gay catholics- whats the appeal?

The Church has sponsered Aesthics throughout its history. Part of Protestant Reform was a definte iconoclasm . All this said there has been an extensive history of censorship in our club as well. Maybe thats it, the way to choose paths. Find a path, Francis or Auginstine, Ratzinger or Romero. The other thing is that its so pagan, the saints, the rites, the rituals . Its alot like drag.

Suzy:That is exactly who i was thinking of, have you met him ?

Catholic gay thing: irresistible sex/guilt combo I'd imagine. Also men dressing up in skirts and getting off on repressing their urges or sublimating them elsewhere. Paint the ceiling, indeed!

I think in the Catholic sense, the gay thing makes sense, because where else are you going to find hundreds of single men who are in love with Jesus, but honestly! Episcopalians are nominally protestant, and they're allowed to get married.

gay coworker wants to gave me tickets to see the pope.

Yesterday, St. Patrick's Cathedral hosted the funeral of Cecilia Gentili, a transgender, atheist prostitute. Funeral was attended by hundreds of trans activists in thongs/fishnet/halter tops/fur. They celebrated the dead prostitute by mocking St. Cecilia, saying: "This whore.… pic.twitter.com/qMeUA0rfhK

— Mary Margaret Olohan (@MaryMargOlohan) February 16, 2024

Mary Margaret is not amused.

I was there yesterday and sadly I didn’t see this but I approve, mad crass how literally every pew has Apple Pay signs on it and there’s a little set up where you can donate fixed amounts of $10, $25 and $50.

5:07

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt8Dxpb3b6E

ts: women angry about the patriarchal organization they tradwife for

idk when i was growing up catholic the line i always got was that jesus "associated with prostitutes and tax collectors". honestly i didn't know who the classical st. cecilia was and it looks like she was one of those "virgins" the catholic church likes to canonize - only ever women, though, only women get canonized for being "virgins"

so it seems weird that anyone would calling st. cecelia a "mother of whores". like i'm sure there are patrons saints of sex workers but st. cecelia wouldn't seem to be one of them. unless they're talking about another st. cecelia. there are lots of saints, too many for me to keep track of.

in a weird way i feel like the catholic church, like other patriarchal organizations, has almost supported trans women, by promoting such a toxic, restrictive version of patriarchy that there's no possible way for us queers to conform to it

idk when i hear other people i know talk about their backgrounds they're always weird fucked up things. i was just talking with a friend this morning who went to a fucking jesuit primary school. the jesuits, god, they'll say the most fucked up shit and make it sound like it makes sense. "oh actually indulgences are a good thing", shiiiiiit. anyway when you can't conform to that shit anymore, catholicism or mormonism or some weird cult where you spend your whole life in some other country trying to convert people, idk. like to transition you have to throw everything away, and catholicism, i mean, it's easy to throw away. the chief product of catholicism is child abuse. its second biggest product is ex-catholics.

but it's like, like i was talking to my friend, the most fucked up thing about catholics is that they're _half-right_, they're right but for the wrong fucking reasons, they can be like fucking accidental allies. they're all skeptical of capitalism and you think "wow that's really woke and lit catholicism" and then it turns out it's because they're still really attached to the "three estates" model of social order, like, "hey you know what was cool, we used to be the _first_ estate, why can't we do that again, instead it's these... these third estate plebeians who are acting like they're all such big shots just because they have _filthy lucre_". the same way, catholics will insist that they're "anti-gay", but it's because they don't acknowledge that homosexuality is a thing that exists. they're still like "there are no gay _people_, just gay _sex_, and yeah obviously gay sex is a sin against god". like literally i think a lot of them don't see a fundamental moral difference between homosexuality and pederasty. that's genuinely the impression i get with these fuckers.

so ok yeah i kinda went on a rant but the catholic church is bad and i am not a fan, no matter how many masses they have for dead trans women. you'll never see me showing up in thongs/fishnets/halter tops/fur (also "fur" wtf, i mean some of us are furries but that's different. kind of weird to lump "fur" in there with "halter tops"? i mean i seen plenty of women wearing fur to church, it's called high church, it's kind of a thing?), if i'm gonna celebrate people's lives i'll do it with my people, not in some sick, twisted hotbed of sin and hypocrisy like a _church_.

maybe they were talking about the subject of the simon and garfunkel song "cecilia", who does in fact seem to be fairly sexually promiscuous. i'm not sure.

it seemed clear to me that because the funeral was for a prostitute with the name cecelia the eulogizers were referring to her as 'st cecelia' and 'mother of whores' as a form of praising the person they were eulogizing.

btw st. cecelia is the patron saint of music. otoh, mary margaret olohan is the patron saint of unearned righteousness

mad crass how literally every pew has Apple Pay signs on it and there’s a little set up where you can donate fixed amounts of $10, $25 and $50.

Is that for support of the survivors of sexual abuse by priests?

they'll tell you it is. they won't tell you it's because the courts ordered them to pay large amounts of money to the survivors of sexual abuse by priests, and giving the church money will help _defray those expenses_.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/28/christian-brothers-ireland-child-abuse

my late catholic gay uncle (RIP Jimmy) was so fucked up by his childhood experiences in Artane. I'm just quoting him from this 2009 Graun piece he was in because I miss him:

Beresford argues that the (Christian) Brothers' brutality is rooted in the teachings of Rice, its founder, who modelled himself on Ignatius and was "heavily into self-mortification". Self-flagellation was then routine in the Catholic church. "Pain and suffering was good for the soul. If suffering is good, it's a short step to saying, 'why not inflict it?'" Brothers joined the order as teenagers; they were taught to whip themselves as punishment for their sexual urges and discipline their pupils for sexual indiscretions. In an institution that demanded celibacy and yet was riven with "sexualised violence", some Brothers became sexual sadists, argues Beresford. The impact on Ireland has been profound. "The politicians, the businessmen, the priests, all went to Christian Brothers schools and absorbed the diet of violence, religious intolerance and sadomasochism," he says. Beresford wrote in the Irish Times: "To a large extent [the Christian Brothers'] mindset is Ireland's mindset. Their sadomasochism is an unacknowledged part of Irish male identity."

weird that that Stewart Lee clip cuts off the "not someone who worked as a cunt" bit

Brothers joined the order as teenagers; they were taught to whip themselves as punishment for their sexual urges and discipline their pupils for sexual indiscretions. In an institution that demanded celibacy and yet was riven with "sexualised violence", some Brothers became sexual sadists, argues Beresford.

it's all very Old Leather, isn't it?

i don't know. the penance i grew up with - the sacrament of "reconciliation" - it seemed more like a burlesque of the act. no pain, no punishment, no _purging_ of the flesh. i was supposed to confess sins, and i made up some, and the priest said "say three our fathers, five hail marys, and don't do it again". the sin i made up was always "i didn't honor my mother and father". it was easy enough. my mother told me that all the time. i had done something wrong, and i didn't know what, couldn't think of what she wanted me to say, and like anyone does under interrogation, i said anything i could think of. and none of it mattered. there was no forgiveness. no reconciliation. she just pretended it never happened.

that was what i got from catholicism, not discipline and punishment. silence. things that weren't said, weren't acknowledge, things that if any of us spoke them, were denied. it was all about keeping up appearances. we were a normal family. we had all of the stories to prove it. i was able to convince myself, for a while.

pain, for me, in sadomasochism, it's a relative of self-harm, of cutting. it's taking the pain that is inside and letting it out. creating a congruence between the inner and the outer. kink for me was something different. it was a balance between the fear of being seen, of being _outed_, and the pain of being invisble. i prefer the fear. i _desire_ the fear.

i wrote this when i woke up at 4 am:

"I need the cage, need it so I can't scream or cut or fight or run, and it's terrifying, terrifying to need that. So I also need... reassurance. Because if I don't have that I tend to just lie frozen in place and wait for oblivion. But oblivion never comes. I need someone... to be able to keep themselves safe, to protect themselves from all the ways I can hurt them, and still want me. And submission for me isn't me trusting in them but like... "don't believe in yourself, believe in the me who believes in you", you know?"

i don't get reassurance. i get "i don't remember that." "that never happened." to this day i don't get acknowledgement. that's why i don't talk to her. that's why i hate the Church. they WILL NOT ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT THEY HAVE DONE unless you _make_ them, unless there is no other choice. they're still denying that they did anything wrong to the Duplessis Orphans. they're getting away with it, too. in america most people don't know, and i'm told that in quebec most people don't know either. and it's that culture. it's the _secrecy_ that's central to they are. that's what makes all of their other... _sins_... possible. everything is ok as long as you can be _discreet_ about it.

well. i couldn't hardly go out in public wearing a dress and be _discreet_ about it, could i?