a boring debate re. swear words

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the pinefox said he didn't to get into this in his "catchphrase" thread so here we go. I'm curious - do you think there's anything wrong with swearing (I'm guessing many will say, no)? Why?

Wm. Gass has an interesting argument against swearing in "On Being Blue" but I don't really buy it. Can't be arsed to restate the arg. at the moment though.

Sub-question: if you do swear, how will you change/monitor your behavior if, say, you have kids someday? Or better, if you do already?

Josh, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

no, i don't believe there is anything wrong with swearing per se at all. if used in lieu of argument, then dud, if used as embellishment, cool.

wouldn't use if i had kids. why? because i believe i know when its appropriate to use it. there was no swearing in my house when i grew up. it was a *big deal* if i'd got used to it, would use as second nature, and when not appropriate.

its interesting how swearing has changed. apparently, up till circa 1700s was fine to say fuck, but not god. now other way round. more recently, people now say shit on british tv in the daytime hours. unthinkable even 15 years ago...

gareth, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

i was conditioned against swearing as a child by getting my mouth washed out with soap for saying even seemingly innocuous words like 'darn it'. it seems coarse and unimaginative to me, but i do enjoy it when my co-workers can transform fuck into every part of speech.

keith, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Pinefox aside, whose ears are we protecting? I have been cusses out royally by a sweet- faced 10-year girl when she cannoned into me on her bike, which she was riding on the pavement. We both fell down, and I pointed out — admittedly somewhat heatedly — that cycling on the pavement was illegal and dangerous. "Don't shout at me you fucking pervert!" was her response: "I'm only ten!"

I don't think the various posses of small feral schoolkids who prowl my part of old London town *know* any words I don't, but they sure *use* words I don't.

Rule: use em when it works. Poetically, comedically, tactically. And not when it doesn't.

mark s, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I must say I am prone to periods when my speach is peppered with them. I use them much less now, except when drunk. I work with children every summer, and around them I try not to swear at all, no matter how fould mouthed they are, but its hard sometimes when you've dropped an axe on your foot.

Swearing at other people is a no no really.

Ed, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Second anecdote. It is the summer of love: my family is on holiday in Aberdovey. On the beach y sister Becky, then aged 4, drops her bucket. "Fuck!" pipes high and clear across the sands: my sunbathing parents bury their heads in their towels and frantically pretend she is someone else's.

(I did not swear AT ALL until my late 20s — and my friend P just a week ago was astounded at something I said because, as she insisted, she had NEVER heard me swear, which is just comical and odd... she has known me for nearly 25 years.)

mark s, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

It all fucking depends on the fucking context, doesn't it?

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I am from Minnesota. If you are very bad, when you die you will go to Heck.

suzy, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I swear out of habit more then anything else. Today i got up. hit my head on a post and yelled fuck. The 6 yearould behind me cried. So i should pay attention.

anthony, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I never swore until I was 13. Then a couple of my classmates commented upon this in a derogatory way. So I felt impelled to prove them wrong, and it stuck. I wish I swore a bit less. I'm not at the stage of using bloody as punctuation, but too many unnecessary fucks come out of my mouth. I've tried to cut down but it's quite difficult when you work in a place where everyone has to wrestle with the idiosyncracies of Bill Gates's Win32 API on a day to day basis.

Richard Tunnicliffe, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I'm ambivalent re swearing. I have a six year old son and wouldn't dream of playing Eminem or the eels in his prescence (this proably explains his love of Elvis, Dusty and Beatles, his current fave is the Gorillaz so I have to skip track 5 on the CD).

His grandfather though is a working class Glaswegian who worked in a foundry all his life and uses fuck pretty much as his main adjective, much to my irritation though my lad amazingly hasn't picked up on it.

I think a lot of swearing on current music is cynical and gratuitous, though I can see how in a culture which gives it credibility it proliferates. A lot of it strikes me as being dishonest, because it is some kind of shortcut to being 'street' it gives the music some spurious suthenticity. Though it definitely works in some contexts, especially when it plays with the expectations of a genre e.g eels 'It's a motherfucker' Having said that I'll happily swear in selected company, but (and this may be my yokel upbringing) I still get shocked when I hear women swearing (except during sex of course).

Billy Dods, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Anybody who is offended by swearing should be slapped for being feeble. Swear words are just as valid as any others for expressing feelings. As for swearing around children (if I had any), probably a bad idea as they'll only toddle off and use them at playgroup/school, and you never know what busybody will overhear and get social services involved.

DG, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

They *learn* them at playgroup, fool. Tho my sista learned them from my mother.

mark s, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

You obviously went to a harder playgroup than me, Markus Sinkerius Spasticus. I learned swearing off my dad, whose tirades in traffic jams = classic. There was even someone at my primary school who thought 'old geezer' woz rilly rilly rude! Cue DG in potty-mouthed frenzy.

DG, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Did you guys have the disturbed little kid who would write FUCK on things in YOUR neighbourhood? The best user of profanities I can think of is Peter O'Toole, I love him for it.

suzy, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I'm not *offended* by it , just wish i didn't do it reflexively all the time myself. Me & most of my friends mumble "fucken this" & "fucken that" just as conversational filler like "um" & "y'know" & it kind of makes us seem like morons.

duane, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I was the disturbing kid who wrote fuck everywhere. Except it wasnt fuck it was cunt

anthony, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Some swear and MEAN IT, i.e. swear and convey intense emotion. I swear casually, sort of offhandedly. When I really mean something I tend not to cuss, but instead simply to elevate my voice to huge volume. Except with hippies -- then I cuss and scream.

Sterling Clover, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Yeah, Sterling, what was all that about the hippie clown you were trashing? Did he breathe your air?

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

No one clown, just me driving along, two blocks from my house and screaming at the thousands !!! of hippies who were there for the Phish concert, filling the streets, and more importantly... taking all the good parking spots!

Sterling Clover, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

The only good thing about faux hippies is that they have great pot. I think real hippies from the 60s had a real working communal Anarchism there for a bit.

anthony, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Like any pseudo-posh kid brought up with common kids, I love swearing. It was on most of my school reports, despite being a good student and once a teacher told me off for saying "fart" in a corridor and my response was to say (remorsefully and sincerely) "oh fuck I'm so sorry".

On the other hand Kurt Vonnegut said swearing gives the person you're talking to an excuse not to listen.

chris, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Kurt had a point. Swearing has this connotation of showing that you are grammatically lazy and vocabulary challenged. Does this stop me from doing it? Fuck no. One of the mailing lists that I am on, one of the members has a mail relay that bounces back any message which has swearwords in it. Every single post of mine to that list gets bounced back to me.

I have made concerted efforts to reduce my swearing, but all they seem to do is introduce new words like "Freaking" and "feck" and "codrottle" into my vocabulary. Maybe the more you try to eliminate a word from your vocabulary, the more you are tempted to use it, like the Fawlty Towers "Don't mention the war!!!" sketch. Maybe human beings just have a need to show their frustration, and though the first impulse is to be physically violent (punching the wall) the impulse to be verbally violent is just as gratifying.

Creative swearing is good, though. Even though you're falling back on the same 4-letter Anglo Saxonisms, it still shows that you are stretching your imagination and linguisitic skills to scream something like "Fuck you, fuck your sons and your sons' sons unto the seventh generation of fuckhood, fuck your mother, fuck your father, fuck your congressman's psychiatrist's hairdresser's grandmother's mailman's DOG!!!"

I don't know if I will stop swearing around my kids. I will probably make a concerted effort to curtail some of my vulgar language. I don't know. I would rather curtail my kids' exposure to violence than simple swearing.

masonic boom, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

My father swears like he puncuates. My mother may use the old anglosaxons once a month. I am much more affected when my mother doesit.

anthony, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

At junior school, I was often asked "why don't you swear?"...and I guess the answer was because I didn't need to, nor did I want to. I feel stupid when I swear...I try my best not to, sometimes I lapse. In modern society, swear words are not taboo, is death the last taboo? I've noticed we haven't talked about that here.

james e l, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

The last taboo is Taboo itself. Or Mirage.

Pete, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I never swore at school, although I did make the class gasp when, not realising the strength of the word, I said 'dégeulasse' in French and got told off by the teacher. These days I swear an awful lot more, combination swearing being my speciality. For example, dropping a plate on the floor might elicit the response "fucketyshitarsebuggerybollocks". I'm not really against swearing - I tend to take the attitude that they're only words - but I am aware that people might be offended, so I flick the switch and talk nice whenever children, relatives or colleagues are about.

I love watching TV programmes where they've had to substitute expletives with words that aren't naughty, like 'Naff off' in Porridge. Did you know that in 1936, Music hall comedian Hector Thaxter was the first man to say 'arse' on the radio? I learned that here

Madchen, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Can't remember what the technical term for slipping a swear word inside a non-swear word is - eg. 'un-fucking-believable' - but used judiciously it can be v. funny. And that's the good thing about swearing - can often make you laugh.

Andrew L, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Which reminds me of the recent moment when we discovered what all the irritating Where's Lucky ads were for. Pete, in a fit of outrage, informed us they were for 'pet fucking insurance'. Such as your pet cow falling on you when fucking it, f'rinstance.

Emma, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I'm waiting for the Coronation Street bestiality storyline where Sarah Lou (for it must always be her) accidentally goes on a date with a Kangaroo. She might (or Granada might) want some pet fucking insurance then.

Pete, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Surely anyone who caught syphilis off Gail could get pet fucking insurance as she is a dead ringer for a gerbil.

Any other Correr star / pet looky likeys out there kids?

Emma, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

That is the best thread mutation ever.

That would make Sarah lou a 10 year old mother dating a kangeroo which makes a year of shouting abuse at corrie from the kitchen worthwhile.

Ed, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I want to see a picture of this alleged gerbil woman. I need cheering up.

Dan Perry, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Ge rbil!

Richard Tunnicliffe, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Wow. Get that woman some seeds and alfalfa, quick! I apologize for doubting.

Dan Perry, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Couldn't come up with any more following last nite's viewing of Correr. Although we decided Martin Platt (=ex hubbie of gerbil) looks a bit like someone, I think it was Andy Crane. And that Janice Battersby is quite rodenty too.

Emma, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I wonder if Richard Gere has her number.

anthony, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

my sister has just moved to nyc, and after the first week she rang me and told me she had climbed a building with a new zealander and Richard Gere's mate. wtf?

gareth, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Such things happen in New York Gareth. Oh and dont even think you will pass me in stats.

Mike Hanle y, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

three years pass...
hardly ever but it's not a problem.

cºzen (Cozen), Monday, 23 August 2004 07:01 (twenty years ago) link

"Why are you swearing? I'm not swearing."

-Sexy Beast

weather1ngda1eson (Brian), Monday, 23 August 2004 07:21 (twenty years ago) link

eight years pass...

Everyone in my offices swears, it's getting properly cuntish tbh

i gave ten pounds and all i got was a lousy * (darraghmac), Thursday, 16 May 2013 16:14 (eleven years ago) link

As a school bus driver who drove middle-schoolers to and from school it was my job to enforce a rule against swearing on the bus. Whenever I heard someone swear loudly enough that I could hear it distinctly I would pick up the intercom microphone and my amplified voice would boom out saying:

"I would like to remind everyone on the bus to please keep their language and their subject matter appropriate for the bus. Thank you."

I was happy to repeat this verbatim every 30 seconds, if need be, until the whole bus got tired of the rigmarole and started to swear more quietly. Which was all I really wanted. As far as I was concerned they could swear themselves blue in the face, just not at the top of their lungs and not so reflexively that couldn't control it when necessary.

Aimless, Thursday, 16 May 2013 17:32 (eleven years ago) link

Our daughter now swears as much as I do, and a lot more than my wife ever has. Sometimes it's salty enough to make even me wince.

What makes a man start threads? (WilliamC), Thursday, 16 May 2013 17:41 (eleven years ago) link

Here in Oregon, the native americans called the englishmen (who worked for the Hudson's Bay Company) "goddams", bcz they were saying it constantly.

Aimless, Thursday, 16 May 2013 17:47 (eleven years ago) link


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