatomy table sees it closer to the center, the gut intuition. perhaps that makes me seem like a mystic primitive who thinks the brain is a useless organ and that all thought and heart is in my tummy.

i dunno. a guy can go on and on about this sort of thing. people much wiser and smarter than i have tried very hard to make a good case and obviously failed.
m.