Fear of Flying - a Support Thread

if you actually read about turbulence and how the plane copes with it you might feel better, esp. when you factor in the stats. it's presumably never been more difficult to hijack a plane or carry a bomb on board successfully either, if you think about it. and though you may be stuck on a plane at least you're always moving forward, miles closer to your destination with each minute.

my problem now is still that despite knowing all this i just can't relax on planes - not even to read properly let slone sleep. i enjoy many aspects of it though, especially landing! but i think this is normal.

Yes, I'd love to overcome the fear, and am open to anything, money and time permitting. Any advice / tales etc?

But my phobia developped very suddenly, in response to a very specific incident. So all the rationality stuff just doesn't work. I have *got* on a plane and flown since, but even just the idea makes me feel sick to my stomach. I just have no impulse whatsoever to ever do it again. It's not something I can be conditioned out of or whatever.

So when I *have* to do it, a tranquiliser is the only sensible option.

yes. focus on this. you're more likely to die in a car accident.

And there comes a point where however remote the danger you do have to say 'fuck it' because life is rub if you're never gonna hop on a jet and see other parts of the world with your own eyes.

I would avoid all drugs except valium which will hopefully be strong enough to send you to sleep for most of the flight.

I just find it difficult to emotionally connect with stats - hence the irrationality of the fear - and the threat of terrorism really doesn't bother me personally.

It's more... the motion of the damn thing. I'm obsessed with every tiny movement, it just makes my head spin wildly: I can barely see, and certainly can't think beyond uncontrollable crying and near-hysteria.

Precisely, which is why I'm doing it (and have done it in the past) despite the fear. My partner reassures me that despite the child-like hysterical screaming, I am actually being brave - most of those with even a passing fear of flying don't ever try and conquer it.

I think part of the fear is actually that of public humiliation (having a panic attack) or whatever rather than the actual risk of life-threatening danger (which really is minute, and theoretically there need never be another plane crash ever again). it is for me anyway.

This is the key isn't it? The idea of "losing" a fear is just an impossible construct. The trick is to turn it around into something you actually enjoy.

I think fear of that actually helps me control the reactions a little!

Keeping it in the family! Thanks Beth, I'll try this. Is it CBT-based?

I think that many of the actual physical sensations of fear and intense enjoyment - adrenaline response and the like - are quite similar on a physiological level. Maybe. I don't know.

My problem is that they got switched from one (enjoyment) to the other (fear). I have no idea how to switch it back.

This actually has been the case for me this year -- an EXTREMELY bad bout of turbulence returning from New York to OC freaked me the fuck out back in March, and I admit it made all the plane travel I did last month fairly uncomfortable.

I think there are many different branches in phobia development, but it's all down to issues of control. Fear of flying in particular - there's surely no more extreme situation we can find ourselves in where we have absolutely no control whatsoever. I can't think of any other comparable experience?

well i think that's natural to hate the motion part, ascending and descending exert awkward forces on the body and everybody feels it. Turbulence is just damn annoying on the gut if it goes on for too long.

Still, I agree w/Stevem -- I'm willing to put up with all of it for the sake of seeing the world.

But that happened earlier than the plane fear. Plane fear is definitely related to that airport incident.

I don't mind the loss of control - if anything, I enjoy riding on a long distance train because you are hermetically sealed in a compartment where someone else worries about everything for you.

Maybe also it's because I associate going on a plane with going to America/going to see my family. Perhaps if I were to take a purely pleasure trip, it might be different. I have no idea. I'm just so not keen on the idea that I haven't experimented. Or perhaps it's my nesting instinct - I moved/travelled so much when I was young that I don't want to do it any more. I want to stay at home, if, indeed, I could figure out what home is.

You know when you're in a car doing 70mph down a motorway, and you stick your hand out the window? The force of the wind on your hand? Imagine that at 550mph - the wind at that speed creates almost a thick, "solid" body around the aircraft, like it's suspended in jelly. There's no way it's going to drop.

But you know you could stop the train at any moment, if you need to. With a plane, there is no choice, no control, no option.

and plane going over huge mountains = greatest views ever!

I hate it when trains stop at the mo because it always suggests to me that something is wrong, tho it's usually a formality (signal precaution, points-switching etc. caused by lateness, nothing more). I'd become fine with this until last month so have had a bit of a relapse, annoyingly.

Also, turbulence is just the plane bouncing on warm air pockets (usually caused by clusters of quite small clouds in generally clear weather, tho obv. you have it caused by cold/warm air collision in storms too) akin to a car on a very bumpy patch of road. But it's impossible for a plane to be tipped either side or pushed down because of this, and any sudden drop in altitude is matched by a bounce back up (tho people don't notice this as much as the drop obv.).

Lightning cannot significantly damage planes either, based on what I've read.

I was booked to fly on a plane from Newark Airport that boarded ten minutes after the first plane hit the WTC on 9/11. Watched the entire thing unfold before my eyes through picture windows with a panoramic view of New York Harbour. Due to various logistical problems, I was trapped in the airport sans any baggage except carryon bag for three days.

You want to talk loss of control, be stranded in an airport in a state of emergency with armed guards patrolling with dogs and machine guns. I start to feel sick if I even *think* about going to an airport, even just to pick someone up. For some time afterwards, I felt panicky if a plane even flew overhead.

So perhaps that's a bit different from fear of flying, but you have to load me with Klonopam before I go anywhere near one of those toothpaste tubes with wings.

Well, this was the time of year too -- strong winds and the like coming down over the Midwest. In contrast my flight from Chicago to LA that ended my July vacation was as smooth as could be.

Anglesey?

I hear CBT is so last whatever. It's all about narrative therapy now. So deconstructionist and pretty!

That sounds great. Is that the generic name?

(Also, I've been on several planes that were hit by lightening. I was even on a plane with a bomb on it, when I was a child. None of that stopped me flying. Perhaps because I was too young to understand what was going on when our plane was grounded due to having a bomb on it.)

The first time I flew was amazing. I'll never forget that. All of a sudden I was in the air. I'd never been there before. It was like coming up on E.

That'll be the special train or coach that goes over/under the Atlantic, yes?

There's a really good thread somewhere on ILE that I can't find, started (I think) by Rumpie Pumpkin, about stupidly cheerful enthusiasm for flying.

Is that a stupid idea?

ATLANTOBUS!

This is the thread I was talking about.

5 bucks cdn funds/mg, you know where to go if GP punks out on you

I think so, definitely.

Is it a 'recognition of your own mortality' thing?

I think there's a huge element of this, and I think ego comes into it too. There's a common thread amongst people who don't mind flying along the lines of "well, there's nothing you can do about it - if your time's up, your time's up" etc, which I've always found fascinating:

(a) There is something you can do about it (don't fly) and (b) just to be so laissez faire about your own death is so odd. Does this just mean that these people are content? That they have no regrets? They've achieved everything and are at peace with themselves? Or are they just nuts?

Nope, sorry. Well, anyway, like I said before - it wasn't in my 20s that it developped, and it was in response to a single incident. So I probably don't count as classic fear of flying anyway.

I don't know, I've started taking silly random panic attacks on all forms of transport over the last few years, even in my own car sometimes. I have jumped off trains, buses, tube trains at stations far removed from where I intend to be, and have refused to get on planes increasingly more. Though funnily enough my flights to and from Spain this week were a doddle, probably because I was knackered on the way going and hungover/still drunk on the way back so didn't have the energy or the wherewithal to panic.

Which makes me think it isn't a recognition of my own mortality - if I thought like that I would never leave the house.

Sure, although I don't think we equate pavement falls or road traffic accidents etc with our own demise as much as we do with the violence of a plane crash, for example. Fear of plane travel = metaphor for most uncontrollable, horrible death we can think of, however irrational and statistically unlikely that may be. Which is why I think certain individuals particularly start to link plane travel with a growing awareness of the shortness of their own lives.

This doesn't sound suitable for just, say, popping a couple before a flight and waking up at the end. It sounds more like something to be taken as part of a programme, as Lupton describes (sorry to hear about your anxeity disorder).

BA fear of flying course (at £225): possibly booked, despite extreme price. If I do it, I'm doing it for this thread.

You'd never make it as a Paul Auster protagonist.

http://www.editpresenca.pt/images/autores/379.jpg

????

Like sponsored therapy? For every panic attack I don't have I get 3 quid?

4 hour panic attacks really make you feel alive, y'know?

I don't have a fear of flying. I do have a fear of heights, and I wish airlines would stop thinking they are doing me a favor by upgrading me to a window seat.

i don't have a fear of flying, but i'm certainly more nervous about it now than i was in, say, college, when i flew just about every week during the semester. i think it has something to do with having more to lose these days (e.g., wife and daughter). or maybe it's just post 09.11 nerves. who knows?

i haven't been on a plane since before 9-11 - i am afraid that i will do something ill-advised in the current security climate.

As to systematic desensitization—I've read that after two hours your nervous system can't keep mounting the fear reaction.

wish this were true

my husband already had some anxiety about flying, related to an accident he was in some years ago, but it has turned into a crippling phobia since our return flight from new zealand back in may: he had experienced a couple of bad-turbulence moments during flights over the last 6 months but nothing major, then one hour into our flight home we encountered insanely bad turbulence (jet streams apparently, and the plane was completely full so the pilot couldn't get the plane above it). i mean, people were throwing up, it was that bad. my husband immediately started having a severe panic attack, for which we had no meds (in retrospect, i wish that i had stood up and begged someone on the plane to give us some drugs - there were people sitting across from us who were out cold the entire flight so they were definitely on something pretty good).

the pilot kept saying we would be out of the turbulence in 5 mins, then 10 mins, then 20 mins... then he finally shut up. the turbulence lasted for about 4 hours i think, and that was non-stop. i wasn't panicky, but i did feel extremely nauseated and i kept trying to look over to my husband but turning my head made me feel like throwing up. even after the turbulence subsided, he was still in panic mode for the entire flight (over 12 hours) bc he was so scared we were going to hit it again.

two things we learned:
1. never, ever travel long-distance without prescription drugs like valium or whatever if you're even slightly sensitive to flying
2. you are so much stronger than you even know.

i watched my husband almost lose his mind, he was so far out in the panic zone, and there was absolutely nothing i could do to bring him back. but when he saw how ill i was some part of him realised he had to pull his shit together and get through it, so he (somewhat instinctively, i think) somehow developed some on-the-spot CBT where he managed to talk himself through the entire flight. i can't even begin to tell you how much mental energy he must have expended doing that, but you'd be surprised at what you can do when you have no other choice. it didn't make him feel 'better' but it kept him from actually losing his shit.

he had to fly again a couple of months later, just 90mins each way, and wasn't expecting it to be a big deal... turns out that nz flight triggered something pretty big and he can't get back on a plane anytime soon. someone mentioned upthread how valium didn't help - same thing for my husband. it relaxed his body but did nothing to help his brain. valium isn't recommended for high-level panic attacks, but rather anxiety-based attacks.

anyways, he's getting some amazing help now, and will probably supplement with meds too, but it's a loooong process and it really sucks to have to go through it.

has anyone tried this? http://www.fearofflying.com/

it's absurdly expensive, so i won't bother. but the guy doesn't seem like a crackpot.

one problem is that i have flight anxiety for myself but also for my loved ones. i worry nearly every minute a loved one is on a plane if i don't consciously distract myself.

also get frightened when i hear a plane passing closely overhead. basically anything aviation related. i've been taking a lot of trains lately.

i'm getting close to being okay about flying... i have been on 12 flights since justine wrote that post, and i haven't had a panic attack on any of them. i still get super nervous before and often during a flight, but it seems like consistent exposure is the only way really to get over it (for me). i was on a rough flight last night from boston to SFO, and i was just so exhausted and tired of feeling nervous about all the turbulence that part of my brain just shut off and let me bounce around without needing to try really hard not to feel anxious... if i can just remember how to put myself in that mindset from now on, i'll be set.

this makes me afraid to use United ever again

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/10/travel/passenger-removed-united-flight-trnd/

https://image.ibb.co/h1tDd5/Screen_Shot_2017_04_10_at_11_58_35_AM.png

https://image.ibb.co/f5XvrQ/Screen_Shot_2017_04_10_at_12_01_28_PM.png

uhhhhhhhhh

There was a good piece on nymag about this and how it's just symptomatic of the US airline industry being fucked up and bullshit for decades

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/04/airlines-are-starving-giants-that-are-gnawing-at-our-economy.html

I remember thinking the last couple of times we had to bail these jokers out that nationalized air passenger service seemed inevitable at some point, like every subway system and most passenger rail systems ever - it's mass public transit, it can't really survive and serve all customers if it's run "like a business"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/04/11/amid-pr-fiasco-over-dragged-passenger-united-ceo-defends-his-crew/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.c9ee704143ba

this is a good example of how not to do PR

i feel awful for that man. good for him for standing up, fuck the fine print. fuck united

there's also this from the fucking CHICAGO POLICE, from the you can't make this shit up department

United pointed to unspecified law enforcement for everything seen in the video, which led Chicago police to issue a statement claiming the injured man “fell.”

the smear campaign against the passenger started today, naturally. of course he had his license suspended in the past so that makes this beating a-ok of course.

the funniest thing about that is the Chicago Police weren't even the officers on the plane, it was the Aviation Police, security guards w/out guns.

xpost

United made a third statement today finally somewhat apologizing. you don't really get three tries at it though.

the latest from another passenger - wonder if this is why United changed its tune:

The man who ended up bloodied and screaming Sunday night had initially agreed to get off the plane, passenger Jayse Anspach said.
"Him and his wife, they volunteered initially," Anspach said. "But once they found out that the next flight wasn't until (Monday) at 2:30 p.m., he said, 'I can't do that. I gotta be at work.' So he sat back down."

The harder the officers tried to get the man to leave, the harder the man insisted he stay.
"He was very emphatic: 'I can't be late. I'm a doctor. I've got to be there tomorrow,' " Anspach recalled.

His pleas didn't work. Moments later, the man was getting dragged down the aisle. At one point, passengers say, the man hits his head on an armrest. Video shows blood starts streaming from his mouth.

https://media.giphy.com/media/xUPGcluxIcZJPaDjwI/giphy.gif

No more peacocks I guess...

New DOT rule paves the way for airlines to ban emotional support animals on flights

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/12/02/service-animal-flying-rule-dot-rules-out-emotional-support-animals/3794004001/