Defend the Indefensible: "Do you know your PIN number?"

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OF COURSE I KNOW MY PIN NUMBER ITS MY CARD DON'T ACCUSE ME OF BEING A THIEF YOU TWAT

― Come Back Johnny B (Johnney B), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:24 (twenty years ago)

Am I over-reacting?

― Come Back Johnny B (Johnney B), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:24 (twenty years ago)

Ha ha, I've lost several cards over the years thru not knowing my PIN number

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:27 (twenty years ago)

Never respond "You hum it luv, I'll play it"

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:29 (twenty years ago)

i kind of don't know my PIN -- it's just muscle memory.

― N_RQ, Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:31 (twenty years ago)

so you just look dumb?

;-)

― nathalie, a bum like you (stevie nixed), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:31 (twenty years ago)

yeah, use it all the time at the ATM Machine meh

― Menelaus Darcy (Menelaus Darcy), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:32 (twenty years ago)

i thought you were gonna get all sad and pedantic about people saying PIN number rather than just PIN. in which case i would've sent the boys round to break your legs.

so, well done.

― g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:33 (twenty years ago)

What about the shopper's reply? "Yes, it's 1234" drives checkouteers mad.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:34 (twenty years ago)

is that pretending your PIN is "1234" or just saying your actual number, aloud?

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:37 (twenty years ago)

My logical workaround for the gramatical "incorrectness" of PIN number is that "PIN number" is what the 4 figure security code on your card is called. The fact that the etymology is from a TLA is neither here nor there.

― Come Back Johnny B (Johnney B), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:38 (twenty years ago)

my pin number is 1234

― N_RQ, Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:39 (twenty years ago)

The latter, Richard.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:39 (twenty years ago)

I’m sick of PIN numbers and passwords and key codes. My pc (sorry, workstation) at work has a password to nearly every application that has to be changed every month. Even fucking blockbuster asks for one, it’s a DVD not the fucking password for area 51! Twats, the lot of ‘em

Am I over-reacting?

― not-goodwin (not-goodwin), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:42 (twenty years ago)

I think I am going to try to remember to say "yes, it's 1234", from now on

but from now on? I think I've had "do you know...?" about twice. usually it's "just/please enter..."

maybe I really look like I know my PIN

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:43 (twenty years ago)

yes, it's 1234

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:43 (twenty years ago)

I think they're just asking that cos not everyone has a chip and PIN card activated yet? My previous card had a chip in it but couldn't be used as a chip & PIN card for some reason.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:43 (twenty years ago)

people who don't know their PIN shouldn't be allowed to have money.

― g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:50 (twenty years ago)

people who don't know their PIN can only have money, durr!

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:54 (twenty years ago)

aye.
people who don't know their PIN shouldn't be allowed to have money. (durr)

― g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:56 (twenty years ago)

I think they're just asking that cos not everyone has a chip and PIN card activated yet?

Yes, exactly. Up until recently I asked because I realized that a lot of cards haven't been activated yet. I stopped but this morning a French lady's card was apparently still swipe-only.

― nathalie, a bum like you (stevie nixed), Thursday, 13 October 2005 09:56 (twenty years ago)

I think they're just asking that cos not everyone has a chip and PIN card activated yet? My previous card had a chip in it but couldn't be used as a chip & PIN card for some reason.

Exactly right. They need to know if you've been issued a PIN or not - if not they have to use the old swipe-and-sign method. Maybe they should phrase it in a way that doesn't sound like they think you're stupid/criminal/both.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:01 (twenty years ago)

Maybe for you metropolitan types, but round here you get asked AFTER the machine has said "Enter your PIN", so they KNOW that your card's activated. I've just got a shifty looking face, I guess.

― Come Back Johnny B (Johnney B), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:06 (twenty years ago)

yeah, I thought this was going to be a pedantic debate about the redundancy of the phrase "PIN number". I had a chip and PIN card for ages that didn't work - it irritated me when people would ask me "do you know your PIN?" because I would have to reply "Yes, *I* know it, but my bloody card doesn't!"

However, now I've got one that works. I still find it vaguely disturbing.

― Paranoid Spice (kate), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:07 (twenty years ago)

I have just spent a minute trying to think of how that could be phrased and cannot formulate a single question that satisfactorally covers all the issues.

x-post I thought the point was that lots of people had credit cards they didn't ever use for ATM withdrawals so never learned the PIN for.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:07 (twenty years ago)

"Can you tap in your PIN number please?" would suffice.

― Come Back Johnny B (Johnney B), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:10 (twenty years ago)

I'm still waiting for the first time my fat (OK, not fat) fingers press the wrong buttons and I suffer the ensuing "Do you know if you're a criminal?" questioning.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:11 (twenty years ago)

x-post. Yes, that seems simple and elegant. However one might object that it rests on a false presumption: that one has a PIN number.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:12 (twenty years ago)

This is a matter for linguists and philosophers. I am neither.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:13 (twenty years ago)

Alba, you get three chances before they chop off your hands. We don't ask if you're a criminal; we deliver justice quickly 'n' swiftly.

― nathalie, a bum like you (stevie nixed), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:14 (twenty years ago)

i think this anger is irrational.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:14 (twenty years ago)

"would you like to enter your PIN?"

"I would like to"

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:14 (twenty years ago)

Don't be silly, hand chopping isn't for pin-thiefs, it's for LITTERBUGS.

― Paranoid Spice (kate), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:14 (twenty years ago)

a pin-thief wouldn't have gotten into alba's situation

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:15 (twenty years ago)

I hate handing over my card, only for the checkouteer to reach over and stick it in the machine right in front of me. And then you go to the next shop and you think you're being helpful by sticking your card in the machine yourself, but the checkouteer reaches across and yanks it out and sticks it in the swiper next to him. You'd think there'd be some kind of consistent method.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:15 (twenty years ago)

hypothetical situation i mean, of pressing the wrong pin. unless they also have fat fingers

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:16 (twenty years ago)

xpost SO TRUE

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:16 (twenty years ago)

BUt I like the hand chopping! Next time I have a client in the shop with no hands, I know I have to swipe the card!

Uh, not sure how he'll sign. But if he doesn't know, then off come the feet!

― nathalie, a bum like you (stevie nixed), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:17 (twenty years ago)

yes, it's annoying, when they don't let you put it in, yourself

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:17 (twenty years ago)

I hate handing over my card, only for the checkouteer to reach over and stick it in the machine right in front of me
haha, i love it when i see that happen to somebody. because i am cruel and evul, you see.

― g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:17 (twenty years ago)

My credit card doesn't have a PIN number, or at least, if it does, I don't know it. But I don't use if for anything anyway, that's what my debit card is for.

xpost to Madchen, yeah that happens a lot, I think the PIN entering machines break down a lot. At least they do in M&S round the corner.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:17 (twenty years ago)

Most cards have a pin code. My mother once tried it YEARS ago. Of course she didn't know her code, so the machine swallowed it. hahah

― nathalie, a bum like you (stevie nixed), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:19 (twenty years ago)

also, it seems weird that you have to stick the card into the pin machine upside-down (the pretty printed with numbers side down)

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:19 (twenty years ago)

I'm sorry, I'm still sniggering at the double entendres here. Please stop.

― Paranoid Spice (kate), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:20 (twenty years ago)

credit card pin codes were optional back in the day. (it may still be i dunno) for the student account they actually recommend you to not have it because they reckon students cannot handle their money properly and would end up using their credit card to draw cash all the time and incur ££££££ of fees and debt

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:21 (twenty years ago)

i dunno why they don't make the pinpads on ATMs in a little hole, like. yknow? so you have to put your hands in a little pit to type it in. then no motherfucker will be able to see what buttons you push. ok, should i go patent that idea?

xxpost
"i hate it when they don't let you put it in yourself" made me snigger, i have to admit. though it did require overlooking a strange comma. but i can deal.

― g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:22 (twenty years ago)

Just the one?

― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:23 (twenty years ago)

My mother once tried it YEARS ago.

I hope you told her not to.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:24 (twenty years ago)

i'm being kind here. xpost

― g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:24 (twenty years ago)

I think you should patent it as "the grotty vomit-filled hole"

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:25 (twenty years ago)

those commas are perfect

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:25 (twenty years ago)

ok. so it has a plastic-glass cover over it, so when you put your card in, the cover unlocks. see? PATENT APPLIED FOR, BITCH.

xpost "grotty, vomit-filled hole", btw

― g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:28 (twenty years ago)

it's a product name

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:29 (twenty years ago)

Besides, vomit usually *is* fairly grotty.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:30 (twenty years ago)

pinhole. surely

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:31 (twenty years ago)

What's the smeary white stuff you get on cashpoints sometimes? It looks like wank, but is that actually what it is?

― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:33 (twenty years ago)

perhaps, some people with really fat fingers have no option

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:34 (twenty years ago)

"please mash the keypad with your palm now"

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:39 (twenty years ago)

i gave up my inventor's career the day my Inventor's Pack arrived. they addressed it to Mr.Kitten* instead of Professor Kitten as i specified, which was just disappointing, to say the very least. when they called me to enquire as to what inventions i was working on, i fobbed them off and told them i wasn't Professor Kitten, i was his brother, and they would have to call back. they never did. i sure showed them, the fucking idea-stealing eggheads.

*name changed to protect sekrit identity, obv.

― g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:40 (twenty years ago)

aw i was just about to ask if you have a daughter

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:43 (twenty years ago)

well, you can still ask.

― g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:47 (twenty years ago)

but she wouldn't be miss kitten

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:51 (twenty years ago)

"the fingers you have used to dial - are too fat. To obtain a special dialling wand, please mash the keypad with your palm... NOW".

ARGH XPOST.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:53 (twenty years ago)

Damn yoo Steve ;P

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:53 (twenty years ago)

it's alright miss kittin doesn't have fat fingers

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:54 (twenty years ago)

oh, xpost

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:54 (twenty years ago)

nevertheless, you could still ask. it's only polite.

― g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:56 (twenty years ago)

"So what do I owe you?"

"$10.77. Same as my PIN number."

― tissp! (the impossible shortest specia), Thursday, 13 October 2005 10:58 (twenty years ago)

wow your card's passcode has non-alphanumeric characters?

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:01 (twenty years ago)

He wouldn't actually say '"dollar sign..."' though.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:01 (twenty years ago)

but he surely might say "dollars"

― g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:02 (twenty years ago)

he wouldn't say "one zero seven seven" either.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:03 (twenty years ago)

xpost

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:03 (twenty years ago)

worst argument ever.

― g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:05 (twenty years ago)

you didn't need to post 'xpost' there ken

xpost

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:06 (twenty years ago)

nor did i there

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:07 (twenty years ago)

Are there any pedants who say "PI number"? Apart from Ned obv

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:08 (twenty years ago)

I think this will need to wait for Trayce to pick up the joke... (xposts)

― tissp! (the impossible shortest specia), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:08 (twenty years ago)

maybe magnum might xpost

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:12 (twenty years ago)

Magnum would never add 'xpost' where it wasn't necessary.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:13 (twenty years ago)

and xxxxxxxxpost i totally needed the xpost there because it was in response to your post and without the xpost it would have been ambiguous as to which post i was writing in reply to.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:14 (twenty years ago)

I get irrationally angry when the cashier orders me (rather abruptly, I feel) to enter my PIN number NOW NOW NOW, when the machine isn't even ready yet and is still saying 'please wait'. Mind you, I'm not all that good with technology anyway - I'm still traumatised from trying to scan-and-pack my own shopping at M&S last week, and having everyone stare at me as some robotic voice from the till screamed "Unknown Item in your baggage" at me, as though I was some anarchist trying to scan WMDs instead of sunblush tomatoes. Sometimes I think that I shouldn't be allowed out to go shopping, really.

― C J (C J), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:14 (twenty years ago)

What's the smeary white stuff you get on cashpoints sometimes? It looks like wank, but is that actually what it is?

i think this needs to be addressed.

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:19 (twenty years ago)

yes, it's wank.

― g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:21 (twenty years ago)

that's what happens when they let you put it in yourself

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:27 (twenty years ago)

that's what really hurts

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:46 (twenty years ago)

TTHHRB.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:47 (twenty years ago)

I'm really, really glad I don't live in the stupid UK, with your stupid Chip and PIN garbage. Is credit/debit/ATM card fraud really that rampant?

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:48 (twenty years ago)

Don't these people know you can't make a deposit via an ATM (let alone on one)

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:49 (twenty years ago)

xpost

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:50 (twenty years ago)

Is credit/debit/ATM card fraud really that rampant?

If you'd asked me that a year ago, when £500 was siphoned out of my account, I'd have answered yes

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:51 (twenty years ago)

Is credit/debit/ATM card fraud really that rampant?

It is quite rampant, yes.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:59 (twenty years ago)

why is chip and pin garbage though? even if fraud is not rampant?? i mean, pen and signature is clever yes but remembering a number isn't really that backwards and outdated?

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 12:06 (twenty years ago)

>> I'm really, really glad I don't live in the stupid UK, with your stupid Chip and PIN garbage. Is credit/debit/ATM card fraud really that rampant?

It's kinda weird you say that, since the first time I was asked to enter my pin when I made a card purchase was in Los Angeles, but whatever.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 13 October 2005 12:18 (twenty years ago)

but remembering a number isn't really that backwards and outdated?

it's shielding it from others that's the problem, as the units tend not to offer much protection. granted neither do cash machines generally but you can always make sure there's no-one standing close enough to you to be able to see it.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 13 October 2005 12:25 (twenty years ago)

What's the problem? You just hold your other hand around the keypad like you did at school when somebody was trying to copy your answers.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 13 October 2005 12:29 (twenty years ago)

but it's still a step forward from SIGNATURES right?

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 12:29 (twenty years ago)

xpost

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 13 October 2005 12:31 (twenty years ago)

What's the problem? You just hold your other hand around the keypad like you did at school when somebody was trying to copy your answers.

I tried doing this the other day and felt like a paranoid nerdy spaz.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 13 October 2005 12:44 (twenty years ago)

You'll soon get over it.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 13 October 2005 12:58 (twenty years ago)

It's kinda weird you say that, since the first time I was asked to enter my pin when I made a card purchase was in Los Angeles, but whatever.

was it a credit card or a debit card? they're different things.

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 13 October 2005 13:07 (twenty years ago)

Debit card. What difference does it make?

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 13 October 2005 13:09 (twenty years ago)

banks give you a card with your checking account with a visa logo on it. you can run it through w/out using a pin as a credit card, this means Visa deals with the transaction, which costs the merchant money. Lots of places don't want to pay this so they make you run it as a debit (or ask you for your PIN) and it's run as an ATM transaction through your bank. This may or may not result in your bank charging you for the transaction (mine does).

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 13 October 2005 13:10 (twenty years ago)

OK, it doesn't work that way here. Actually I do remember I had to use it as a credit card because I didn't have chip & pin activated back then, it wasn't even in use in the UK at the time.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 13 October 2005 13:13 (twenty years ago)

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