Sir Edward Heath RIP

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just watching the heath tribute on tv - harold wilson once described heath as "a shiver looking for a spine to run up" which is brutal!

aside from the aforementioned Sir Tufton Beamish, other gd names mentioned in the docu - Madron Seligman and Dame Moira Lympani!

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 27 June 2001 03:44 (twenty-four years ago)

four years pass...

Former conservative Prime Minister, Sir Edward Heath has died today at 89.

Thoughts, refelection etc on his legacy

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Sunday, 17 July 2005 19:06 (twenty years ago)

The last Tory prime-minister.

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 17 July 2005 19:09 (twenty years ago)

My first thought is: will Mrs T go to the funeral?

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Sunday, 17 July 2005 19:10 (twenty years ago)

That's not a fatuous statement. Maggie and then Blair were such breaks with the respective Tory and Labour traditions that Heath and Callaghan have to be seen as the last of an era of prime-ministers.

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 17 July 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

My first thought: wrong one.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 17 July 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

she'll not take long judging by recent footage

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 17 July 2005 19:14 (twenty years ago)

I think in time his period as PM will be viewed as one of the most important in British 20th century history not least for his part in taking us into the EEC. Also for the breakdown in the post war consensus which led to the rise of Mrs T.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Sunday, 17 July 2005 19:16 (twenty years ago)

And for being namechecked by the Beatles and Cheap Trick.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Sunday, 17 July 2005 19:16 (twenty years ago)

I do hope one newspaper uses a "Ahhh, Mr Heath" headline.

Anyway, we all got the Moet on ice for when Thatcher makes it a hat-trick of dying 70s PMs later in the year?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 17 July 2005 21:24 (twenty years ago)

Are there any gay rumours? Because it's unusual for a prime minister to remain unmarried.

― Momus (Momus), Monday, 18 July 2005 01:49 (twenty years ago)

Maggie put 'im off broads for life.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 18 July 2005 02:14 (twenty years ago)

i still recall the delightful if jaw-dropping moment when a very senior and ancient tory peer explained on a TV programme that heath had never gained the full trust of the party because he was, of course, a "cockney"

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 18 July 2005 08:05 (twenty years ago)

I think asexual rather than gay is most likely.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 18 July 2005 08:16 (twenty years ago)

I have a fondness for Ted Heath, as a personality. RIP.

― Cathy (Cathy), Monday, 18 July 2005 08:20 (twenty years ago)

Cut prices at a stroke. Three-day week. Power cuts. Miners' strike. Morning Cloud. Mike Yarwood. Shoulders. Conducting.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 08:21 (twenty years ago)

When I think of him, I think of power cuts, miner's strikes and the 3-day week. I think he wasn't much cop as a pm, but people remember him fondly b/c thatcher was 1,000,000 x worse.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 July 2005 08:24 (twenty years ago)

One of the great what if's is what would have happened had England beaten West Germany in the 1970 world cup.

Wilson would probably have scraped back into power on the back of the feel good factor. Heath would have been ousted with someone like Willie Whitelaw or Keith Joseph becoming Tory leader. Oil crisis almost certainly would still have happened but the confrontation with the miners and general collapse in industrial relations wouldn't have happened, at least not so quickly.

I suspect a withdrawal of troops from Northern Ireland may have happened in that time period, but by 74 positions were too entrenched to allow a withdrawal/negotiation

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:01 (twenty years ago)

Radio 4, this morning:

Andrew Marr: "He was rather a shy man wasn't he?"
Sir Bufton Tufton: "Yes, but you could get close to him if you were a musician or, presumably, a sailor."

Miaowwwwwwww! Get her!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:02 (twenty years ago)

playing the organ on his yacht!!

the powercuts are one of my fondest youthful memories, sitting huddled round a paraffin heater in a spooky large house we'd just moved into, w.flickering candles lighting the way to the kitchen (which had an old-fashioned country range and kept the kitchen and the water warm): mum - w.her swallows and amazons hat* on - loved times like this, so we all had great fun

*(=metaphor: she hated hats) (and space)

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:05 (twenty years ago)

Heath was my local MP when I was growing up = totally no point to casting a vote in Bexley & Sidcup

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:08 (twenty years ago)

How many elections did he lose to Labour, three? Ergo, one of my favourite Tory leaders.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:10 (twenty years ago)

Just the two, both in '74. Although in the October '74 one, Labour got back in by a majority of three.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:11 (twenty years ago)

Hold on tho, didn't Wilson beat him in '66 (Douglas-Home in '64)?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:12 (twenty years ago)

I should know, I've just read a 900-page biog of wee Harold!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:13 (twenty years ago)

oh and re: gay rumours didn't Thatcher once say something like "when I look in Ted's eyes I see a woman" or some such lightly dressed innuendo

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:13 (twenty years ago)

I remember as an 8 year old in 73' being allowed to stay up late to watch King Kong and as Kong rampages through New York he smashes a power line and as if by magic our power went out. Never saw the end until many years later.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:16 (twenty years ago)

The first British PM from a genuinely working-class background, the most European and least Atlantacist.

Bringing the UK into the (then) EEC is an admirable legacy but one tarnished by a sense the British weren’t told the entire truth about the project, ie it was, + is, as much a political as an economic community, setting the foundations for the UK’s future troubled and ambivalent attitudes to ‘Europe’.

His govt’s response to Bloody Sunday was a national disgrace, and a poisonous legacy.

I’m just old enough to recall the 3 day week and power cuts, in retrospect Heath seems caught up in impossibly difficult web of industrial militancy and decline. Take the Upper Clydes shipbuilders. Understandably reluctant to keep pouring in vast public subsides to keep a loss-making concern going the Heath government’s attempts at closing it were met with a superbly organised ‘work-in’ by workers ably lead by Jimmy Reid. It becomes a celebrated cause, John Lennon, Eric Clapton, Billy Connolly all offer support, and the public backs the workers. Heaths personal attempts at diplomacy end in total failure. Heath performs a U-turn pouring in even bigger subsidies, money that would have been much better spent on retraining and redevelopment. Thatcher just decimated the industry, making Heath look either (depending on your view) weak and spineless, or a Tory with a conscience, + preferable to what followed.

The way his party vilified him as a symbol of failure during the Thatcher years was distasteful and opportunistic. Allowing Sunderland to win the FA Cup, a capital offence.

― stevo (stevo), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:22 (twenty years ago)

Let us also not forget the Pentonville Eight, one of whom was Ricky Tomlinson.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:24 (twenty years ago)

I read somewhere that he had a surgery session once a month, where he saw 4 people. Most MPs see more people in a month that he did. I recall being not too suprised though, as I'd have thought he'd have hated that aspect of the job.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:26 (twenty years ago)

The name "Claycross" flashed across my brainbox right now.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:27 (twenty years ago)

Just ten years ago we still had Wilson, Heath, Douglas-Home and Callaghan.

I don't like Thatcher being the oldest living ex-PM.

RIP.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:29 (twenty years ago)

pentonville eight? ricky T is one of the shrewsbury two!! this is non-negotiable

(surprise to no one: i have a mum&mark s tale abt the shrewsbury two also - at that time i went to school on the far side of town and she always took me in by car --- this day there were all sorts of strange hold-ups so we took a long windy back-street diversion. and suddenly found ourselves travelling alone, queen-mum-limousine-style, down a wide car-less street, with large numbers of policemen and angry trade unionists lining the pavements --- turns out it wz the first day of the shrewsbury two trial, in the court at the shire hall, and here we were gliding past like secret VIPs)

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:32 (twenty years ago)

Pentonville 8 Shrewsbury 2
Guildford 4 Birmingham 6

... football was a lot more exciting in the 70s

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:33 (twenty years ago)

i miss the past :(

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:34 (twenty years ago)

Yes you're quite correct. There were a lot of these post-Industrial Relations Act shindigs.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:35 (twenty years ago)

I liked Tony Benn's comment about Heath being, "Considerably to the left of Tony Blair of course"

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:36 (twenty years ago)

Has any newspaper had the nerve to use the following headline:

The Death (anag.) (3,5)

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:37 (twenty years ago)

Wait - Sir Bufton Tufton was on Radio 4???

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:38 (twenty years ago)

"Grocer Ted, Grocer Ted
Is it true what Mummy said
You won't come back
Oh no-o no-o no"

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:40 (twenty years ago)

Had teeth? (anag xpost)

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:40 (twenty years ago)

Yes, Heath lost* three elections to Labour: he was the new leader when Wilson reinforced his majority in '66.

(Though Feb '74 was barely a defeat - 297 seats to Labour's 301, and 37.9% of the vote to Labour's 37.2%; Ulster Unionists wouldn't take the Tory whip, Thorpe wouldn't deal with Heath, in came 'arold.)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:43 (twenty years ago)

Harold retired to play football in the garden with Paddy while Heath went about trying and failing to drum up support for some sort of minority Conservative government. The Queen was apparently delighted to see Harold's cheeky munchkin features at her next PM's briefing instead of Heath The Weirdo.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:47 (twenty years ago)

... and, of course, she famously could bear the sight and sound of The Thatcher

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:48 (twenty years ago)

even if in '87 the queen was rumoured to have whispered: "that poor mr kinnock"...

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:50 (twenty years ago)

indeed i'd forgotten about '66 - had it in my head that dame douglas-home was still in charge, though of course he was elbowed out after the '64 defeat.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:51 (twenty years ago)

Of course that should read:

... and, of course, she famously COULDN'T bear the sight and sound of The Thatcher

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:51 (twenty years ago)

Ed the Hat?

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:54 (twenty years ago)

The Hated?

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:54 (twenty years ago)

of course the big scottish political event of the '60s was winnie ewing being chaired aloft, having just taken hamilton for the snp. it was '68 so it must have been the lisbon lions effect.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:54 (twenty years ago)

I don't imagine too many people who voted for Winnie Ewing being Celtic fans

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 18 July 2005 09:56 (twenty years ago)

Are there any other Prime Ministers - from any country - who have competed in international sport whilst in office?

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Monday, 18 July 2005 10:25 (twenty years ago)

Francois Mitterand played left-back for France when they won the European Championships in 1984, but technically he was President rather than Prime Minister. Michael Heseltine (never actually Prime Minister, and at that time out of the cabinet post-Westland fiasco) narrowly missed out on representing Britain in the winter Olympics of 1988 when he was beaten by Eddie 'The Eagle' Edwards in the qualifiers for the ski jump.

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Monday, 18 July 2005 10:36 (twenty years ago)

I'm not entirely sure I believe you ;-)

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Monday, 18 July 2005 10:38 (twenty years ago)

he forgot that he had to wear the skis, not brandish them at the speaker.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 10:39 (twenty years ago)

and, as alan clark mentions in his diaries, heseltine "bought his own skis." the scandal!

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 10:39 (twenty years ago)

Gil's Scott Heron's dad was Konrad Adenauer

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 18 July 2005 10:41 (twenty years ago)

you sure you not mixing up konrad adenauer with jinky johnstone?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 10:43 (twenty years ago)

Konrad "Nobby" Adenauer

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 18 July 2005 10:45 (twenty years ago)

i think you'll find he was the orig lead singer with the bay city rollers (his fanclub was called the "nob-ettes")

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 10:51 (twenty years ago)

Princess Anne was the minister for pensions when she competed in the British equestrian team at the Montreal '76 Olympics, but for constitutional reasons it had to be kept hush-hush.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 18 July 2005 10:52 (twenty years ago)

as did her birthday party from the same year, where she was given the bumps by the rubettes.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 10:53 (twenty years ago)

PMs live a long time these days. Douglas-Home, Callaghan and Macmillan all made it to 92, Heath was 89, Thatcher's almost 80 already. Even 79 for Wilson isn't too bad.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:06 (twenty years ago)

who actually was the last PM not to achieve their four score years and ten?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:08 (twenty years ago)

Attlee I'd guess, he died relatively young.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:10 (twenty years ago)

Eden?

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:11 (twenty years ago)

attlee was 84, eden 79.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:12 (twenty years ago)

Bonar Law I think, assuming you mean three score and ten.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:14 (twenty years ago)

Chamberlain 71.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:15 (twenty years ago)

According to Wikipedia and my dodgy maths, the last PM not to reach 70 was Andrew Bonar Law, 1858-1923

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:15 (twenty years ago)

I was wrong about Attlee, quick look through wikipedia suggests you ghave to go back to Bonar Law to find a p.m who died before his 70th birthday.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:15 (twenty years ago)

Heath wasn't a cockney, was he? There was indeed speculation about his sexuality. He has a lady friend he was close to and allegedly nearly married but most people suspected he was doing a Cliff Richard.

Presumably the most musically talented PMs ever, though.

He was legendarily thin-skinned. In the early 90s Classic CD magazine reviewed some cds of orchestral music he had conducted. The magazine used a star system for rating discs, but also used much smaller asterisks to denote footnotes. It gave Heath's recordings respectable ratings, 4 stars or similar. But Heath, mistaking asterisks for one and two-star reviews wrote a furious diatribe to the magazine citing other reviews and opinions of his work to "prove" that the reviewer had been malicious. The mag published his letter in full the following month, the editor gently pointing out that Heath has completely got the wrong end of the stick. As far as I know Heath never apologised for his mistake.

― frankiemachine, Monday, 18 July 2005 11:15 (twenty years ago)

if still alive bonar law would only be 147!!

(for some reason this strikes me as surprising)

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:17 (twenty years ago)

a maximum break!

(cue ancient alex higgins record no one remembers except me: "one-four-sev-en/that's my idea of heaven")

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:19 (twenty years ago)

There is an old Abkhazian gentleman who claims to have taken tea with Bonar Law in 1870.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:19 (twenty years ago)

PM's live for a long time because they bathe in the blood of the oppressed and downtrodden, or something like that.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:20 (twenty years ago)

That was Cleopatra.

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:21 (twenty years ago)

Presumably the most musically talented PMs ever, though

I wonder if Blair ever jammed with Heath.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:22 (twenty years ago)

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:23 (twenty years ago)

Thatcher Thatcher, Ass's Milk Snatcher.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:23 (twenty years ago)

yes

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 11:25 (twenty years ago)

I only know a little more than fuck-all about UK politics, but was a bit shocked the obit was only the 3rd or 4th story on the BBC World news. A lightweight ex-prez like Gerald Ford will get the lead when he dies.

Some Tory geezer explained Heath's recent seeming 'moderation' as "Well, Tony Blair is Thatcher continued." THANK YOU. If only more American 'liberals' had been as smart about Clinton.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 18 July 2005 12:41 (twenty years ago)

well you know. bombs and things.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 July 2005 12:43 (twenty years ago)

Thatch (quoted as saying, re: 70-74 govt): "We had changed course but still had the same man at the helm...blah blah...into uncharted waters...running aground on the rocks of whatever..." (it was flowery and metaphorical, yeah?)
Heath: "Someone must've written that for her; she couldn't have written it herself."

Hurd (quoted as writing in his diary in '73): "The government are stumbling around the battlefield looking for someone to surrender to."
Heath: "That's just very silly. Even the language is silly. Silly."

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 18 July 2005 20:46 (twenty years ago)

clip from an interview with Heath I saw on TV this morning. Interviewer is asking him about his reaction to Thatch resigning:

"Is it true you called your office and said Rejoice, Rejoice?"

Heath: "I said it three times I think. Rejoice, Rejoice, Rejoice".

― MarkH (MarkH), Monday, 18 July 2005 21:24 (twenty years ago)

The first British PM from a genuinely working-class background

... was Ramsay (*spit*) Macdonald surely?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 09:42 (twenty years ago)

fair's fair, heath did give enoch the push after That Speech in '68.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 19 July 2005 09:51 (twenty years ago)

And it's abundantly clear that he wouldn't have made the play for the NF vote that Thatcher did before 1979.

It seems he could not, or would not, implement the full Selsdon Park agenda, either - it must be remembered that the Tories entered the 1970 election further to the right than they had been since the war, with a multitude of plans (anti-trade union legislation, crackdown on law and order and permissiveness) which had to be watered down or abandoned. It's right that 'Bloody Sunday' is mentioned; the most appalling incident in the pre-moderation Heath era - which really began in 1973.

― Tom May (Tom May), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)

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