One Hates Most In Other People What One Fears Most In Oneself

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This phrase came up in a private conversation recently, and it's stuck with me.

The first part is a survey - just wondering what people hate most in other people, and also what they consider their own worst fault, and wonder if there is correlation.

The second part is a more open question - calling to mind the phrase "there but for the grace of god, go I" - does meeting someone of this condition effect more of pity, or compassion, or rather disgust upon you?

(I know it might be dangerous to ask such a personal question during such an obviously tense time, but I would ask people to be respectful of one another. I always hope that discussion of unpleasant emotions - even bile and bullying - can help us to understand and perhaps overcome them.)

It Is What A Man Does Which Demeans Him, Not What Is Done To Him (kate), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 07:24 (nineteen years ago)

This is a really interesting question and one thats hard to stare in the face, I think. Funny you should bring it up to, being as I was re-reading bits of Jung last night, whereupon they spoke of the shadow side of the self one doesn't like being reminded of, via dreams and such.

I've been thinking over this a lot lately for a cruddy reason: when I was 21 I had an abusive alcoholic partner. "I'll never be like that", said I, "drinking every day, drinking alone, forgetting stuff, slurring, god he's disgusting".

Now, ten years later, I'm acting so much like he did back then its as if I've been forced to "walk a mile in his shoes" to understand. Although, I dont go nuts and shout abuse at anyone when I'm sloshed ;)

But yeah. Theres loads of other things in other people that shit me that I then sagely realise I'm the worst offender of.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 07:30 (nineteen years ago)

To complete my own survey, the thing that I *think* I despise most in other people is often dishonesty, and that, to me, worst form of dishonesty, hypocrisy (which might as well be lying to oneself).

However, what I fear most in myself is rage, anger, poor impulse control.

The irony being that one of my most pronounced character traits is *not* lying, of being utterly honest and forthright, even when it gets me into trouble. (especially when combined with that rage and poor impulse control I mentioned above.) Whatever else I might be, I am not a liar. (Though perhaps I sometimes fear I may be guilty of unintentional hypocrisy.)

Maybe the disparity is not as acute as it seems - in fact, perhaps the two faults might be seen as opposite sides of the same coin, or opposing ends of a spectrum.

As to the second part of the question, I'm more interested in what others have to say.

It Is What A Man Does Which Demeans Him, Not What Is Done To Him (kate), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 07:34 (nineteen years ago)

To answer the second part. I think people on the edge of something fear, hate or envy those wo have fallen of leapt over the edge, I know I do. To take the analogy further, people clinging on to the edge fear that those falling or jumping may drag them down.

I am certainly uneasy around people who have made life choices that I myself feel that I lack the courage to make and i tend to shy away from people who have got themselves into situations I fear. I am tip-toeing around specificalities I'd rather not get into on the board though.

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 07:42 (nineteen years ago)

"Fears" I think is the right word: the characteristics I find unpleasant about other people are indeed the things I don't want to display myself. Almost by definition. But whether that means I do display them is a difficult question. Surely one has to try consciously to be a better-than-ok person. Do I successfully avoid being a git? Does consciously trying to inhibit gittishness somehow allow gittishness to leak out in a Freudian catch-22 ooze?

I don't dislike people because they're too much like me. The things I try to avoid in myself are talking over/interrupting people - I think I sometimes have a tendency to assume I know what point a person is making before they say it. It infuriates me when someone does it to me and I'm an awful lot better at listening now than I was when I realised I was prone to it when I was a teenager. But I am always practising with varying degrees of success. Other things that wind me up about other people are laziness, which I'm definitely prone to, and supporting the Conservative party, which I'm not. I am tolerant of other people's views generally but the particular brand of Conservatism I find very difficult to listen to is "I'm a success so anyone who isn't must be not trying". That's something I've never been able to think and it's the characteristic that provokes disgust. Almost everything else provokes a shrug.

beanz (beanz), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 07:44 (nineteen years ago)

I'm kind of wondering what about the "There but for the grace of god, go I" provokes a reaction of disgust and fear. Perhaps it's my protestant roots showing through, but at best it induces pity in me, or perhaps at worst the smug Calvinist idea of counting my blessings.

If anything, it makes me cautious. I suppose it makes me realise the precariousness of my own situation.

It Is What A Man Does Which Demeans Him, Not What Is Done To Him (kate), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 07:56 (nineteen years ago)

but i don't fear the vegetarianism in me....

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 10:01 (nineteen years ago)

I fear the vegetarianism in you, ken.

spontine (cis), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 10:03 (nineteen years ago)

That phrase is certainly very true of me - a lot of the people I really do dislike, even hate, I dislike at least in part because they remind me of myself. When I've admitted to disliking someone because they remind me of myself, I've been told that I'm nothing like them - which is partly the usual platitudes, I think; partly the fact that people will always notice different things about others; and partly because the characteristics that I hate in myself are ones I've tried very hard to squash in my external behaviour. So I know they're part of me, even if they're not visible, and I might even er despise someone for letting some unappealing characteristic be 'obvious' when I've managed to hide it.

I think it's especially a certain kind of weak resentful dependence (all three together - I don't mind weakness, or dependence, or resentment on their own) that I hate most in other people because I can feel it in myself. I do pity people for it, but then I begin to further dislike them for being pitiable - for using their pitiability, their patheticness, as a survival tactic. Though of course I don't know if they really do use it so, if they do it intentionally, or if I'm just aware that I would were I in their situation.

There's one particular person I know who displays this sort of bitter lame-duck dependence, and I can get savagely angry when forced to spend long periods of time with them. It makes me all the more impatient, I think, and a lot less forgiving, since I've convinced myself that this person is transparent to me (even if I'm just reading my percieved bad trait into them). I think I'm scared that prolonged exposure will bring that trait back out, or make it visible to others.

Usually, though, I like people whose behaviour I feel I can aspire towards, and dislike people who I think are like me.

spontine (cis), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 10:22 (nineteen years ago)

I particularly hate the habits my parents have that I catch myself doing: being short-tempered and taking anger out on other people by talking to them harshly and blaming them for things (my dad), refusing to talk to people whenever possible (also my dad), reorganising the house the way I want it and refusing to listen to anyone else's needs (my mum), having very occasional fits of extreme rage and threatening to just walk away from a situation (also my mum).

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 10:23 (nineteen years ago)

The most vipituous attacks often seem to be expressions of self loathing, as much as disgust with the offending party.

It Is What A Man Does Which Demeans Him, Not What Is Done To Him (kate), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 10:36 (nineteen years ago)

But not always, though. You can't discount how much you can hate something that you don't understand at all.

spontine (cis), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 10:50 (nineteen years ago)

A related question: do you have a tendency to idealise (if that's the word) the people who you consider to embody aspects of yourself that you abhor? This is both do you reduce them to this aspect, and do you hold them fixed in your mind as something that you are better than, and deny them the chance of changing?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 10:50 (nineteen years ago)

If idealise in that sense if a negative ideal, a demonisation, a scapegoat, yes, certainly.

It Is What A Man Does Which Demeans Him, Not What Is Done To Him (kate), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 10:51 (nineteen years ago)

Another thing I've realised is that often advice (and/or more specifically negative criticism) is often a form of unconscious self expression.

(And this realisation will make me pay more careful attention to the advice I give.)

It Is What A Man Does Which Demeans Him, Not What Is Done To Him (kate), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 13:08 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not sure I get you, do you mean that your advice is personal from you, rather than reflecting eternal verities?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 14:05 (nineteen years ago)

pah! i know one thing, advice is never performed only passed on.

Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

No. More that when people offer unsolicited advice and/or criticism, it usually says more about their *own* circumstances than about yours. (Because everyone projects their own experiences onto the described or perceived experiences of others.)

So I'm wondering if I do that. Well, of course I'm sure I do it, totally subconsciously, like everyone else does. So if I wish for insight or solutions to my *own* problems, I should check the advice that I give others.

It Is What A Man Does Which Demeans Him, Not What Is Done To Him (kate), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

(And also it makes me more able to bear and/or ignore the unsolicited "advice"/criticism/attacks/whatever from mentalists.)

It Is What A Man Does Which Demeans Him, Not What Is Done To Him (kate), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 14:11 (nineteen years ago)

Often I'll reach a solution to a problem just by talking to a friend about said problem, whereas sat in my bedroom blubbing to myself about it I can just be going around in circles. Perhaps I have magical friends.

Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 14:23 (nineteen years ago)

(I mean without the friend having to offer me any advice, obv.)

Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 14:24 (nineteen years ago)

(Contrary to what many believe, that's also what shrinks do. Though they may offer a bit more direction than magical friends.)

It Is What A Man Does Which Demeans Him, Not What Is Done To Him (kate), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 14:26 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah I can see that being quite true.

re the initial question though,
I am a troubled jealous type, and when I see this in other people I cringe with terror because not only do I see painfully clear how pathetic I am/have been and all my jealous tantrums in the past, I also feel paranoid that other friends around me will see the connection and remember all the awful things I have done. I know, what a bloody ego eh.

Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

I am tip-toeing around specificalities I'd rather not get into on the board though.

I hate it when people hint but don't post.

Bob Six (bobbysix), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 15:00 (nineteen years ago)

One Hates Most In Other People What One Fears Most In Oneself

I completely agree with this and it was one of the hardest things to take on board about myself.The things I fear in myself are what I react incredibly badly to in other people. So now when I hate someone, it makes me realise what git-like behaviour lurks in my own soul. And then I worry about it.

A natural candidate for expensive psychotherapy, me, I think. But one of the things I hate in other people is excessive introspectiona nd self analysis. There you go, I've just proved my own point. Argh.

Rachel Mc (Badgerkitten), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 19:03 (nineteen years ago)

I can think of two people who do things I don't like. One of them I recently realised that I probably do this too (she never commits herself to an opinion about a film or exhibition or whatever without hearing yours first and nine times out of ten she won't actually ever say her opinion, just discuss yours). The second person other people have told me I resemble, and sometimes I catch myself doing those things (criticising for the sake of criticising, reluctance to admit that you don't know what you're talking about and should just shut up, wanting to be the centre of attention and respect).

These are unpleasant characteristics, I don't think either is what I fear most in myself. I don't know anyone who displays the things I most don't like about myself. Regarding the second question, I probably would feel sorry for someone who did. Certainly I will defend people (who I don't know, on tv or some acquaintance) who others condemn as being that way.

The people who I described above, though, I feel more anger and frustration towards.

isadora (isadora), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 19:34 (nineteen years ago)


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