Bird owners: do birds have emotions?

IMO, the first thing to understand about animal emotions is that they are not the same as human emotions, for the very simple reason that animals are not humans. Emotions may have simple names, like fear, anger or love, but they are complex physiological states. Human emotions require a human body because they exist right inside our cells. Similarly, a dog's fear would feel physically different from a snake's fear, even though the general purpose is the same.

Just because we humans have very, very complex and subtle brains, our emotions tend to acquire secondary or tertiary complexities that don't exist for other animals. But animals do often have near analogs to human emotions and they are near enough to be recognizable for what they are: fear, anger, shame, remorse, etc.

The second thing to understand is that some form of emotions exist in practically every animal, calibrated to that animal's needs and abilities. Once an animal evolves a memory, it simultaneously acquires some level of anticipation (if memory were always purely retrospective, it would be pointless). Once a creature can remember and anticipate, it can learn. Once it can learn, emotions can evolve to assist learning through positive and negative reinforcement - good and bad feelings.

Take, for example, the emotion of pride in one's accomplishment. We have all felt it. It can range from a low-keyed satisfaction to sheer elation. But when you analyze it in terms of its evolutionary purpose, taking pride in accomplishment is designed to aid learning by reinforcing memory and coupling a desirable outcome with a pleasant feeling, so that in the future we will recall the feeling and seek a similar outcome.

Any animal endowed with a memory, that is capable of learning by positive reinforcement, is going to have a variety of similar mechanisms. In its most rudimentary form, the positive reinforcement is going to take the form of a relatively basic physical stimulus, like eating - which leads to a cessation of hunger pains and perhaps some pleasant sensations of taste.

As humans, we view pride in accomplishment as one of the "higher" emotions. It requires, at a minimum, the ability to form a simple plan with a foreseen goal, act on it, and evaluate the success of those actions. Worms, for example, don't appear capable of this level of foresight. Therefore, I wouldn't expect a worm to

However, some of the more intelligent birds probably are capable of forming simple plans with simple goals. Ravens have been observed poking ventilation holes in their nests on a hot day. I personally have seen a raven flying barrel rolls.

Crows in experimental situations have taught themselves tool use to acquire food. When placed in a cage with visible food that can't be directly acquired, crows have not only picked up a piece of wire in their beaks, they have bent the wire to form a hook, which was a necessary step to make it into a tool to snag the food! This is spontaneous, complex planning and learning behavior.

It doesn't seem far-fetched to me that a raven or crow could feel some rudimentary level of pride in accomplishment, to assist it in learning such complex behaviors. We just don't have a clue what it would subjectively feel like to a raven, aside from analogizing from how we feel when we master a new skill - which is, not to put too fine a point on it, good.

But because humans are mammals, almost everything you read about the evolution of emotions is about the difference between reptiles and mammals. Birds scarcely get mentioned.

(I know it was a weird question.)

Bird owners: why do you own birds?

I ask because I am looking after a friend's budgies while he is away and ALL THEY FUCKING DO IS SQUAWK.

Looking at the birds in the tiny, plexiglass-fronted enclosures at the pet store where I buy cat food leads me to believe they have emotions. Maybe I'm just reading something in to behavioral traits and, to whatever extend birds have them, facial expressions, but they sure as hell look sad and disappointed to me.

these birds are pissed off.

We had a parrot when I was little. It's name was Chico and my Dad made audio tapes of himself saying "Hello, Chico!" and other short sentences and would play them on a loop whenever we left the house. Eventually Chico did say his name and with sort of a German accent which was sort of awes but that's the only cool thing he ever did. The squawking used to drive me so insane that I'd put the towel over the cage to make him gtb regardless of the time of day. Feel a bit bad about that now. One day Chico starting bleeding from his butt (I believe the technical term for this is poopy butt) and then he died. =

x-post - ANGRY BIRDS

Oh and when he died I felt worse about the fact that I didn't really care than I did about his actual death. I hated that bird.

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you're weird

Re: can birds be gay?

They arn't homosexuall. They are just very closly bonded. Birds and other animals can NOT be gay. But they can try to do the same things male and females do. If u replaced one of the males with a female they most likely will do the same things. But if you look at it at a dif. way then they might look and act gay so idk.

Actually, many birds will form same sex pair bonds when circumstances allow it.

sbd u e

http://www.gasguns.info/forum/images/smilies/ak47.gif

no you didn't

When we talk about bonding (I've certainly seen birds bonded to humans, for example) are we not implying emotion of some sort?

It's pretty much a technical term for this kind of mating arrangement, I thought.

totes did

inshallah

http://www.emotty.com/images/emoticons/756.png

hate u

There is an old Latino dude who walks around the neighborhood with a parrot on his shoulder. That parrot is nice and quiet and well-behaved. He's pretty good. Much better than Chico.

Does he have an eyepatch?

Looking at the birds in the tiny, plexiglass-fronted enclosures at the pet store where I buy cat food leads me to believe they have emotions. Maybe I'm just reading something in to behavioral traits and, to whatever extend birds have them, facial expressions, but they sure as hell look sad and disappointed to me.

― Paul McCartney and Whigs (Phil D.), Monday, April 25, 2011 1:41 PM

FREE THEM!!

hate u too e

<3

i got to see some parakeets up close on saturday and they aren't actually particularly large, nor are they as ugly as i thought

which means lj was right in that argument, for once

xx-post The bird?

(No, no he does not. He does, however, have a very snazzy hat. He's pretty sharp, this man and his bird)

they really do look emotionally limited tho

sparrows, seldom seen in london now, are quite expressive and have at least the affective range of the average traffic warden

i would give a lot more money to tramps if they had friendly tropical birds upon their person

My bird almost never squawks, but he does sing very loudly some morning when the light hits his cage in a certain way. As for the emotion question: I believe they do. Sometimes my bird wolf-whistles at me and bows his little head down to be nuzzled, other times he pecks at me and flies back to his cage. He is definitely 'happy' at times and angry at others.

Cutest: I prop an 8x10 mirror up beside his cage so that he can be with "his friend." He bops his little head and dances with his friend in the mirror frequently throughout the day, especially if I am playing music.

YUesterday I was cleaning his cage and moved the whole thing so that I could clean the table it sits on - and he started YELLING at me! It was incredible! I have never heard such decisive yelling from him before. He was PISSED OFF and flew back and landed on the table and pecked at me!

<3 u little Rigby:

<img src="https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/182078_10150110993793578_516053577_6477197_6851212_n.jpg";>

grrr, right, BBCode

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/182078_10150110993793578_516053577_6477197_6851212_n.jpg

chill ass bird

that's not chill - it is obviously attacking my girl lex!!!

e birds are great dont hate on them just cuz of that one pigeon

Cutest: I prop an 8x10 mirror up beside his cage so that he can be with "his friend." He bops his little head and dances with his friend in the mirror frequently throughout the day, especially if I am playing music.

OK, that's cute.

But that pigeon was horrible.

Also - Chico and his relentless screeching.

if ever u feel the need to exact symbolic revenge on pigeonkind, they are surprisingly delicious

I honestly wish that I had a video recorder because yesterday he was doing some sort of WALTZ! it was crazy and intricately repetitive and unbelievable. I also whistle the Mayberry theme song at him a lot and he's finally, tentatively started to whistle along but it's so cute - he gets confused and lost and starts over then tries to catch up with me if I keep going!

Worst part of birds is being attacked like E said :) No jewellery/pair of eyeglasses is safe!

I love birds and find them interesting but just don't like the idea of them flying at my head and would never want to live with one again.

they are surprisingly delicious

Squab really is quite good.

It doesn't seem far-fetched to me that a raven or crow could feel some rudimentary level of pride in accomplishment

WHAT? Seriously, do you think so?

They are damn smart for birds, ridiculously so.

But when I said "rudimentary", that is what I meant: probably no more than a pleasant feeling that accompanies the successful completion of a difficult goal. The goals of crows and ravens, while relatively complex in bird terms, are going to be pretty limited in comparison to humans. The same would apply to any feeling one could consider as analalogous to human pride.

Okay, it actually makes sense now that I think about it.

corvids are intelligent by common-or-garden bird standards but pale by comparison with birds of prey, and in any case are cowardly and choleric creatures undeserving of praise

I would agree with your estimate of crows' personalities, but I suspect you are probably not familiar with American ravens, whose personalities are far different than the run of the mill corvids and much nobler on the whole.

However, if pitted in a contest of adaptive intelligence against raptors, corvids would sweep the table, imo. Feel free to adduce evidence to the contrary.

adaptation is via necessity

nobler creatures of an altogether higher trophic level have no need to mend their ways in the manner of unctious croissantcrumb thieving suburban vagrants

that is unless american ravens are very different to english ones....