If/when you have kids, will you ask them to believe in Santa/ the Easter Bunny/ the Tooth Fairy/ etc?

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I'm not sure I would. Of course, I'm not sure I'll ever have kids, but if I did it would seem like kind of a cruel thing to do. When the inevitable realization comes, it would seem to destroy not only that particular myth but the entire mythmaking imaginary enterprise. Maybe that's overstating it, and maybe I'm underestimating the savviness of kids. Did your parents tell you this stuff with a wink and a nudge, like, "Hey, this is a cool game, let's pretend I didn't put all those presents under the tree but some big fat guy who drives around with flying reindeer did it instead?" Or did they ask you to sincerely believe it?
I'd be particularly interested in what new parents and soon-to-be parents think, since maybe they've had to consider something like this recently.

― pr00de, where's my car? (pr00de), Monday, 3 October 2005 23:54 (twenty years ago)

I think that stuff is bullshit, my parents didn't pull it on me either. When I was old enough to understand myth and tradition, I was aware of it as just that.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 00:01 (twenty years ago)

i don't think i would. i never derived much pleasure from believing in those kinds of things. though maybe it was a little bit fun. but you can still give kids presents on xmas, candy on easter, and give them money for their teeth without lying to them at all. on the other hand, it's not that emotionally damaging to lie about that kind of thing when they're young. don't know.

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 00:02 (twenty years ago)

I think it'd be just as damaging to NOT get kids into Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc. When you're little, you're supposed to hold deep inside you a sense of wonderment and innocence that would allow you to believe in anything. Even believe in miracles. If you're worried about the possible disillusionment that would come after the child(ren) find out there's no physical Santa or Easter Bunny or whatever, don't. Children are far more resilient than that. And besides, even if there isn't a physical Santa (for example), the spirit of Santa is still alive and well every time we give a gift to someone. The spirit of the Easter Bunny? Well, it's the same spirit that's tied into the Easter tradition, a sort of soft segue into the true meaning of the holiday, which might mean that part would be tricky if you're keeping up a secular household, but the whole idea of rebirth and renewal *could* be incorporated instead without the Easter season losing any of its punch. The Tooth Fairy? Hey, what little kid wouldn't appreciate some extra change? And besides, once the child learns about the Tooth Fairy, you could show them the small bag full of saved baby teeth you've kept for them and make them promise that they'll keep them for as long as they're alive. That's what my mom and dad did with me, though they didn't give me the actual bag itself (put inside my Tooth Fairy pillow) until I turned 18.

― This Field Left Blank (Dee the Lurker), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 00:37 (twenty years ago)

I myself grew up with the Santa/Easter Bunny traditions, obv. And I did learn all of that was a ruse by the time I was ten. But when I found out, I took it well. I didn't feel like my parents were duping me at all. I just felt like they were engaging in a tradition with very indulgent and enjoyable results for me, and that after that particular Christmas, I would be just as happy simply receiving presents from Mom and Dad and from being able to do more grown-up things for Easter, e.g. helping hide the Easter eggs for the younger members of the family. If I ever become a mother, I'm going to continue in that same vein, nurturing the same traditions. And if I'm any indication, my children too won't be "devastated" once they find out the true origins of these traditions.

― This Field Left Blank (Dee the Lurker), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 00:41 (twenty years ago)

what a load of old tripe

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 00:44 (twenty years ago)

The next thing you know, you'll be telling them that Racer X is Speed Racer's brother.

― k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)

We did the Santa and Tooth Fairy stuff with our daughter; Easter Bunny, not so much. As the kiddo started to suspect that we were Santa, we never explicitly admitted it, but sort of gradually let on with smiles and winks. That made it a grown-up secret that she was in on (making her feel grown up herself) but could ignore in favor of believing in Santa on those magic Christmas mornings when presents seemed to appear out of nowhere. So I have no idea when she stopped believing in Santa, and I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't know when she stopped, either.

― Rock Hardy (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)

I was like Rock Hardy's daughter. I'm very glad that the Santa mythos was a part of my childhood. You big Scrooges.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 4 October 2005 00:51 (twenty years ago)

Santa was fun you sour old Scrooges.

― shookout (shookout), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 00:55 (twenty years ago)

I swear, buncha prunefaces.

― Rock Hardy (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 00:57 (twenty years ago)

My god people, get some imagination. I believe that in many ways you should treat children as equals but denying them some of the harmless and fun magic of childhood is needlessly cruel.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 01:15 (twenty years ago)

I should also add that I think that letting a child believe in Santa and then letting them eventually discover the truth is a great way to raise a rational athiest. If you're some kind of fundamentalist who doesn't want those "pagan" symbols of Santa Claus and the Easter bunny to obscure your Christian holidays then by all means eliminate Santa.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 01:18 (twenty years ago)

what kind of sociopath didn't enjoy santa and related as a child?

― strng hlkngtn: what does it mean? (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 01:18 (twenty years ago)

My kids tried to work a scam on the Tooth Fairy by saving up their teeth until they wanted to buy a Nintendo. Then they chucked all of them under the pillow, but neglected to tell anyone. Sore disappointment, all around.

― Jaq (Jaq), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 01:20 (twenty years ago)

as long as you dont go to elaborate lengths to hide the truth from them (like directly lying to them), then i think it's fine

― ryan (ryan), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 01:22 (twenty years ago)

While we didn't actively discourage belief in Santa, we also didn't do the "dress 'em up, take 'em to the mall, stand in line for HOURS to get a screaming photo for $50" thing. We adhered to the 3 presents philosophy (something they wanted, something they needed, something we wanted them to have) for things under the tree (marked TO: but not FROM:) and well-stuffed stockings. The grandparents did the "loads of crap from Wal-mart" gift philosophy, all marked from Santa. The kids eventually decided Santa had a quality-control problem.

― Jaq (Jaq), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 01:27 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, true. I like Rock's approach, too, having it eventually turn into a kind of secret parents and kids share against the world, or something. I don't think it's sociopathic, though. I just don't think I'd feel honest doing that, if I ever had kids.
xpost

― pr00de, where's my car? (pr00de), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 01:28 (twenty years ago)

sorry i'm such a sociopath and a horrible parent of the future

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 01:28 (twenty years ago)

I just don't think I'd feel honest doing that, if I ever had kids.

Hahahaha, dishonesty is one of the top-3 parenting tools.

― Rock Hardy (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 01:33 (twenty years ago)

pr00de, let's have a child

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 01:37 (twenty years ago)

No kidding, Rock Hardy! And the phrase "Because I said so".

― Jaq (Jaq), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 01:38 (twenty years ago)

Why...why caitlin! How forward of you!

― pr00de, where's my car? (pr00de), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 01:41 (twenty years ago)

yet another case of overthinking. do you hate fun etc.
my parents never had to "ask" me to believe. they and society as a whole just set things up so i had no reason to question it til i was old enough to start hating fun on my own. in america---and many other western societies--there's hardly any cultural traditions, that it seems stupid to get rid of the enjoyable ones, no matter how recently they've became traditions or what their historical foundations are.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 01:57 (twenty years ago)

Yes, we hate fun. That's clearly it.

― pr00de, where's my car? (pr00de), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 02:00 (twenty years ago)

Ok you just are unable to see it.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 02:06 (twenty years ago)

No, I see why you would say that. I just don't agree.

― pr00de, where's my car? (pr00de), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 02:13 (twenty years ago)

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/493/36000608l2tq.jpg

you tell me.

― kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 02:20 (twenty years ago)

Now HIM I can believe in.

― pr00de, where's my car? (pr00de), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 02:26 (twenty years ago)

My parents did the whole Santa / Easter Bunny / Tooth Fairy charade, but as soon as I asked them point blank "Is this stuff for real?" they told me the truth. I think that's probably the best, most honest, and simplest way of dealing with it.

― Andrew (enneff), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 02:39 (twenty years ago)

I still feel like a schmuck for falling for that shit. I remember a friend of mine telling me that "What do Santa, the Easter Bunny, and a smart Aggie have in common?" riddle (Answer: none of them exist). I got all haughty and defensive because why would my own mother tell me somthing that not only wasn't true, but made me look like the playground jackass?

My sister was still in denial even in her teen years. Christmas morning, I'd say something like "It's cool that Mom got me this game" and she'd say "MOM? No, Santa got you that..."

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 03:26 (twenty years ago)

i wasnt allowed to believe in the easter bunny. every easter my mom would say 'no child of mine will believe in some wacking great rabbit hiding eggs in the backyard!'. i got a real present instead of eggs. a watch or something like that.

i never believed in the tooth fairy. that was more a 'look, just give me the 50 cents already, mom' type of transaction.

i believed in santa, though. i think most people remember when they found out the truth. i remember sitting with my mom and her friend and saying 'santa claus isnt real, you know' and both of them laughing and my mom saying 'oh well, there goes half your presents!'

the one i really had trouble letting go of was magic. not the sugary disney/hallmark kind of magic but the bewitched/i dream of jeannie type magic. even now i catch myself willing something to float across the room to me, half believing that it actually will. im pretty lazy. magic would help out a lot.

i dont really care if my kids believe in any of these things. to me, its better than raising a cynic or a smartass who thinks theyre superior to everyone else because they know the truth. its really hard to recover from cynicism. id also worry about nasty calls from the parents of the children whose beliefs were kicked in the ass by my kid.

― sunny successor (he hates my guts, we had a fight) (katharine), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 07:31 (twenty years ago)

It's not a case of "ask them to" more that you have to "play along" until they work it out for themselves.

I'll post a thread that tells a tale (rather than type it all out once again)

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 07:43 (twenty years ago)

The Tooth Fairy Classic/Dud ?

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 07:44 (twenty years ago)

Santa doesn't exist?

― Don King of the Mountain (noodle vague), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 07:50 (twenty years ago)

I think that stuff is bullshit, my parents didn't pull it on me either. When I was old enough to understand myth and tradition, I was aware of it as just that

How did your friends react when you told'em it was bullshit? (Serious question.)

My mum told me Sinterklaas (Sint Nicolas) was not real when I was about 11 yrs old. She was so afraid I'd be devestated, she had waited a few yrs longer before telling me.

"Uh, mum, I KNOW."

― nathalie, a bum like you (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 07:52 (twenty years ago)

11! I like the idea of kids having sex education before they even get told that there is no Father Christmas.

(That sentence sounds wrong - I don't mean that I think these lessons should immediately precede the 'No Santa' announcement) (and when I say 'I like it', I mean it amuses me)

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 08:18 (twenty years ago)

I got all haughty and defensive because why would my own mother tell me somthing that not only wasn't true, but made me look like the playground jackass?
My sister was still in denial even in her teen years. Christmas morning, I'd say something like "It's cool that Mom got me this game" and she'd say "MOM? No, Santa got you that..."

-- Pleasant Plains ///

That is quite heart melting.

― moley, Tuesday, 4 October 2005 08:20 (twenty years ago)

While you're telling them Santa doesn't exist, it's a good idea to throw in a detailed explanation of mortality and the pointlessness of their existence.

― Don King of the Mountain (noodle vague), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 08:21 (twenty years ago)

I used to write letters to "the fairies," and dear parents would write back in tiny handwriting on toilet paper, because that was the closest they could find to "fairy paper." I always suspected it was them, because you know, the handwriting was kind of similar, just smaller. But it was still nice to retain the magic. And it just morphed into a kind of mutual pretending for a while, until the fairies became boring and My Little Ponies moved onto the horizon.

My sister also spoilt the whole Santa thing when I was like six years old. She said she had seen our mother wrapping up a present, and the next morning, it was the same wrapping paper and present, only from "Santa." I know, deprived childhood. I still kept putting out the carrot and cake though just to see if our parents would continue the game. They did. It got a bit silly really by the time I was 18.

― salexander (salexander), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 08:32 (twenty years ago)

That is rather disturbing.

I remember it all came unstuck for me when my dad was driving us around in the care and I saw three different Santas. It was an explosive realisation that shook me to the core of my physical being. I had to reject Santa or become a conceptual dualist of some description. On that very day, I chose science instead of religion.

― moley, Tuesday, 4 October 2005 08:38 (twenty years ago)

I still kept putting out the carrot and cake though just to see if our parents would continue the game. They did. It got a bit silly really by the time I was 18.

carrot and cake? not even carrot cake?? santa scores a beer in every child occupied household (bad or good) each xmas eve in australia. thats why god loves australians the most.

― sunny successor (he hates my guts, we had a fight) (katharine), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 08:43 (twenty years ago)

Heavens no. My Australian family are *not* heathen drunks. Our Santa favoured sobriety. Otherwise how would he have been able to steer the sleigh? OUr presents would have ended up in the Red Sea.

― salexander (salexander), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 08:49 (twenty years ago)

do you really have to ask a child to believe in these things?

― bingo (Chris V), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 08:50 (twenty years ago)

Heavens no. My Australian family are *not* heathen drunks. Our Santa favoured sobriety. Otherwise how would he have been able to steer the sleigh?

the magic of christmas. duh!

― sunny successor (he hates my guts, we had a fight) (katharine), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 08:57 (twenty years ago)

Rock and Walter OTM, the hataz clearly can't remember how fantastic wonder and belief and anticipation is when you're a kid.

I doubt many children had the kind of spontaneous, devastating reaction that moley mentions above - rather a subtler, smoother and mainly subconscious realisation which leads to a nod-and-a-wink pretence that gets you extra gifts until you're 18 :)

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 09:04 (twenty years ago)

I think I had worked out that the Santa I visited in the shop wasn't really Santa by the time I was six or seven. It didn't stop me believing in the Santa that brought my presents. When I was nine I lost a tooth and conducted a scientific experiment to see if the Tooth Fairy was real or not (I didn't tell my folks). The next day I confronted my mum with the findings and she was honest with me and let me in on the secret. A few weeks later, I asked if the same was true with Santa and she told me that it was, but asked me to play along so as not to spoil it for my wee brother and sister.

I didn't feel at all let down by this. I was chuffed that my mum thought I was responsible enough to know the facts. At the same time, remembering the sense of wonder and amazement I felt when I saw my presents on Christmas morning, I couldn't spoil it for anyone else. I hope my kids (when they appear) grow up believing too.

Never had none of this Easter bunny malarkey though. We were too religious for that.

― scotstvo (scotstvo), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 09:21 (twenty years ago)

I can't remember ever believing in any of those things. Only memory like that that I have involves my best friend trying to convince me that there was a St.Nikolas. He sounded kinda scary, but he brought me chocolate, so I guessed it was all ok; and it was definitley a winking sort of acknowedlegement.

I don't think my childhood suffered much from not having any of these ppl around. There were dinosaurs, and Donald Duck, and stuff.

I think parents who tell their children about Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, etc. lack a sense of imagination. I plan to tell my kids that their christmas presents come courtesy of a giant albino octopus called "Mungo Jerry" who lives in Switzerland and spends his spare time shitting hamsters.

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 10:23 (twenty years ago)

You don't want that. The last thing you need is your kids upending strange animals' arses at the zoo while shouting "I can't see any hamsters!"

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 10:26 (twenty years ago)

The giant albino octopusses are safely enclosed in aquariums in most zoos I know of. Of course they wouldn't try to look for hamsters in the arses of zebras or something, my kids wouldn't be retards!

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 10:31 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 44 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Isn't there a fringe group called "Jews for Santa?"

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 19:30 (twenty years ago)

Oh no. That was "Jews for Jeebus."

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 19:31 (twenty years ago)

Also I am English, and I don't really think we have the Easter Bunny.

― 400% Nice (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 19:33 (twenty years ago)

stop copying me, please

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

you have the easter dormouse.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

he is always terribly embarrassed about misplacing the sweets.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 19:36 (twenty years ago)

stop copying me, please

I haven't read a single post of yours on this thread! Also I am older than you, so the stuff I did came first.

And you're not jewish!

― 400% Nice (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 19:38 (twenty years ago)

well, you copied someone, with the jewish thing

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

try being a bit more original, is all I'm saying

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 19:42 (twenty years ago)

Santa gives my kids a small gift every year. I make sure that I get credit for the really cool stuff. My nine-year-old is slowly coming to the realization that all things magical are only real in her dreams. I'm surprised it has taken so long, since elves don't usually make Princess Diaries DVDs in the Christmas specials. I think it's better to let them believe when they're young. Plus it's easier to break a nine-year-olds heart than a four-year-olds. At four they're still sweet. By nine they're starting to roll their eyes and slam their doors.

― Rebekkah (burntbrat), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

As long as your kids believe in this guy, they'll be fine.

-- Beth Parker

Strewelpeter! I had that book as a kid. When I was in Austria. That book has to be seen to be believed - oh, the pictures! The stories! No wonder my I turned out so twisted.

That little kid in the picture Beth posted is crying because he's having his thumbs cut off.

― moley, Tuesday, 4 October 2005 20:18 (twenty years ago)

I don't remember ever believing in Santa. My birthday is ten days before Xmas and the writing on the birthday presents was the same as Santa's presents so I knew who they were really from.

In order to deserve the later, inevitable opprobrium they will cast upon me, if ever I have children I will tell them Xmas presents come Satan. If they end up dyslexic, I'll just tell them they misunderstood me.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 20:50 (twenty years ago)

Fuck Santa Claus. Yeah, I said it. I'm a scrooge. If I ever have kids, I'm going to celebrate x-mas some other way. It isn't what it was when I was a kid. So even if I were to tell them about Santa, they won't get to experience x-mas the same way as I did when I was a kid.

― recovering optimist (Royal Bed Bouncer), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

You should celebrate Festivus.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

i wrote a letter to the easter bunny one year and got a reply, so he HAS to be real.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 21:55 (twenty years ago)

I think that stuff is bullshit, my parents didn't pull it on me either. When I was old enough to understand myth and tradition, I was aware of it as just that.

-- teeny (teen...), October 4th, 2005.

Could you explain it to me? How did you parents explain it to you? "People do stupid shit for fun?"

― Never Quite Got It, Tuesday, 4 October 2005 22:00 (twenty years ago)

You should celebrate Festivus.

Good idea! I read something last year about people actually doing this in San Francisco.

― recovering optimist (Royal Bed Bouncer), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 22:10 (twenty years ago)

Yes! Festivus! I love the druidical ring of it.
The consumerism of Christmas is absolutely disgusting, and the adults in my family have an agreement NOT to buy presents for each other. Part of it is self-interest. After all, when's the last time somebody from your family-of-origin gave you something that you really wanted? We buy presents for the kids, though, and some of those kids are getting pretty old. It's hard to buck the trend. All my doubts about myself as a mom pile up, and I imagine my kids as pathetic Dickensian orphans. Tiny Tims. I'd love to strip the holiday down to its bare Solstice Feast essence, especially since my kids and I are all atheists (not due to training, I swear. It just happened. Genes?).
Almost everything we were taught about love and marriage is even more pernicious than greedball notions of Santa, which only blight part of the year. The myth of the perfect match is responsible for a lot of loneliness.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 22:28 (twenty years ago)

maybe i hate santa partially because i HATE that christmas is tied with all the presents crap. it always makes me really sad. i think it should be more like thanksgiving, lots of people and fun. some presents, but not nearly as much. all i can think about every christmas is a kid in africa secretly looking into an american living room and saying, "what? he got all that crap he's going to forget about after this week? all i want is some food."

(i would like the solstice feast idea, too.)

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 22:40 (twenty years ago)

Feats of Strength!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 22:40 (twenty years ago)

all i can think about every christmas is a kid in africa secretly looking into an american living room and saying, "what? he got all that crap he's going to forget about after this week? all i want is some food."

If a kid has the ability to look through the walls of a house two continents away, then I don't think that he's going to be too impressed with an Elmo doll.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 22:48 (twenty years ago)

he's not impressed, he's hungry :(

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 23:07 (twenty years ago)

no, we will make believe together.

― youn, Tuesday, 4 October 2005 23:15 (twenty years ago)

The Airing of Grievances!

― nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 23:20 (twenty years ago)

Can I call attention the fact that Dee is carrying around a bag of teeth like the trophy bag of a Vietnam vet? SO CREEPY.

Correction #1: I don't carry around the Tooth Fairy pillow. I put it in this handy thing called a drawer. It's in this big piece of furniture called a chest of drawers. The Tooth Fairy pillow is where the "bag of teeth" is.

Correction #2: These are BABY teeth. VERY small teeth. They were WASHED CLEAN when each one of them fell out (of their own volition). They are also small enough to where the bag is a small jewelry bag, one where one might be able to store a pair of earrings or a necklace.

See? Now it's nothing remotely like toting "the trophy bag of a Vietnam vet" around. Geez, Williams, one would think you wouldn't know what "creepy" meant.

― This Field Left Blank (Dee the Lurker), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 23:30 (twenty years ago)

And Caitlin, I think there is this hope that people who grow up with the Santa tradition realize that it's all about how much happier it is to give than it is to simply receive. Isn't one of Santa's main descriptors that he's "jolly" all the time? And what is he best known for but giving away gifts to children? So there is that message that one can derive great joy from giving to others right there, in the Santa story. If you're looking for a Christian extension of that, you could extend that to how Jesus spent his ministry giving his time and energy to others who were hurt or in trouble and how he taught of being selfless and "whatever you do to the least of my brothers, you do unto me". But you could omit that whole bit if you're not Christian, obv. Anyway. There is THAT hope, which is unfortunately lost amongst most people, but I think some people get it.

― This Field Left Blank (Dee the Lurker), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 23:37 (twenty years ago)

he's not impressed, he's hungry :(

Well, tonight I thank God it's him instead of you.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 23:38 (twenty years ago)

This is also in keeping with the whole "classical" definition of conservativism, BTW, the whole idea of being charitable to others because it's a Christ-like thing to do. And I would go on with how unfortunate it is that the neocons have "conveniently" forgotten that message and instead turned into the Pharisees, but that's another discussion.

(xpost)

Oh dear, Pleasant Plains. I'm going to have that song stuck in my head for a long time now. "Do they know it's Christmas after all?"

― This Field Left Blank (Dee the Lurker), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 23:40 (twenty years ago)

There's nothing like a really slinky version of "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas."

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 23:44 (twenty years ago)

can we talk about the wacky dutch santa now, and his lil' moorish helper, black pete?

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~kangaroo/zwartepiet.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 23:49 (twenty years ago)

http://members.lycos.nl/Liefding/sint_6.htm

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 23:50 (twenty years ago)

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/102/704/640/P1010017.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 23:51 (twenty years ago)

Whoa! Access denied! Was that last one the X-rated Black Pete? I wanna sit on HIS lap!

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 23:55 (twenty years ago)

really? i can see it. he's on the street throwing chocolate coins dipped in hash oil or something.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 00:02 (twenty years ago)

"Sinterklaas has some similarities to Santa Claus, wearing red, riding a white horse over rooftops and climbing down chimneys to deposit gifts (sometimes in childrens' shoes by the fireplace), but he comes from Spain in a steam boat and is accompanied by many helpers named Zwarte Pieten (black Petes). The latter is sometimes regarded as politically incorrect (if not racist), but the tradition is strong. However, the traditional threat of black Petes beating bad kids with a rod or even taking them to Spain in a sack has only survived in songs, of which there are many, sung weeks in advance to anticipate Sinterklass' coming."

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 00:05 (twenty years ago)

taking them to Spain in a sack
If I'm bad enough will he do this for me, too?

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 00:09 (twenty years ago)

A conflation of Santa and that other Spanish tradition currently under discussion:

http://nerds.unl.edu/pages/preser/sec/2006cohort/activities/MrHanky.jpg

― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 06:45 (twenty years ago)

One time my mom suggested we do the feats of strength at our house. Oh how she laughed when it resulted in horrible injuries.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 13:16 (twenty years ago)

Yes! Here they really do the whole *shebang*. The have a Sinterklaas coming in with a proper boat!

I once came home saying:"Mummy, we had Sinterklaas in school but he wasn't the real one. His beard was fake."

― nathalie, a bum like you (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 13:22 (twenty years ago)

Julenisse is the way to go.

― bingo (Chris V), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 13:43 (twenty years ago)

The "Black Peter"'s were to do with going down chimneys.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 13:45 (twenty years ago)

A Mr Hanky just like that sits on my mantelpiece every December. My Mum bought him for me one year because he fit the leg of my stocking so well. Sure beats the tube of cotton wool pads I usually get.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 14:16 (twenty years ago)

the one i really had trouble letting go of was magic ... the bewitched/i dream of jeannie type magic.

Some weird zoroastrian, pagan, wiccan, voodoo, yoga paranormal activity is real, but probably a lot more scary and less cheerful compared to those sitcoms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_%28paranormal%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_and_religion

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:08 (twenty years ago)

Funnily enough...

Last night, our two were making Hamma Bead pictures, and Amber (7) said she was going to ask Santa for some Large size ones, to which Alice (5) replies "Oh, Santa doesn't exist. It's just something Parents invented fo Christmas presents"...

Anyway, upon asking who said all this to her, turns out it's the mother of one of her friends at school.

Anyway, Amber refused to believe her, and Dawn said something along the lines of "If you believe in magic, magic things happen."

I know, pro's and cons, but it's a bit early to be pondering all this, at five.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 6 October 2005 08:03 (twenty years ago)

Eh. I figured it out by 5, but then again I had siblings who were 5 and 9 years older than me.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Thursday, 6 October 2005 11:40 (twenty years ago)

"If you believe in magic, magic things happen."

Seriously, this seems to be true. My gf's little sister kicks ass at any game involving dice or cards because she believes she's going to win. It seems all kids believe like this and when we're young we accomplish things that we later look back on as old cowards set in our ways and marvel at how we succeeded at those things we believed we could do. And thankfully we don't have to do some of these things over again because, in retrospect, we can't believe we did these things anymore and certainly couldn't do them again. I wish I could muster up enough belief to get a new job.

― Old man coward, Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)

This is quite true. You know that card game where you spread the cards on the floor and pick two, you keep if you get a pair and turn them back over if you dont? Don't play Alice at this, you will lose.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 7 October 2005 06:54 (twenty years ago)

I will make them believe in all that stuff. It's important that kids learn the value of disappointment.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 7 October 2005 09:09 (twenty years ago)

Perhaps, I'll just give them this record:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/jel2004/servotron.jpg

It has "Death of the Sugarplum Fairy" on the b-side.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 7 October 2005 15:06 (twenty years ago)

no i will make them believe in one thing and one thing only: THE NAZI ILX ADMINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!, Friday, 7 October 2005 15:33 (twenty years ago)

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