Hide Your Weed Under the US Constitution (NYPD to Search Bags on Subway)

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New York Times:
In New Security Move, New York Police to Search Commuters' Bags

By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS
and SEWELL CHAN
Published: July 21, 2005
New York City will begin tomorrow morning randomly checking bags at subway stations, commuter railways and on buses, officials announced today in the wake of the terrorist bombings in London.

Transit Union Hires a Security Trainer This is the first time the city has undertaken such a security effort of this scale on the commuter transportation system.

"We will be instituting random searches of bags and packages as people enter the transit system," Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly, adding that the city is consulting with its attorneys to formulate a plan. "We're going to do it in a reasonable, common-sense way."

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and Mr. Kelly said that the focus of the searches will be the subway system, but that the Police Department would reserve the right to check passengers' bags on buses and ferries as well. Officials said they would take pains to avoid racial and ethnic profiling.

"We live in a world where sadly these types of security measures are necessary," Mr. Bloomberg said.

The announcement raised concerns from some quarters about protecting New Yorkers' constitutional right to privacy.

"The police can and should be aggressively investigating anyone they suspect is trying to bring explosives into the subway," said Christopher Dunn, associate legal director at the New York Civil Liberties Union. "However, random police searches of people without any suspicion of wrongdoing are contrary to our most basic constitutional values. This is a very troubling announcement."

The threat level for the city has been orange, the second highest. since the terrorist attacks at the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, but police officers have not previously searched the bags of mass transit passengers before - even after a firebombing on a subway station in Lower Manhattan in 1994, a deadly sarin gas attack in the Tokyo subway in 1995 and a foiled plot to bomb the subway in Brooklyn in 1997.

Bags are occasionally checked during large events, like the annual New Year's Eve celebration at Times Square. Bags have also been regularly checked since the World Trade Center attacks at museums and professional sports events.

Officials at the Metropolitan Transportation Authority said internal discussions about random checks had been going on for several weeks - before the bombings of subway trains and buses in London on July 7 and again today. No one is believed to have been killed in today's attacks in London, but the first series of bombings in that city killed 56 people and wounded 700 others.

"It was something that had been discussed for several weeks," M.T.A. spokesman Tom Kelly said in a telephone interview.

Police spokesman Paul Browne said that during a meeting at Police Headquarters this morning, police officials decided to start the random checks, which police officials have discussed periodically for the past three years.

"In light of what appeared to be the continuing nature of the attacks in London, the decision was made to move to this next step," Mr. Browne said.

M.T.A. officers will also carry out checks on commuter rail lines, including the Long Island Railway and Metro North.

Mr. Kelly acknowledged that the random searches were without precedent, but added that he hoped riders would not consider the actions an inconvenience.

"We're going to alert our passengers on the subways as well as the commuter rail lines that their packages are subject to inspection," he said. "It's a safety issue. People don't consider any measures that you take for safety to be an inconvenience. This is New York City."

Kareen Fahim, Shadi Rahimi and Jim Rutenberg contributed reporting for this article.

Boring Satanic Space Jazz (sexyDancer), Thursday, 21 July 2005 18:45 (twenty years ago)

How about that bike culture, huh?

Boring Satanic Space Jazz (sexyDancer), Thursday, 21 July 2005 18:47 (twenty years ago)

"We're going to do it in a reasonable, common-sense way."

Meaning we're going to search wheelchairs and white old men, just so it doesn't look like we're racially profiling people.

Jimmy Mod Is Sick of Being The Best At Everything (ModJ), Thursday, 21 July 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

sexy, you better start biking to work.

cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 21 July 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

i think more people will be upset that their commute is being held up than by the actual search of their bags.

cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 21 July 2005 18:56 (twenty years ago)

You really think they're looking for your dimebag?

mcd (mcd), Thursday, 21 July 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

dimebag? dollarbag, streets!
(Actually think a subway bombing is looming large in the next year)

Boring Satanic Space Jazz (sexyDancer), Thursday, 21 July 2005 19:04 (twenty years ago)

You really think that they'd look away from drugs?

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 21 July 2005 19:05 (twenty years ago)

This is insane- I can not believe that this is going to happen. Someone please tell me the ACLU is going to challenge this, it just seems SO wrong. I take the NJ Transit midtown direct trains from Morristown in Penn Station all the time when I'm home, and I'm having visions of having this turn into the lines that you have to go through to get on an airplane. What's going to come out of this in a few years, I'll have to take my shoes off to get into Penn Station and get home? It's already a madhouse in there during rush hour, I can only imagine the chaos that this could cause if they really started searching a lot of bags.

I hope that Bruce Schneier (http://www.schneier.com/blog/) does a piece on how this is crazy security theater in a few days.

lyra (lyra), Friday, 22 July 2005 01:44 (twenty years ago)

Meaning we're going to search wheelchairs and white old men, just so it doesn't look like we're racially profiling people.

is it time to accept racial profiling?

vahid (vahid), Friday, 22 July 2005 01:49 (twenty years ago)

There's always a time to accept racial profiling

Jimmy Mod Is Sick of Being The Best At Everything (ModJ), Friday, 22 July 2005 01:50 (twenty years ago)

black guys pulled over in suburban neighborhoods = not cool with that.

shadi rahimi (but not jim rutenberg) has his bag searched = i'm cool with that.

vahid (vahid), Friday, 22 July 2005 02:15 (twenty years ago)

I'm not even so sure that this is unreasonable search and seizure so much as I fear the logistical nightmare it will probably create.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 22 July 2005 02:57 (twenty years ago)

Once back when after the Madrid thingee where ppl got died, I grabbed an unclaimed black plastic grocery bag fulla who knows what out from under a seat on the L and tried to tell a conductor about it, and he said a bunch of shit to me that

1. made no sense, in english

2. illustrated to me that nobody actually cared, least of all the folks who presumably have a few milligrams of clout in such a situation

I mean we are discussing weighty items, some visible (looked like blackberries?) and some not (folded under brown paper) and this dude is like "shibba losn fund, babooba shibba train runnin fabba looba losn fund, take off" and then I throw it in the garo BAAAAJE. After resuming my L train passengership I am greeted with a number of stares from my fellow humans that counterindicate my feelings of sanity- since then I have been hesitant to a fault, on all mass transit, including the Metro I take every day for work and school, to actively attempt to resolve a suspicious bag situation.

Despite the fact that I have been trained by the intelligence community of the USA to, you know, be keen on that shit, and I kind of can't help it.

And I wasn't there to save Liz, or anybody else, because I live in the worng city.

And it hurts, because I know what I should do, but I'd look like an asshole and a fucking psycho if I did it.

TOMBOT, Friday, 22 July 2005 03:07 (twenty years ago)

Although I actually wouldn't be surprised if they use this as a tactic to search for drugs as well. I seem to remember hearing Ashcroft actually bragging about how many non-terrorism related arrests the Patriot Act led to.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 22 July 2005 03:20 (twenty years ago)

is it time to accept racial profiling?
No. Should we stop all white adult men on the street and fingerprint them, because most serial killers have been white males? Even if all four bombers who attacked London were Pakistani, that's what small percentage of Pakistani men? I have 2 very good friends who were born in Pakistan, and they are no less terrorists than any of my other friends.

Instead of blanket profiling, if the NYPD absolutely needs to do this (which I very strongly disagree in), they should use some of the techniques that are supposedly used by Israeli airport security, ie looking for people who seem way to nervous, are over dressed, or whatever. That's at least halfway smart profiling. Racial profiling is never going to work and I hope that this country never accepts it.

lyra (lyra), Friday, 22 July 2005 03:27 (twenty years ago)

I have 2 very good friends who were born in Pakistan, and they are no less terrorists than any of my other friends.

I know what you meant, but this is a great slip.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 22 July 2005 03:29 (twenty years ago)

yeah like the israelis don't use racial profiling!!!

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 22 July 2005 03:29 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, WE ARE ALL TERRORISTS IN BELLTOWN. Haha. I'm sorry, I'm home sick with a cold and the decongestant is doing my typing for me.

lyra (lyra), Friday, 22 July 2005 03:33 (twenty years ago)

spost Ha. They sure use it in reverse, at least. In the airport (I was flying alone) I was questioned at length by a big security dude. Finally, he asked me if I learned hebrew in hebrew school, and if I knew about Jewish holidays. Once I knew these answeres, I was let go.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 22 July 2005 03:34 (twenty years ago)

You know what we ought to do? We ought to search each other's bags. Every morning on the way to work, just pick out your neighbor, say hey, can I look in your bag? And then nobody would even bring a bomb, because that would be life. Looking in each others' bags, knowing just a little bit about each others' business, just to have that little bit of knowledge that might save somebody's life, even if it wasn't yours.

I'll tell people on my train car tomorrow morning if you do it tomorrow morning.

I'll tell them all that I'm scared and I want to know what's going on.
I'm gonna do it. You dare me. Be a good fucking neighbor, that's what we all should've been doing from the start.

TOMBOT, Friday, 22 July 2005 03:37 (twenty years ago)

we ought to get pamphlets done up like the fucking Falun Gong and the Understanding Islam crowd. Pass'em around and whatnot. Hell, I only ride two lines on the DC metro; there's work to be done.

Listen, you fucks, i stuck around this messageboard for three years because I liked so many of you, show up, search your fucking neighbor this morning, because hey, they're your fucking neighbor.

TOMBOT, Friday, 22 July 2005 03:41 (twenty years ago)

And no more goddamned L1z D4plyns. No more. Fuck that. Fuck that shit.

TOMBOT, Friday, 22 July 2005 03:43 (twenty years ago)

tombot OTM.

cutty (mcutt), Friday, 22 July 2005 04:45 (twenty years ago)

No. Should we stop all white adult men on the street and fingerprint them, because most serial killers have been white males? Even if all four bombers who attacked London were Pakistani, that's what small percentage of Pakistani men? I have 2 very good friends who were born in Pakistan, and they are no less terrorists than any of my other friends.

http://capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3639

One of the better articles I've read on the economics of racial profiling.

Cunga (Cunga), Friday, 22 July 2005 05:16 (twenty years ago)

Two years ago during one of the big "Orange Alert" paranoid spells -- probably around the invasion of Iraq, right around when they put up all the "If you see something, say something" signs -- I was walking through the Grand Central subway station and I saw a big-ass mondo black suitcase propped all by its lonesome up against one of those metal pillars there. I noticed it because even though the place was packed (it was right around 5 p.m.) there was nobody close to it. I slowed down, circled back, kind of hung around for 2 or 3 minutes to see if anyone was going to show up to take it. Nobody did. And this thing was huge, like 4 feet high, looked packed full. So I'm there increasingly convinced this thing is about to go kablooey, starting to get a little freaked out, and looking anywhere for an MTA employee, and there was no one in sight. I half-sprinted partway up the tunnel toward the shuttle, and found a guy with an MTA vest on sweeping up garbage. I told him there was a suitcase. He kind of shrugged and said, "There's a police officer down there. Tell him." I asked where exactly the officer was. He just kind of gestured and went back to sweeping. I went back, still no cop in sight, and the suitcase was still sitting there all by itself. At this point I was almost ready to just get the hell out of there, because why should I be one of the people killed? But then I saw another guy in an MTA vest, still not a security guy, but some kinda tech guy or something. I grabbed him and dragged him to the suitcase and told him it'd been there by itself for at least 10 minutes. When he saw his eyes got a little wide, which was at least a little vindication. He got right on his walkie-talkie. Then I got the hell out of there.

But I mean, this thing was the size of furniture. We're not gonna stop anyone with a fucking backpack, I don't care how many Barney's bags we search.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 22 July 2005 06:15 (twenty years ago)

It seems shocking that suspect packages don't seem to be taken as seriously stateside. Well before 9/11 suspect packages were closing railway and Underground stations, you can't be in a major station for 5 minutes without hearing an announcement warning that if you leave your luggage unattended it will 'be taken away and may be destroyed'. Probably part of the reason why the London bombs were carried by bombers whilst the Madrid bombs were detonated remotely.

Ed (dali), Friday, 22 July 2005 06:25 (twenty years ago)

Can cutty or Ed or somebody repost what I said plz, I want to make this a meme, and frankly not for my own sake, just to get this out. It's something that our little high-density-living adaptations seem to have failed to address

TOMBOT, Friday, 22 July 2005 06:59 (twenty years ago)

wasn't one of the London bombers Jamaican?

shookout (shookout), Friday, 22 July 2005 12:22 (twenty years ago)

so did anyone get searched this morning? i'm curious as to how thorough they are. like if i have a sealed package in my bag that came through USPS, roughly the size of a box of kleenex, are they going to want to cut it open?

hypothetically speaking, of course.

W i l l (common_person), Friday, 22 July 2005 12:36 (twenty years ago)

The Citizen's Guide to Refusing New York Subway Searches

W i l l (common_person), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 16:08 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I'm glad there have been explicit police statements that refusing a search doesn't constitute probably cause for, you know, a search, the way it appears to in other circumstances. They're basically trying to draw a clear line around these searches as terrorism-only: if you walk on with some weed in your bag, just chuckle and decline the search and go do something else instead. (Chuckle = "oops Mr. Policeman I'm so not a terrorist but I've totally got a dimebag in here.")

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 16:34 (twenty years ago)

ianal, but i think that refusing to consent is never grounds for probable cause for a search in a public place unless there are special circumstances, like the preznit is around or somesuch.

W i l l (common_person), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

I couldn't speak to the legal standards, but I have personally had the conversation that goes "would you mind if I looked in your pockets?" / "yes, I would mind, I would prefer that you didn't" / "well I'm going to need to look, then."

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 16:49 (twenty years ago)

three weeks pass...
So I was on my way back from seeing Grizzly Mang and I walk up to the W4th St. stop to take the F home and I am stopped by a Hot Officer Lady down there at the south enterance and she asks if she can search my bag. And I say very nicely, 'No I'll decline, thank you, I'll leave. Have a nice day.' and I go up and out and walk two blocks up to the northwest enterance and down into the subway. THERE WERE NO COPS AT THE NORTHWEST STATION ENTERANCE.

The Original Jimmy Mod: Kind Warrior (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 22:12 (twenty years ago)

So what this means is, were I a terr0rist, I would be very clever.

The Original Jimmy Mod: Kind Warrior (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 22:14 (twenty years ago)

Yes, or you could just get on the subway in Brooklyn at a semi-off hour.

I'm Hi, Jared Fogle (ex machina), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 22:16 (twenty years ago)

Right, but then I would be leaving home and not going home.

The Original Jimmy Mod: Kind Warrior (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 22:25 (twenty years ago)

so, what happened next, nabisco?

W i l l (common_person), Thursday, 18 August 2005 02:16 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I saw this for the first time at W. 4th today as well.

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Thursday, 18 August 2005 04:19 (twenty years ago)

Just for the record, I did get searched last week. It was because I was carrying a huge roll of canvas wrapped in brown paper, and they wanted to make sure it was not a bomb of any sort. They also looked in my shoulder bag, but not into each individual pocket (like the one where the weed was.)

I do not really look like a terrorist.
But I am still more frightened than ever while riding NY transit.

Ian John50n (orion), Thursday, 18 August 2005 12:18 (twenty years ago)


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