When did they stop making English-language films in which all the characters are "actually" speaking another language?

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Specifically, films set more or less in the present, so excluding historical epics and such.

In the half hour or so that I've been thinking about this, the latest one I could come up with is "Irma La Douce" (1963). Any other suggestions? Am I missing something obvious? Do they ever still do this today?

― Chinchilla Volapük (Captain Sleep), Sunday, 20 November 2005 08:09 (twenty years ago)

memoirs of a geisha is english-language.

― mimi in st. louis (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 20 November 2005 08:20 (twenty years ago)

how "more or less in the present" are we talking?

― mimi in st. louis (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 20 November 2005 08:20 (twenty years ago)

The Hunt for Red October starts with the Russian characters speaking Russian with subtitles, and then after a few minutes morphs into them just speaking English. It's like, "OK, here's what it would sound like if they were speaking Russian, so now try to keep that in the back of your mind while they're speaking English."

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Sunday, 20 November 2005 08:26 (twenty years ago)

That happens in Battlefeild Earth too. Have you guys ever seen Fury of the WOlfman?

― Mike Hanle y 3000 (hanle y 3000), Sunday, 20 November 2005 08:37 (twenty years ago)

how "more or less in the present" are we talking?

Well, I started thinking about this while watching "Crossroads" (1942) which is set in 1935 Paris... All of the characters are French, but there is no French at all in the film (except for words like "madame" and "monsieur" etc.) This is the sort of thing I'm thinking about.

I guess the broader question is whether there was some kind of breaking point where this practice was no longer considered believable? Even "Irma La Douce" might be stretching it, because although the film is not a musical itself, it is adapted from one and retains a musical-theatre style that doesn't exactly strive for realism.

However, also interested in more examples like the two given so far; whatever earlier examples people can think of; the role of affected accents in all this; any examples going the other way - non-English films that do something similar (if any, I can't think of an example right now)...

― Chinchilla Volapük (Captain Sleep), Sunday, 20 November 2005 08:53 (twenty years ago)

passion of the christ to thread? or is that not the idea here

― nervous (cochere), Sunday, 20 November 2005 08:54 (twenty years ago)

I think he means the people in the movie are speaking for example English, but its overdubbed anyways in English.

― Mike Hanle y 3000 (hanle y 3000), Sunday, 20 November 2005 09:16 (twenty years ago)

Also, even if you had got the language thing re passion of the christ, I think you'd be hard pushed to make a case for it being more or less in the present day and/or not an historical epic.

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 20 November 2005 09:37 (twenty years ago)

I used to find it irritating if characters who were supposed to be speaking another language spoke English but now I don't mind it. I think both doing that and having subtitles serve different cinematic purposes. Having a movie where one group of people speak English and another speak with subtitles implies that there's meant to be a greater distance between the second group and the audience - often because they're the "bad guys".

I guess if you have a whole movie in subtitles, though, eventually you just forget you're reading subtitles and you get as close to the characters as you would otherwise -- it only seems to have an effect when you switch from one to the other.

― Abbadabba Berman (Hurting), Sunday, 20 November 2005 22:47 (twenty years ago)

Enemy at the Gates has a bunch of British-accented Soviets but I can't remember if they start off speaking in Russian/German to begin with.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Sunday, 20 November 2005 23:31 (twenty years ago)

smilla's sense of snow! gorky park! schindler's list!

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 20 November 2005 23:39 (twenty years ago)

yeah smilla shd totally be in greenlandic

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 20 November 2005 23:42 (twenty years ago)

also not star that northern exposure lady

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 20 November 2005 23:42 (twenty years ago)

or GABRIEL BYRNE the WORLD'S WORST ACTOR

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 20 November 2005 23:43 (twenty years ago)

they never stopped! this still happens all the time!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 21 November 2005 00:15 (twenty years ago)

star wars!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 21 November 2005 00:16 (twenty years ago)

Greedo had subtitles.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 21 November 2005 00:17 (twenty years ago)

"Smilla's Sense of Snow" is a perfect example - any more "pure" instances like this?

"Gorky Park" less so because of the prominence of actual English-speaking characters.

I thought "Chocolat" for a moment, but then looked it up and discovered it takes place c. 1960 (I had never seen it).

― Chinchilla Volapük (Captain Sleep), Monday, 21 November 2005 03:24 (twenty years ago)

come on, chocolat counts, it's not a historical epic!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 21 November 2005 04:16 (twenty years ago)

Moulin Rouge? The Pianist?

― Roz (Roz), Monday, 21 November 2005 05:32 (twenty years ago)

Ok so not really "in the present" but close enough!

― Roz (Roz), Monday, 21 November 2005 05:34 (twenty years ago)

I like stuff like Hunt for Red October, where the english-speaking actors have accents in relation to the language they're supposed to be speaking.

also, why did Red October have all british/aussie/scottish actors as the russians?(tim curry, sam neill, connery, etc) It's like Star Wars-casting; members of the evil empire always have british accents.

― kingfish hobo juckie (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 21 November 2005 05:49 (twenty years ago)

To us Americans the British accent sounds evil. I think its something left over from US revolutionary times.

― A Nairn (moretap), Monday, 21 November 2005 06:32 (twenty years ago)

Battlefield Earth!

― 'Twan (miccio), Monday, 21 November 2005 06:33 (twenty years ago)

x-post
or hollywoods preoccupation with casting british people as baddies/evil geniuses etc

― zappi (joni), Monday, 21 November 2005 06:35 (twenty years ago)

Red October was the first thing that I thought of as well.

I remember watching some WWII movie that was made in the eighties. One of the Jewish characters said (in English), "I can't move to America, I don't even know the language!" My dad and I joked, "He sounds to me like he's got it down pretty good..."

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Monday, 21 November 2005 07:15 (twenty years ago)

Meryl Streep .... Clara del Valle Trueba
Glenn Close .... Férula Trueba
Jeremy Irons .... Esteban Trueba
Winona Ryder .... Blanca Trueba
Antonio Banderas .... Pedro Tercero García
Vanessa Redgrave .... Nívea del Valle
Maria Conchita Alonso .... Tránsito Soto
Armin Mueller-Stahl .... Severo del Valle
Jan Niklas .... Count Jean de Satigny
Sarita Choudhury .... Pancha García
Antonio Assumicio .... Man at Cattlemarket
Julie Balloo .... Young Lady
Frank Baker .... Intelligence Officer
João Cabral .... Soldier
Miguel Guilherme .... Soldier

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 21 November 2005 12:01 (twenty years ago)

Does this happen much in reverse? Are there French movies set in present-day London or New York with everyone speaking French? I can't think of any.

― jz, Monday, 21 November 2005 12:03 (twenty years ago)

in enemy of the gates the extras shout things in russian occasionally. dont think jude did at all though

this might sound silly but i thought matt damon had a pretty good crack at it in the bourne supremacy, or whatever the sequel was called.

― ambrose (ambrose), Monday, 21 November 2005 12:15 (twenty years ago)

Like Kingfish said, this is funniest when the actors speaking English still apply a, say, French accent and insert some well-known French words (mon amour, petit, etc.) into their speech, even though we're supposed to be hearing a imaginary translation of what they're actually speaking, so there's no reason for it sound "French".

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 21 November 2005 12:28 (twenty years ago)

They do seem to do this much less frequently than they used to. But I'm not sure it's because it's a device you can no longer "believe" in; I think it's more that Hollywood is simply no longer interested in making movies set in foreign lands where the principals are also foreign and there are no Americans in them. In the vast majority of movies set somewhere foreign, we still tend to be seeing everything through the eyes of an American lead, in which case having everyone else speaking English among themselves then really does become "unbelievable". Not so if there are no Americans around to compare to. A movie like the Garbo vehicle Ninotchka, where the Melvyn Douglas character we're supposed to identify with is actually French, is unthinkable now.

― Joe Dassin, Monday, 21 November 2005 13:15 (twenty years ago)

Does this happen much in reverse? Are there French movies set in present-day London or New York with everyone speaking French? I can't think of any.

There's a new Chinese movie that I just saw a preview of. It looks something like Phantom of the Opera set in 19th century England, but all the actors are Chinese and speaking in Chinese.

― A Nairn (moretap), Monday, 21 November 2005 13:33 (twenty years ago)

The Brothers Grimm does this to a ridiculous effect. All the German characters have British accents (including Matt Damnos and Heaths Ledgers) though the country bumpkins have regional British accents (North easty - though very variable and strange). Jonathon Pryce and Peter Stormaire on the the other hand have the campest French accents in the WORLD. Monica Bellushi is just pleases that she is the pretty one in the family.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 21 November 2005 13:40 (twenty years ago)

From a Spaniard´s point of view, nothing as hilarious as some 50s films mainly starred by Ava Gardner taking place in Spain i.e. "Barefoot comtessa", " Pandora and the Flying Dutchman" that I actually love, but couldn´t be more surreal in this sense if they actually tried.

― olenska (olenska), Monday, 21 November 2005 14:47 (twenty years ago)

Star Wars is a "historical epic" - it took place long, long ago!

― The Yellow Kid, Tuesday, 22 November 2005 07:42 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

In my memory, Paul Verhoeven's Black Book was done this way but they are all actually speaking Dutch (or German).

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 22 November 2007 00:33 (eighteen years ago)

"Van der Valk" tv show

― Crêpe, Thursday, 22 November 2007 01:14 (eighteen years ago)

Herzog has spanish conquistodors in south america, irishmen in the same place, portugese brazillians in africa and ghanians all speaking german.

― jed_, Thursday, 22 November 2007 02:03 (eighteen years ago)

Tom Cruise as a nazi rebel to thread.

― Oilyrags, Thursday, 22 November 2007 03:09 (eighteen years ago)

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