friends who always want to have expensive birthday celebrations - C or D

I mean, dinner, yeah, fair enough. But a skiing trip? That sounds really excessive.

friends v&c who are getting married this weekend had a hen party in italy, a stag party in holland or somewhere, a night out drinking in the norfwest where they live and a night out drinking in london where they used to live, so whatever your budget was you could definitely make one of them. this many things would probably be a bit excessive to do every year for your birthday, but you can at least have a night down the pub as well as the main extravaganza event.

am totally down with those of you complaining about people wanting to split the bill when they've been drinking £3 bottled beers and eating tiger prawns and having desserts when you've been quietly figuring out the option you can afford and ordering accordingly... you feel like such a tightarse pointing it out, but when you're living on £45 a week it isn't fair to be expected to spend half of it on someone else's dinner.

The next day, I received my fortnightly dole payment. She went to the bank to get some cash and suddenly realised that her account was empty until payday, which was over a week away. She's barely spoken to me since.

And it becomes more of an issue when certain people are repeat offenders. There are certain people I will no longer go out to dinner with because they are constantly doing this kind of thing. It's not like they're short of money, either. It's just sheer meanness.

Oh, I know that from experience - I remember when I went grocery shopping, having to keep a running total of how much I was spending in my head as I put each item in the basket.

MEN! We must stand together to samsh the enforced hedonism & consumption of stag tyranny

on the other hand, great as my friend is, i dunno if i can stomach a whole week with him and the two other guys that are going. it might be fun but on the other hand... i dunno. hes a friend who ive known for ages, but i feel like im kinda growing apart from in a way, kinda like ive got nothing more to really 'learn' (?) from him or something. not sure what it is exactly. plus i dont wanna go and be thinking about money while forking out for things (if i did go of course, i would have to leave all money conscious thoughts at the airport as holidays where you are thinking about cash are no fun at all).

Twat.

i mean this is weird, it's somebody birthday isn't it? so it kind of really is up to them what they want to do? it's not really about you. but it would be a courtesy to take into account of your friends obviously when organising things, if it is ever possible to accomodate everybody.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, even though I wouldn't ever do that. I realize that if you're on the dole, 3 quid can make a big difference. I was just talking from my POV, I just don't care that much about money, especially when it comes to social gatherings.

Everyone does this - even if it's just ordering a more expensive dish - 'cause they think the group will absorb the cost. But everyone does it so everyone ends up paying big bucks - that's why group meals are always so expensive. It's been scientifically proven!

Honestly, this makes me feel like a freak. Do people really think that way?

The London group spent wisely, sharing bottles of house white and so on. The trustafarian group drank bottles of beer, kept ordering bottles of champagne for the birthday girl and all had at least three courses.

When they were done, but before the bill came, the b'day girl and her friends from home announced that they were off to a club, chucked in about £15 each and left the London friends behind. The total bill, if split evenly between everyone who was there, would have worked out as £34 each, even though one set of people had only spent about £12 each.

But in the end the London friends had to cough up three or four times what they actually spent in order to cover the bill.

We haven't been to the person in question's birthday celebrations since.

yeh but it's not about not being ripped off, it's about just not having that much money in the first place. i can't afford to drink whiskey and eat desserts and i totally don't mind not doing it, but to do it would just push the bill up more and exacerbate the problem.

I am usually pretty cheap otherwise, so no, Kate, you aren't alone there.

C'mon down, luna. The Oyster Bar is serving oysters again.

This describes the person I was complaining about upthread to a T. He is no longer in my circle of friends.

Anyway, also - on the "it's not like places have roast duck and then grilled cheese for veggies" comment - that's just not true either. A few years ago, I was taken for a posh meal at a high end restaurant (and I'm not complaining about the bill splitting because someone else picked up the tab, for which I was extremely grateful as I'd never have been able to afford the place) and every single option on the menu was fish - except the veggie option, which was SCRAMBLED EGGS ON TOAST. I kid you not.

OK, this is the exception rather than the rule (well, in London at least, we're not talking about the provinces) but for someone with fish allergies something like that is a minefield. I'm quite careful before I agree to eat somewhere to check that there is a veggie menu (sorry if this seems like nitpicking but it's important to me and my friends) - but the only two noticable exceptions to this in the past five years have both been birthday celebrations where I had no say in the choice of restaurant. But what am I going to do - be the bitch and refuse to go to a friend's birthday? No, I went - even if the second place actually made me sick.

Most group dinners Ive been to thats how its done - you all throw down what you actually owe! It really isnt that hard, surely. Re-review the menu, work it out. Or find yr items on the bill. No one at all in this thread seems to have mentioned this and Im really baffled.

Splitting evenly OTOH should always, I think, be decided upon at the start somehow. I have not very often been at dinners where anyone's buggered off early - though that did happen once (several people appeared to have snuck off witthout leaving ANY money, and so everyone else had to cover about $50 of their eats/drinks; this was an IRC meetup dinner though, so more fool all of us for trusting semi-strangers).

Theres always the set menu option for large groups. That way everyone pays the same, and if you want something special/different then tough, you pay for your own, seperately.

It occurs to me that the trick may be to eat with people you like and trust.

this thread is a tough one. on the one hand, i'm someone that usually (not always, but 90% of the time) get the raw end of the deal as far as group bills go. i don't eat meat, and rarely drink with dinner, so those differences can add up quickly. i don't like to nitpick and cause a stir, but i've noticed that very often the people that say 'let's just split it!' are the ones that have ordered two starters, nibbles (like poppadums), expensive main, and side dishes as well, plus bottles of beer. if you actually look at the difference in price, it's like my meal was roughly £8 for a starter and main, and i'm happy to chuck in a fiver for tip and the 'honor' of being invited to a group meal, whereas they're closer to £30 a head.

so am i actually just supposed to eat that? i end up avoiding eating with one particular couple now after this happened several times, and i just got sick of it. i know it isn't done in an intentional and mean way, but it can be really frustrating to have to subsidize what other people are eating.

i agree with andrew and trayce, it shouldn't be that hard for people to actually think of what they owe, or even better having the restaurant provide separate bills (toby can share his canadian experiences for this).

oddly enough, when these things are birthday meals, the people all for splitting things 'equally' almost always forget to put money in so the birthday person doesn't have to pay, which i figure is a big part of the evening.

Do people who 'only have a coke' feel the same way about buying rounds in pubs?

What I hate is when you go to collect all the money together and someone obviously hasn't put enough in and no-one will own up to it. This doesn't happen with my close friends but has a few times with larger groups.

except v. close friends but, even then, why not?

in montreal it was standard for each diner to be given a separate check, according to what they'd ordered. this worked very well, esp as i was dining with strangers, and was generally actually quicker than splitting would have been.

This is the subtext for this entire thread.

-- RickyT (boyofbadger...), October 18th, 2005 11:29 AM. (RickyT) (later)

Utterly OTM. This ALWAYS happens, and believe me, there are few things that make you seem more of a cunt than saying "um dude, can you give us another £3, you forgot the tip".

I knew there was a reason I had that dream about you driving the minivan with "Adolf Hitler" painted on the side ;P

(I really did!)

in montreal it was standard for each diner to be given a separate check, according to what they'd ordered.

Yes, this seems to be a good system.

That's not a birthday party, that's meeting in a bar.

I go by the Vicar's old rule here. If you're having drinks in a bar, no present. If you want a present you have to throw some kind of party/dinner/brunch thingy.

On my last birthday, I had a walk, lunch in a restaurant, and a pub meet-up. Different people turned up to different bits according to their interests/incomes and everyone (including me, for a change) had a good time!

Aaah, sweet! :-) I'm baffled that this thread created more than 200 replies! As if you need to argue with friends over money. I think it's a bit sad really.