Cricket : England Tour of Pakistan 2005

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Vaughan is out of 1st test match. Tres is captain.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/4424182.stm

I would personally pick Collingwood ahead of Bell.
I think it's going to be a very tough series and i'm not sure how england will cope against the spinners.
Your thoughts?

― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Thursday, 10 November 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

I'm confident England will cope pretty well against the spin. They played Warnie all right last summer and he's the best in the world. Calling up Mushtaq Ahmed is a pretty desperate move on Pakistan's part.

See the thing is, every time I think "Cor, England could struggle this time" they win. I didn't expect to win the Ashes, I didn't expect to beat South Africa last winter, or the Windies the winter before that. England have this habit of adjusting their game to do what's necessary this time.

I'm reluctant to criticise the batting too much after the first two warm-ups as they were deliberately played on seaming pitches completely unlike the first Test surface (which was a tactic Pakistan employed on the last England tour, much good it did them). Bell will play because Vaughan isn't, and I reckon he'll come good. Tresco and Strauss are the world's best opening partnership now I think (poss exception being Smith / Gibbs when they open together). I'm confident in Giles and Udal (though I'd dearly lpove to see Read keeping to them, on turning pitches I recjkon Jones is going to cost about 6-8 wickets over the three tests. The seamers will keep it tight, the only question mark is over the middle order, and even then you write Pietersen and Bell off at your peril, and Freddie is, of course, Freddie.

― Matt (Matt), Thursday, 10 November 2005 15:33 (twenty years ago)

Collingwood (no5) ws always going to be preferred ahead of the totally out-of-form Bell w/pietersen going in at 4. And I think you're gonna see Harminson, Hoggard and Flintoff as the seamers and Udal/Giles as the spinners. Now Vaughan's injury means that its between Cook or Bell and what it comes down to is whether Fletcher gambles on a 20 year old. He prob should, i reckon.

(Prior is also putting some pressure on jones but i think he's ok for now.)

Tough series when you consider that eng haven't had much time but they agreed to this schedule (maybe we could've played the one-day series first). I'd expect eng to get better as the series progress, and as long as we're not 1-0 down by next week we have a great chance to win. xp

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 10 November 2005 15:35 (twenty years ago)

Thing is its a completely diff game now -- we've beaten the aussies and the expectation is really fucking high and in some ways its gonna be how eng cope not only with that extra expectation but also with the absence of vaughan's calming influence in the field. Woolmer has got pakistan more organized, but that's when you compared with some of their really shambling sides of recent times.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 10 November 2005 15:39 (twenty years ago)

It's worth noting that the matches are scheduled to start realtively early (9.30), so bowling first will be heaven sent for the seamers. And I'd back Harmison / Flintoff / Hoggard on damp pitches against Akhtar / Sami / Naved-Ul-Hasan, excellent bowlers though they undoubtedly are. particularly as it looks like nos 1 and 2 in the order are a serious problem for Pakistan. They've got a wonderful attacking middle order, but if that middle order's trying to pull itself out of the mire after early wickets they could be exposed.

― Matt (Matt), Thursday, 10 November 2005 15:43 (twenty years ago)

Apparently Aktar has benn 'read the riot act'!! I think for them its all to do whether their seamers can fire, and do so consistently. And yes, right now you'd think that we have the better openers but the middle order is totally out of form. But hopefully it will all click on these flatter wickets (it ws um, 'good' of pakistan to get eng practicing on seam-friendly pitches)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 10 November 2005 15:48 (twenty years ago)

**Tresco and Strauss are the world's best opening partnership now I think (poss exception being Smith / Gibbs when they open together).**

I kinda rate Tendulkar and Sehwag.

Bell will play instead of Vaughan i think.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 10 November 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

Tendulkar doesn't always open though. I thought Gambhir / Sehwag was India's Test opening pair?

― Matt (Matt), Thursday, 10 November 2005 16:21 (twenty years ago)

I read where they are going to try Tendulkar there again now he's back. But you're right he doesn't open much. Gambhir/Sehwag looks good too!

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 10 November 2005 16:39 (twenty years ago)

Not a great toss to lose. Sounds like attritional stuff. Congrats to Udal on his first test wicket

― Matt (Matt), Saturday, 12 November 2005 09:58 (twenty years ago)

yup, congrats. Hoggard's just got a wkt with the new ball - 6 wkts on a slow pitch makes for an excellent day.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 12 November 2005 11:34 (twenty years ago)

Nice one. I've just had to stop watching cos my daughter wanted the telly. This has been a very good England performance: they've needed to be disciplined and they have been.

― Le Marquis de Salade (noodle vague), Saturday, 12 November 2005 11:37 (twenty years ago)

An impressive performance all told. I didn't realise quite how long the Pakistani tail is, so, all out 320 and then bat for two and a half days.

I'm particularly pleased for Harmison, he's proven he's not just a bang-it-in merchant.

― Matt (Matt), Saturday, 12 November 2005 12:13 (twenty years ago)

It 4.50am and I can't sleep. England have taken a wicket! 252 for 7!

― Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Sunday, 13 November 2005 04:50 (twenty years ago)

All out 274. That's a fantastic effort (surprised to to see Inzi go so cheaply, it looked like he was never going anywhere). At 72-1 England are now in potentially an excellent position to dictate the game.

― Matt (Matt), Sunday, 13 November 2005 07:23 (twenty years ago)

Fifty for Tresco, it's all looking pretty comfortable...

― Matt (Matt), Sunday, 13 November 2005 08:36 (twenty years ago)

240 for 2 as I write. This is not how imagined it would be at all.

― Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Sunday, 13 November 2005 11:19 (twenty years ago)

100 for Tresco and Bell took his chance v well.

This is surprisingly easy so far.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 13 November 2005 11:46 (twenty years ago)

Well done Ian Bell. I'm glad he has his confidence back.

― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Sunday, 13 November 2005 11:56 (twenty years ago)

After day 3 I'd say its in the balance as Pakistan fight back. Good late strike from Flintoff but if the rest of their middle order get going eng will have to chase a v decent total to win.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 14 November 2005 11:58 (twenty years ago)

Pakistan are minus 19 for 2. They've fought back but I'd still rather be in our position than theirs.

― Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Monday, 14 November 2005 13:22 (twenty years ago)

Particularly now. Astonishing fightback this morning.

Oops, spoke too soon.

― Matt (Matt), Tuesday, 15 November 2005 11:19 (twenty years ago)

England victory still on the cards tho surely?

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (and His Endless Stupid Jokes) (Dada), Tuesday, 15 November 2005 11:26 (twenty years ago)

You'd think so but 198 has been defended before. Eng have a v inexperienced middle order...

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 15 November 2005 11:29 (twenty years ago)

I'll still back England to do it, all it takes is a couple of the batsmen to fire, and this wicket has flattened right out and not broken up at all. It's still a brilliant batting track.

― Matt (Matt), Tuesday, 15 November 2005 11:31 (twenty years ago)

It won't be a problem. 1-0.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 15 November 2005 11:35 (twenty years ago)

Tres is out.

― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Tuesday, 15 November 2005 11:48 (twenty years ago)

Sure, I back Eng...

its 24-1 after 9 overs.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 15 November 2005 11:50 (twenty years ago)

138-7 at lunch.

― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 07:17 (twenty years ago)

175-9.

not too sure I'm backing 'em now.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 08:27 (twenty years ago)

175 all out.

:-(

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 08:29 (twenty years ago)

Gaaah.

The annoying thing is it's England's fault. The pitch was relatively blameless (particuarly by the standards of a fifth day track). For all the talk of England playing their "natural game" I do wish Pietersen and Flintoff would occasionally just get their heads down and get on with it (horrible slash outsode off and horrible chip to midwicket respectively). Some of the batsmen just got good balls, others were more culpable. And I repeat, if Jones is in there because we want a keeper / batsman, how come he doesn't even average thirty? GET ONE CHRIS READ.

Oh well, we'll win the next two :-)

― Matt (Matt), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 08:36 (twenty years ago)

Pathetic. It makes me come over all Boycott.

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (and His Endless Stupid Jokes) (Dada), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 11:14 (twenty years ago)

Like I saw way above I expect eng to improve but also think its not v reasonable to expect two more result tests. Looking at 1-1 here.

Matt we don't really know if Chris Read would've made a difference. Also Flintoff/Pietersen have a set way of playing, its high-risk but it worked at Trent Bridge and the Oval against the aussies but it won't work all the time. We really do need someone to mature into that middle-order 'glue'; that's what Graham Thorpe's role in the side was.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 11:57 (twenty years ago)

You have to say the style of play leads us to these neck and neck last minute shoot-outs which are great for the excitement of the game. Not necessarily great for the winning record of England mind. (We missed Vaughn's luck).

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 12:03 (twenty years ago)

**And I repeat, if Jones is in there because we want a keeper / batsman, how come he doesn't even average thirty? GET ONE CHRIS READ.**

Uh? But at least GJ showed some application. BTW GJ's test average is 29.5 (21 games) and first-class average is 35. Read's test average (OK, only 11 games) is 15 and his first-class average is 29.
By comparison Flintoff's test average is 33 (54 matches). There's no doubt that GJ is fulfilling the role they want him to do, but obv his keeping is questionable.

You would have hoped that one of the batsmen would have stayed in long enough to guide the team in. The real problem was a steady loss of wickets with no continuity to the innings.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 17 November 2005 08:26 (twenty years ago)

I agree that Jones showed application, I'm just harking back to a point I was banging on about throughout the ashes, viz if Jones is ostensibly there as a keeper/batsman his average doesn't really cut it, and you may as well pick a specialist wicketkeeper (which on turning subcontinental pitches makes a sight more difference). It wasn't really with regard to this game (which was one of his better performances, I agree).

Flintoff's average over the last couple of years is a fuckload higher than 33, also. 42.72 since the start of the last Windies tour.

― Matt (Matt), Thursday, 17 November 2005 09:41 (twenty years ago)

I don't anyone expects GJ's average to be up there with one of the top-order batsmen. I would expect that 35 or so is what they'd expect, i.e that of most all-rounders. He's not far short.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 17 November 2005 09:56 (twenty years ago)

29 odd isn't it?

Jack Russell averaged 27, sigh. Maybe we can clone him?

Okay, I'll stop banging on about Jones. Of course, if he spills a couple of dollies in the next one I reserve the right to start up again :)

― Matt (Matt), Thursday, 17 November 2005 10:58 (twenty years ago)

2nd test: vaughan back and bell instead of collingwood who also gets a wkt!

Afridi blasts his way to a 64 not out as bad light stops play at 296-4. ouch!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 20 November 2005 11:44 (twenty years ago)

All out 462. Which is a pretty good effort by England I think. The surprise ticket of this tour has to be Harmison, the poor tourist who'd be neutered on these pitches has so far taken nine wickets at 19.33 each. However we need a massive first innings total, bat last on this track and it'll be Multan all over again.

(Okay, and well done Geraint Jones, who took a blinder to dismiss Akmal. Shame he dropped Yousuf on thirty odd yesterday. Then again, Vaughan and Strauss both dropped easier in this innings. Heigh ho).

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 21 November 2005 07:57 (twenty years ago)

Holy shit, explosion at the ground!

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 21 November 2005 10:30 (twenty years ago)

Ah, looks like an electrical problem.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 21 November 2005 10:31 (twenty years ago)

what's happening Matt?

― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 21 November 2005 10:41 (twenty years ago)

A gas canister in a pepsi machine exploded, so there was a huge bang and a big plume of escaping gas. Given the tense security atmosphere surrounding the tests it's understandable that everyone was a little freaked out, but it's smiles all round now.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 21 November 2005 10:45 (twenty years ago)

The other surprise has to be Ian Bell. Injuries saved him from being dropped and he responds by scoring some runs and, yesterday, a wicket.

another wkt just gone - 107-3.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 21 November 2005 11:01 (twenty years ago)

And off for light. Picky picky Darrell hair, though I'm not complaining.

If Bell can stick around tomorrow this game is still winnable, if he doesn't I fear it's not.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 21 November 2005 11:16 (twenty years ago)

A good deal better this morning it seemed from the bulletin. Much more measured play. Hopwfully Freddy can get a god innings this time. Bell's numbers show a nice measured defensive seesion. If they can keep it up through the new ball we might be in an alright position.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 08:35 (twenty years ago)

I should keep my mouth shut.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 08:41 (twenty years ago)

How many catches have Pakistan dropped now?

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 08:44 (twenty years ago)

Bell 108. Well done.

― Dr.C, Tuesday, 22 November 2005 09:32 (twenty years ago)

'tis lovely to listen to the cricket from Pakistan with the muezzins calling the faithful to prayer in the background. Geraint Jones doing the business so far!

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (and His Endless Stupid Jokes) (Dada), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 10:58 (twenty years ago)

I'm really pleased for Jones, Bell and Pietersen. Pakistan did drop abt 3 catches, I think, but Eng made them pay.

This is looking like a draw but hopefully Harminson will weave some of his magic (w/plaenty of aggression) as he did in the windies a cpl of years ago and bowl us to victory.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 12:50 (twenty years ago)

That was a good effort from Jones. Much more like it.

I dunno, the eternal optimist in me says this is there for the winning, but runs are so hard to come by the draw seems likelier. Seeing as how England need to go for the win I'd be happy to see a first innings deficit so long as the tail throw the bat a bit and get on with it. I've a feeling the bowlers will get Pakistan cheapish next time, it's the old fourth day magic.

― Matt (Matt), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 12:55 (twenty years ago)

Hey look - Pakistan 167/5!! This is winnable for us if we can get them out for less than about 250. Cheating git Afridi out first ball to Flintoff!!

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 11:18 (twenty years ago)

183/6 at stumps. Definitely a chance.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 11:46 (twenty years ago)

Ruddy cheats! (Apparently)

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 11:59 (twenty years ago)

I liked this from the BBC website:

0957 Yousuf and Inzamam up the tempo by picking off the occasional
single off Flintoff. Inzamam's looking surprisingly nimble between the
wickets...for now!

I enjoyed Shoaib Akhtar's chicken impression.

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 17:43 (twenty years ago)

107/5 at tea

― Dr.C, Thursday, 24 November 2005 10:04 (twenty years ago)

Flintoff gone. we're doooomed.

― Pete W (peterw), Thursday, 24 November 2005 10:52 (twenty years ago)

164/6.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 24 November 2005 11:38 (twenty years ago)

its a draw.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 24 November 2005 11:39 (twenty years ago)

Blimey. Plucky effort from Jones the Bat, I take it all back.

What was Bell thinking?

On this form, it's a shame Vaughany's knee improved. A bit of Collingwood grit might have come in handy there. Ah well, off to lahore for ~~a draw on a nightmarish flat track~~ a euphoric series levelling victory with Vaughan ~~playing over the top of a straight one for three~~ scoring a cathartic ton.

― Matt (Matt), Thursday, 24 November 2005 13:07 (twenty years ago)

Is Strauss going back home? That wd mean Collingwood in with Vaughan opening?

I don't think they're moving starting times for the final test, so the light might be even more of a problem. But hopefully vaughan can win the toss...

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 24 November 2005 13:10 (twenty years ago)

Yep, Strauss has gone home.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 24 November 2005 17:13 (twenty years ago)

Oh for fuck's sake Freddie, how many times has he got out to a false shot now? 201-5. Batting first England really ought to be making a better fist of things than this. Another sterling display required from Jones here.

― Matt (Matt), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 10:31 (twenty years ago)

Shame on Vaughan to throw away his wkt after doing so well.

Collingwood is doing well so far - he's on 43 not out.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 10:33 (twenty years ago)

Got his fifty.

It is annoying how often the batsmen throw their wickets away.

― Matt (Matt), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 10:41 (twenty years ago)

Oh for fuck's sake. Jones fourth batsman to get himself out sweeping today.

― Matt (Matt), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 10:54 (twenty years ago)

Now that's just pathetic. Three wickets for Shoaib Malik? WTF?

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (and His Endless Stupid Jokes) (Dada), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 10:56 (twenty years ago)

Collingwood is on 59 - hopefully someone will stay w/him for a while, (if he doesn't get out sweeping first)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 10:59 (twenty years ago)

England seem to be addicted to sweeping, which is odd, as the ball's hardly turning at all. This phobia they have about driving the spinners has cost them dear (though it took a good catch to get rid of Treco, and Pietersen's wicket was a strangle). Whatever happened to building an innings?

― Matt (Matt), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 10:59 (twenty years ago)

Big century from Collingwood and maiden fifties for the entire tail and we're up to a par score on this pitch. Heigh ho.

― Matt (Matt), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 11:00 (twenty years ago)

Plunkett any good with the bat?

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (and His Endless Stupid Jokes) (Dada), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 11:03 (twenty years ago)

First class average of 21, so pretty handy

― Matt (Matt), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 11:06 (twenty years ago)

248-6 at the close w/ Collingwood on 71 not out. Only 77 overs bowled today

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 11:41 (twenty years ago)

I hope he goes on to his hundred, the Geordies are taking over!

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (and His Endless Stupid Jokes) (Dada), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 11:42 (twenty years ago)

I think they were unlucky with the sweep. It's usually a relatively risk-free shot apart from the odd top-edge and you can reduce the chance of lbw to virtually nil by picking the right line i.e on or outside middle/leg. Was Malik bowling over the wicket or round?

I think we can get 350, but we'll need to bowl well.

― Dr.C, Tuesday, 29 November 2005 11:51 (twenty years ago)

Over mostly, I think. Collingwood played him best by using his feet and driving - no demons in the pitch so virtually without risk. England seems to be favouring shots to leg when there were singles galore on. I don't normally have a problem with the sweep, but they were playing it indiscriminately when coming down the track was probably a safer option (though calling Jones's attempted smear a sweep is probably stretching the point a little - horrible shot). I agree that 350 is gettable, but I'd argue that it's a minimum really. 420+ looks a par score, the tail will have to bat out of their skins.

― Matt (Matt), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 14:15 (twenty years ago)

England 288 a.o. Pakistan 12-2 in rpely. Blimey. I'd have thought 288 was nowhere near enough, but two quick wickets from Hoggy and it's wide open again.

― Matt (Matt), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 07:27 (twenty years ago)

68/3

What's the pitch like?

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 08:55 (twenty years ago)

Test match special reckoned it was pretty flat and lifeless, although Harmison was getting some bounce.

― Dr.C, Wednesday, 30 November 2005 09:06 (twenty years ago)

:-(

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 1 December 2005 12:53 (twenty years ago)

Pakistan's first innings puting a bit of perspective on England's lamentable first innings total - as David St. Hubbins said when Spinal Tap visited Elvis' grave, "Bit too much fucking perspective".

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (and His Endless Stupid Jokes) (Dada), Thursday, 1 December 2005 12:57 (twenty years ago)

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