Thank you MTV, and thank you Jesus, in that order.

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I watched MTV this morning then. And that "Becoming" programme was on. The one where people dress up as popstars and shoot their videos for a day. OK so that's scary enough, but it's the way the people are that's the worst. It's the most depressing programme on tv, the girl was dressing like Britney and she was like "God now that they've done the make up, I feel like maybe I AM Britney", and then worst of all at the end "thank you mtv, thank you so much, this is the best day of my life, I won't even dream about anything now because nothing can top this, thank you so so much".

How can someone be that indebted to a fucking tv station? Don't they even see why it's all being done "for them"? I sound like such a killjoy perhaps but also, how can someone need a popstar? And isn't the whole idea of "being them" a little bit morbid, in a single white female kind of way?

Fanatic was bad enough but this is gone too far. So what does ILE think?

― Ronan, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

"MTV has just woken me up, in a 5 star hotel, this is sooooooooooooooo fantastic" new answers.

― Ronan, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

television is god. whose this jesus christ?

― Geoff, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

The son of god. Does that mean that Richard Blackwood is our Saviour?

― Jonnie, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

well I tell you , once they stopped playing videos, it was the begining of the end

― mike hanle y, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I don't mind MTV per se. It's just these shows.

― Ronan, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

i'm hoping it's just a phase? I mean, when you're a kid, you've got all kinds of mental energy you can expend on whatever. so perhaps blowing it on britney spears may not be worse than those kids who spend all night playing diplomacy or castle risk.

actually, that's all crap. it is much worse because it leads to disturbing body and identity issues. it's not like the castle risk geeks spend the rest of their life trying to invade stuff.

― dave k, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

whoa. i just noticed the long games thread; no disrespect to the diplomacy freaks over there....

― dave k, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

"blowing it on Britney Spears"? Hmm...

― Mark C, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

mark!!

― Ronan, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Good Books: "Four Arguments for the Elimanation of Television" Jerry Mander... "No Logo" Naomi Klein.

But I admit, that "Slave" song by Britney is good. ha!

― Gage-o, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

It's the qn of 'influence' again. Britney is famous for image and videos and look - this is what she does best. So MTV Girl tries to do that too. Initially this involves following the idol assiduously, maybe later now this has been completely achieved she will be able to break away from this and find her own look/identity. It's a familiar process in several ways - I started writing because I wanted to write like certain people. Eventually I am able to write as much like those people as I ever will and can then start dismantling that. Or you could think of Ryan Adams' relationship with Neil Young ha ha.

It's not as unhealthy as it looks in other words.

― Tom, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Balls to Britney, the Backstreet Boys 'Becoming...' is hilarious.

― DG, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

This is very snobby, but it seems far worse when it's Britney Spears. And also Tom you and Ryan Adams (sorry had to get that in a sentence) are different because you aren't having actual fantasies to be the person. As I say above the part that really was scary was what she said when they were shooting the video. I think it's some kind of lack of identity thing, which yes everyone might suffer from at her and admittedly my age, but in terms of cringey (and scary) ways to handle it, hers is one of the worst.

― Ronan, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

intensity of influence => anxiety of influence => growing up and shrugging off => bitterness and anger at betrayal => social turmoil => revolution

― mark s, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

but WHY worse when it's britney? (eg because she's terrible or because she's brilliant?)

― mark s, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

because you aren't having actual fantasies to be the person

Oh yeah? (Speaking for Ryan too here). Not Single White Female fantasies but then I think neither are BritGirl's, i.e. none of us want the idol's life we want that part of her life which we see publically. When BritGirl says "I could almost be Britney" she's talking purely imagistically I'd guess.

― Tom, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Far worse to want to be Ian Curtis, because then you DIE!

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

That said I'm not totally unsympathetic to Ronan. If (like I keep saying) the point of machine-pop is that it is pop made without the autonomy of the artist being a factor, then it does make a point- missing difference to aspire to be Britney

― Tom, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

when i gwow up i wanna be a wobot

― mark s, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

The point she's missing being that she's Britney anyway.

― Tom, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I like to watch the Box. They played So Solid Crew, Jimmy Eat World, Britney, Ana Ann (worst video of the year, early contender), and some other stuff this afternoon, I fell asleep.

― james, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

the girl from "Becoming" was definitely scarily concerned. How was it the best day of her life? I mean, I'm not that comfortable with picking out single days in my life anyway, but I think to dress up as someone and ape them in such a determined fashion, you have to be a little lacking in something. I realise you're saying Britney is famous as a result of looks and image, but surely being obsessed with looks and image IS far worse than being obsessed with someones "work". Britney also makes music, and i don't recall the BritGirl saying anything about the music.

― Ronan, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

So I saw this.... and I'm not sure I know what to say. The tears, the "omigod!"s, the systematic Britnification, and, yes, all that "Thank you MTV!" gushing.... I keep imagining this girl going back to her dorm in UCLA expecting everybody to somehow acknowledge her. She'll be walking around campus thinking "I wonder if this person knows I was Britney Spears" and will helplessly cling to that one fateful day. Maybe it will culminate to the point of nervous breakdown and psychological devastation and she'll sit sobbing away, watching her video over and over for some forever lost strand of comfort. It's scary that she's probably around my age.

― Honda, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

"Best day of my life" = massive national TV thing is paying me attention in a way nothing massive or national has before. I wouldn't be comfortable with it either but saying that I once wrote in to Jim'll Fix It asking to be a Dalek.

Britney of course doesn't have much to do with making the music, though it's still the centre of what she does. I've been spending a couple of years now thinking about how the music fits in between Britney and the fans and I still haven't quite got a handle on it - it's both crucial and irrelevant somehow.

― Tom, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

As a point of general discussion, I was watching the Baby One More Time video this morning and I came to the conclusion that it's a bit of a masterpiece. The actual video. It doesn't look too expensive, but surely it's got to take alot of credit for Britney having become what she is today. Few of her other videos have been that impressive, particularly not the follow up singles off that album.

― Ronan, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Actualy Honda the fact that she's acknowledging that nothing after this will seem as good probably means she won't go back to campus and expect everyone to treat her like a queen. i.e. it's "Best day of my life" rather than "Start of my new life".

― Tom, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

tom i think if you'd seen this girl's reaction you would have been more than a bit unnerved, because of its sheer *power* -- the end when she starts crying is really really freaky and upsetting.

that said, the limp bizkit one's much worse, because it has a taped missive from fred d. that's not unlike the osama tapes in its sheer ickiness and megalomanical tendencies.

― maura, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Didn't one of the guys in the Limp Bizkit one start crying, too?

― Dan Perry, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I thought that said "Thank you MTV and thank you Jess", Ronan.

Jess--he's like Jesus without the you!

― Arthur, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Hmm I caught just a bit of that channel and it is the worst bunch of crud I have had the mispleasure of seeing! I'm lifting my 32 in. TV and ready to give it the old heave ho. If they call that music, BRING BACK THE 50"S! I would call it MUCHO SEX & NOISE. If a person is blessed with talent, they don't have to sell sex! Let's discuss!

― Gale Deslongchamps, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

gale how does this fit with your ten most fuckable actors list?

― ethan, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

and what about ile?

― ethan, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Gale's hypothesis fails to account for beautiful folk like Anthony (never mind the majority of ILE, as Ethan alludes to). That's just plain wrong.

― David Raposa, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

"And coming in at #1 on TRL for the fifth consecutive week, it's 'Mucho Sex And Noise' by the Backstreet Boys..."

― Dan Perry, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Surely the 50s was MUCHO SEX AND NOISE in the first place. Can we nick that for an FT tagline Gale, we're storing them up.

― Tom, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

wait... this britney girl is a *college student*??! i assumed she was like twelve or something. i now think ronan is right...

― dave k, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

"No sex please we're FreakyTrigger. Shhhh!"

― mark s, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Personally, in lieu of videos, the only good things ever shown on MTV were the animated programs, which unfortunately have been marginalized by crappy RoadRules\Real World Get-Together-for-no-reason-ratings-booster, wrestling for some inconceivable reason(it belongs to Ted Turner, dammit!), and the sappy Fight FOr Your Rights shit, which would be good if it wasn't so cleaned-up and biased. No, I miss Beavis and Butt-Head, Æon Flux, Celebrity Deathmatch, Ren & STimpy(which is now on VH1, I don't know why), and of course Daria, which SUBTLE HINT I just happen to have a brand-new message thread for on LUSENET, at http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a.tcl?topic=Daria I do like the addition of Spongebob Squarepants to MTV, but what about Sifl and Olly??? They were the best, admit it!.

― Stynki, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

and the state. man, i loved that show. "here's an idea; why don't you try pants?" heelarious.

― dave k, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Hi You all:) I take it you don't watch CMT? I was talking late 40's early 50's. The people were talented and didn't have to sell sex. ( Like Tony Bennet , Jo Stafford Johnny Ray, Perry Como Teresa Brewer, Patty Paige Gale Storm, Rosemary Clooney) ( NO SEX SOLD HERE) If there was however it was NOT all on TV.

― Gale Deslongchamps, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Hi Tom What is an FT tagline?

― Gale Deslongchamps, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Hi Ethan, No call to get feisty! i'm not singling Brittany S out but anyone who has to sell sex to get ahead! And believe me I would NOT have sex with a movie star but I wouldn't mind meeting them.

― Gale Deslongchamps, Wednesday, 2 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

but gale, the 50s sold lots of murder and violence - johnny cash shot a man just to see him die, gene pitney killed liberty valence - isn't sex better than violence?

― Geoff, Thursday, 3 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

But painting by numbers is better than sex.

― Sam, Thursday, 3 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Thats body painting by numbers you're thinking of.

― Ronan, Thursday, 3 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

sex = panting by numbers.

― Sam, Thursday, 3 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

someone make a 69 joke. whoops there it is!

― Ronan, Thursday, 3 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Why it strikes me wrong for 17 Y/O girls have to get almost naked to sell their music :( They put themselves out wide open for abuse/rape ia a big possibility as well:( One of my fav. singers/ actresses was raped and it all but ruined her life. I can see that talking here is like telling men to stay out of bars where 16 & 17 Y/O are stripping! What these same men don't realize is it can be their own daughters on that stage. How would THEY like a bunch of men watching their daughters? I personall had a first couysin who was a stripper, and she was found in a ditch raped & beaten to death. All of this mixed with MTV. does it for me and I guess it just hits a little too close to home. By the way my cousin was 22.

― Gale Deslongchamps, Thursday, 3 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Here is one more reason for you. Do you remember little Jon Bonet Ramsey? If you think sex is better, I would say they are pretty close. I do have reasons for what I post here. I'm sorry they don't always coinside with everyone else's. What did my post have to do with Anthony?

― Gale Deslongchamps, Thursday, 3 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Do you remember little Jon Bonet Ramsey?

Yes, I do. That whole situation was sick, largely because I firmly believe that the murderer is someone within that family and I will be stunned beyond belief if credible evidence surfaces that points elsewhere.

― Dan Perry, Thursday, 3 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Do you get to keep the clothes on this show? Being made over as a rock star sounds pretty good to me. I really want a skinny-lapel black suit like on the cover of "Parallel Lines", so right now I'd pick Jimmy Destri. At different periods of my life I'm sure my choiced would have been different. Since I haven't seen the show, I'm not sure how "into it" the kids get, but it sounds like fun to me.

― Sean, Thursday, 3 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

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