Coming Out

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
This may seem like a really tasteless joke question, but it isn't, so: Has anyone ever had a gay friend of theirs (who's had several partners in the time you've known them) suddenly 'come out' as straight? I ask as this happened to me not two hours ago, and I'm feeling pretty confused.

DG, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I've heard of this happening once to a friend of my wife's whom I never met. It was kind of tragic because his family had disowned him for being gay before he ever had a physical relationship with a man. After the first time he did the deed, he was like, "Oh, this is REALLY not my bag after all!" and tried to re-establish ties with his family. They no longer wanted anything to do with him because he had thought he was gay.

Really horribly tragic, actually.

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

The only person I have really known to pull a stunt like this (outside the typical "Dyke Until Graduation" college type) was the infamous Susan that Susan Is A Lesbian Now was written about.

But considering what a fuss and commotion she made about coming out as being "gay" she made, we really weren't that surprised when less than a year later she made a huge palaver about coming out as being "straight" again.

I don't know what to tell you. I don't think sexuality is as clear- cut and defined as most people like to believe it is.

masonic boom, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

It's not that I need advice or anything, more I'd like to know if this has happened to anyone else, so I can be reasonably sure it isn't some cosmic plot by the powers-that-be in the universe to confuse the hell out of me.

DG, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I don't think "Dyke Until Graduation" is very sensitive to people struggling with sexuality issues, masonic boom.

-- Mike Hanley, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Didn't the same thing happen to Tom Robinson?

Michael, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Since when was this board about sensitivity? ;-)

No, actually I think it's a testament to the fact that *so many* people struggle with their sexuality through late adolescence. This is a very unpopular idea in the States, with their straitjacketed notions of sexuality. It is perfectly normal in adolescence to go through a period of sexual and/or gender confusion, and experiment with all parts of sexuality. The whole American idea that you have to *label* yourself as "gay" or "straight" or "bisexual" before you've even had a chance to discover what you are, I find vaguely repugnant. People making such a big fuss over something which hasn't even entirely gelled yet.

It's the pidgeonholing that hurts people, not the actual sexuality of it. Hence why I find the term so descriptive.

masonic boom, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

It's not so much that it hasn't gelled yet, as that it can gel and then liqueify again without warning. Sexuality can wander all over the shop. I've known confirmed lesbians suddenly fall in love with men, and straight men of countless years standing who discover they actually want to fuck other men. Hell, even my own identification as bisexual could be interpreted a flag of convenience to save having to re-describe my sexuality on a tri-monthly basis. This isn't to say that most people aren't confirmed in their sexuality, or that anything's wrong with knowing where you're at. Just that people sometimes do change, and it's not necessarily anything special.

Richard Tunnicliffe, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

i am in agreement with richard and masonic boom here. categorisations can be restrictive and never tell the full story of a persons sexuality. however, i do sympathise with people who feel the need to label themselves as "gay", "bi", "dyke" or whatever, as when one is struggling with being queer in a homophobic society, it can be quite self-affirming to have an identity category to belong to. knowwhatimean?

lady die, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I like what Sandra Bernhardt says, "I'm people sexual". That's all about me, you know? What's the big difference between everyone that we need to make such a big issue about male versus female?

Ally, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I'm a post-sexual identity person myself. I've swung from guys onlt to girls only to combos, and in the end, it isn't what's between their legs that count - it's in the head and the heart.

Geoff, Wednesday, 13 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Love that Sandra Bernhardt quote - reminds me of Gore Vidal's comment (which I think he got from Alfred Kinsey) that "There's no such thing as hetrosexuals or homosexuals, only hetrosexual acts and homosexual acts."

Andrew L, Wednesday, 13 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Always been a bit iffy about the Gore Vidal quote being tossed around too liberally - I'm happy for people to choose not to identify themselves by their sexuality, but there's also a helluva lot of people who do, and while Vidal's quote undoubtedly worked for him it doesn't necessarily apply to all cases. I especially know a lot of lesbians who would consider the "act" as being the least part of sexual identity.

Tim, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

... Although obviously the Kinsey report was instrumental in exposing a lot of unaired truths about sexuality, particularly re: straight men who sex with men. The theory's fine, it's just the occasionally the overzealous application of it that I'm of two minds about (see also: Marilyn Fry and Sheila Jeffries going on about gay men being the number one perpetrators of sexism).

Tim, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Which is exactly why it's a headfuck when those very people flip the script. Example: girl at university who part of every LesGayBi group going, had a thing about shitty singer-songerwriter type music, had never slept with a bloke, and accused her department of homophobia when they gave a mediocre grade for her thesis about lesbian S&M. She was as far from a play-dyke as you could get. And then she fell in love with her (male) alternative therapist, and it's been blokes all the way...

Mark Morris, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

A good friend from college is currently arranging music for his sister's wedding (to a man). Said sister identifies herself as a lesbian. The guy she's marrying identifies himself as straight.

Dan Perry, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

That ROCKS!! "Identification" is so cool, because you can say what you LIKE, and no one can challenge it!!

mark s, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Sigh. I know a couple back in upstate NY, female lesbian who married a gay male. And yes, it was a real, carnal (I didn't want to know that, actually, but they got drunk and informed me of it), proper marriage. Yet still the girl identifies herself as a lesbian, and the guy as gay. I suspect it is because they were both so strongly involved in the gay & lesbian community that they feared that they would lose not just their identity but their social group if they were to change their self-labels. I still don't understand it. Why bother putting the label on in the first place? To define oneself solely by one facet of personality, whether that be sexual orientation, or political leaning, or music subculture... it just seems so... silly. So confining and narrow-minded. A person is so much more than a conglomeration of labels. Why do that to yourself?

masonic boom, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Shared sense of community, maybe? Support networks? I think sometimes people in their adolescence feel so absolutely cut off from their peers due to their sexuality that when they do come out it seems impossible for them to network on any other level but their sexuality.

Honestly though from my immersion within the gay/lesbian presence on campus last year I'd say it's really no different to clubs of Star Trek fans or football teams or junior political parties or ILM. Each one has a cause, a shared set of interests and one thing they can talk about endlessly.

There's a 'queer' theorist whose name escapes me now who defines herself as a lesbian for the very purpose of fetishising the s/m sexual experiences she has with gay men - this is obviously incredibly cool. OTOH I for one am perfectly happy defining myself as gay for pretty much the same reasons that I am happy to define myself as male (ie. I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary so far on either score), only not to the exclusion of everything else in my life.

Tim, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Tim: Pat Califia?

Tho she IS a man now, surgically — a fact that made me a little sad when I discovered it, I don't quite know why.

One of the things is that some of these definitions really mean completely different things depending on who you say them to. I'm totally comfortable being out bi in the office because it's a kind of what-the-fuck label: it actually gives nothing away. But being out bi HERE makes me think of what Arthur called "bi-curious indieboys", a slightly rubbish cliche which is more a prison than a weapon.

And when I came out to my mum, she said, "Oh, everyone's bisexual," in an irritable way and turned the conversation back to herself. (Which conversation has once or twice included sharing with the entire family at breakfast the lesbian dream she had the night before...)

mark s, Thursday, 14 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

The problem with the watm and fuzzy polysexaul thign is that it ignores the societal pressure and violence inhernet in a lot of queers life. Now alot of people may be polymorphic in their sexual presentation espically in adolsecnet. However alot of gay and lesbian people in small towns have gone through fire to live their culture , we should not forget this

BTW Ally , Straight Men go to queer bars to pick up Straight woman because it is safer , you are not a sex god you may however be spoiled self indulgent and rich, i have not decided.

jack, Sunday, 17 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Whatever you do, don't come out on Messenger or any other insta-mail. So far I've had two friends launch into huge confessionals when I'm trying check e-mail, download and keep dinner on the go.

K-reg, Sunday, 17 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Jack: you may be a pompous self- absorbed manipulative bully. I have not decided.

mark s, Sunday, 17 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

it irritates me, sometimes, when people of one of the many polarities o bisexuality can't relate to another person's monosexuality.

matthew james, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Did like a post of mine get deleted on this thread or something? WTF is that jack talking about anyhow? Anyhow, you say those things like they're bad, like they're not what the lot of you all aspire to.

I personally have a great big issue with people who have a problem with anyone's personal choice, be it slamming gays, straights, or bis. What the fuck does anyone care who I'm fucking?

Ally, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

And how come no matter the fact that I put the end tag twice, this is still in bold? For christ's sake.

Ally, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

There wasmore thanoneboldtag. This should take care of it.

Josh, Wednesday, 27 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

eleven years pass...

Apropos the OP, I just started a grad school program where I plan to work under someone who is very invested in queer theory and art, which I'm also legitimately quite interested in. Through a kind of inverse logic of gay-by-assumption, though, I'm pretty certain he (as apparently sections of my classmates did) thinks I'm gay. Obviously this is, at worst, a parodic non-problem (especially compared to actually coming out, etc.) but I mean I'm planning to work with this person for the next 6 or so years, I should probably disclose my straightness, no? I mean, it's nice not having to worry about being disowned or whatever, but I feel like minimizing awkwardness is going to require tact.

formerly EDB (ed.b), Saturday, 27 October 2012 16:14 (twelve years ago) link

come on just admit it, u r gay

Online Webinar Event for Dads (harbl), Saturday, 27 October 2012 16:47 (twelve years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.