New drinking laws start tomorrow — how will you be celebrating?

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The new licencing act takes effect from midnight tonight, finally meaning the government of England and Wales will treat its citizens like adults by scrapping laws put in place in WW1 to stop binge-drinking munitions workers drunkenly blowing up their factories.

Is your local going to be open later? Is your supermarket going to start selling vodka at 3am on weekdays? Are you horrified by the whole thing and dreading a surge in Rockport-clad violence?

Talk about it here, as the thread headers always seem to say on the Guardian website.

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 06:25 (twenty years ago)

well, weirdly, i have no idea whether my local pubs/supermarkets are going to be open later - i haven't seen any signs. perhaps i'm just blind, i'd be pretty surprised if none of them are. what are the supermarkets doing generally? i imagine that pretty much every bar near us has applied to open later, but perhaps i'm just being optimistic.

― toby (tsg20), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 08:44 (twenty years ago)

also annoyingly we no longer have any 24hr supermarkets, so that won't make much difference. otoh i don't think i've come anywhere near to running out of booze in the last six years, so that's not really such a worry.

― toby (tsg20), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 08:45 (twenty years ago)

The Evening Standard is promising a complete guide to late-night boozing in today's edition.

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 08:48 (twenty years ago)

Don't you think that in the beginning there'll be some hard drinking throughout the night but then it'll just settle back to the *usual*? I doubt it'll cause many problems: look at other countries who already have these laws.

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 09:16 (twenty years ago)

Make sure that you do this right Englanders, we need the same thing across the water. Be good little case studies...

― Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 09:19 (twenty years ago)

meanwhile in scotland, chaos rules. i think we've managed to end up with a suggestion that offies stay open for two hours less per week. unless they're out-of-town, in which case they can open for 25 hours a day. or something. hellfire, i'm a hack and even i can't remember the details.

i certainly can't remember when it's all meant to actually happen here. bugger.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 12:36 (twenty years ago)

I doubt it'll cause many problems: look at other countries who already have these laws.
-- Nathalie (stevi...), November 23rd, 2005.

france, for example.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 12:47 (twenty years ago)

How much of that was due to alcohol? I got the impression much of the unrest occurred in the Muslim community, who you'd assume aren't the biggest drinkners..

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 12:51 (twenty years ago)

haha i know but it's just a bit incongruous to say "it'll be ok, other countries are okay".

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 12:52 (twenty years ago)

Given the dubious approach to legal hours that many shops and establishments have around my way, it's unlikely this will make that much of an impact on my life. It's hard for us to buy booze after, say, three or four in the morning, but that's mainly because they've gone to bed and shut up shop.

― Anna (Anna), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:09 (twenty years ago)

Yeah I've never had a problem buying booze after hours in London, most areas out of the centre have at least a couple of 24 hour shops that'll do it. Just means they won't need to put it in a black carrier bag any more! (Is that like the brown paper bag thing in America, the cops will ignore the booze if it's in a black bag?)

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:16 (twenty years ago)

i'm not planning on after 11pm drinking until next week anyway - not in this country at least.

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:23 (twenty years ago)

I doubt it'll cause many problems: look at other countries who already have these laws.
-- Nathalie (stevi...), November 23rd, 2005.
france, for example.

-- Theorry Henry (miltonpinsk...), November 23rd, 2005. (later)
How much of that was due to alcohol? I got the impression much of the unrest occurred in the Muslim community, who you'd assume aren't the biggest drinkners..
-- hobart paving (elvistear...), November 23rd, 2005. (later)

haha i know but it's just a bit incongruous to say "it'll be ok, other countries are okay".

Okay, I change my opinion thanks to your insightful retort. England will go alcoholic in 24 hours time. ;-)

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:25 (twenty years ago)

X-post

I'm surprised so many people seem to believe that the current English licensing laws are just barely keeping a lid on an explosion of drunkenness and that binge drinking will get substantially worse once the absurd curfew is removed.

As Nath says upthread, it'll likely get worse for a bit, then get back to something like normal.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:26 (twenty years ago)

britain already is alcoholic, is the point. i don't think the laws will change that, really. i can't bring myself to give a toss about this really!

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:27 (twenty years ago)

really

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:27 (twenty years ago)

And in the meantime, MPs and tabloid rags will scream blue murder about how the evil drink is destroying society.

Interesting fact: two bars that has been allowed to serve all night since 1915 are the ones in the House of Commons and House of Lords. Yet Tory MPs are objecting like mad to letting the little people have a drink after work...

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:29 (twenty years ago)

I care because once in a while I want to have a drink at half past eleven with my friends and it seems completely unneccessary for the state to make it so difficult (and / or unpleasant) for me to do so.

I mean, they are already restricting who's allowed to sell it to me, I can't see the benefit in their deciding when, too.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:30 (twenty years ago)

And in the meantime, MPs and tabloid rags will scream blue murder about how the evil drink is destroying society.

the mps... who... voted for this?

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:31 (twenty years ago)

I was thinking of the Tories and Lib-Dems who tried to get the whole thing scrapped last week.

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:32 (twenty years ago)

The Pumpkin Publog invites all readers to send in pictures of themselves at last orders tonight: http://www.freakytrigger.co.uk/pumpkin/2005_11_01_pumpkinpublog_archive.html#113259702655747770

I mean which of us has not, in our cups, heard the Last Orders bell and imagined that same loathed sound ringing out as one in alehouses across England (and I suppose Wales)? Oh. OK.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:38 (twenty years ago)

I thought the idea was to make things better, not for things to go back to normal.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:41 (twenty years ago)

Things will be better. The pubs will be open longer.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:43 (twenty years ago)

Last Orders has made me cry on more than one occasion. The economics of this will prob'ly mean not much change for those of us outside of Lahndahn, but just once I'd like to have a crack at the 24 hour pub crawl. It's every drinker's Everest, innit?

― THIS IS THE SOUND OF ALTERN 8 !!! (noodle vague), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:44 (twenty years ago)

You young 'uns.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:46 (twenty years ago)

I'm nearly 37 and I got a liver like a Kettle Chip, y' cheeky scamp.

― THIS IS THE SOUND OF ALTERN 8 !!! (noodle vague), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:48 (twenty years ago)

I meant Tim, who is well into his forties.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:59 (twenty years ago)

Unwell into my forties.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 14:00 (twenty years ago)

just once I'd like to have a crack at the 24 hour pub crawl

NV: whenever you want to do this, give me a shout. i'm with you ever step/stagger/stumble/crawl/roll/ambulance trip of the way.

mind you: for seven years now my friend ian and i have been planning on attempting every pub in argyle street, glasgow (or, at the very least, every pub from from the two ways to firebird). and we've always lost our bottle at the last minute.

NEXT YEAR, WE WILL DO IT. that's my resolution.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 14:33 (twenty years ago)

i can't afford to drink pints for more than a few hours, is maybe why this is moot for me.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 14:34 (twenty years ago)

x post

Yes. A few months of training, and long enough to work out which pubs will be open at the proper times. THE 24 HOUR SESH MUST BE BUILT!

― THIS IS THE SOUND OF ALTERN 8 !!! (noodle vague), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 14:35 (twenty years ago)

x post

One of the great things about Hull is that despite the carping of busybodies from Social Services and the NHS, booze is still hilariously cheap if you know where to go.

― THIS IS THE SOUND OF ALTERN 8 !!! (noodle vague), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 14:36 (twenty years ago)

How will these new laws affect what is being discussed on this thread:
Rape, blame, responsibility, Amnesty, etcetera.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

I'll have to buy a chastity belt?

― THIS IS THE SOUND OF ALTERN 8 !!! (noodle vague), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 15:54 (twenty years ago)

You've got to admire George Best for having the tenacity to hang on for this...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 17:39 (twenty years ago)

[chokes on pint of vodka with laughter]

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 17:58 (twenty years ago)

buying at any time doesn't seem to be much of a problem as long as there's a 24hr turkish shop. my flatmate got £150 worth of liquor at 2am a while back from our local dodgy grocer.

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 18:05 (twenty years ago)

Has anyone got a link to a list of late night pubs/bars in London?

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 22:59 (twenty years ago)

(I intend to get trashed before my shift at the munitions factory)

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Thursday, 24 November 2005 08:54 (twenty years ago)

I find it funny that people talk about how on The Continent bars stay open all night and everyone can get a drink whenever they want. My parents went to Italy on holidays this year - four days in Rome and a week in Sperlonga - and they complained hugely on their return that there was nowhere to get a drink after about 9pm. The bar in their hotel in Rome closed at 11pm and the drinks were ridiculously expensive, and there was only one bar in Sperlonga and the owner was openly amazed at the amount my parents put away. I think it could be a long time before British and Irish drinking habits fit in with those of the rest of Europe, if they ever do.

― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Thursday, 24 November 2005 09:25 (twenty years ago)

God the Evening Standard fucked me off yesterday. Plastered with a front page headline screaming BINGE DRINK GIRLS CAN'T CRY RAPE while simultaneously being all "hey, look at our extensive pullout featuring every single late night bar in London".

And they ommitted the borough of Lewisham for no apparent reason, so I can't even check up on my local pubs.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 24 November 2005 11:14 (twenty years ago)

Good thing we didn't go out after the shoot last night.

― The Damp Is Rising (kate), Thursday, 24 November 2005 11:18 (twenty years ago)

Come, to beautiful Australiarrr where the bars are plenty, the bottle shops are drive-through (!!), and we have 24 hour booze, booze delivered with pizzas, bars til 4am and everyone is drunk ALL THE TIME HOORAY!

And we havent gone nuts yet.

Except that thing with the koala tacos. But, you know. That was all Ned's fault.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 24 November 2005 11:19 (twenty years ago)

Pah, we already get booze delivered with pizzas and as mentioned above (illegal) 24 hour booze shops are plentiful within London!

This is all happening a couple of years too late for me really, I don't go out late often these days cos my friends are too spread out across the city and have trouble getting back after the tubes finish.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 24 November 2005 11:25 (twenty years ago)

To be honest there are v few 24 hour bottle-os here, in fact the only one i know of luckily is near me. Across from a very brit-laden backpackers,. hahaha.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 24 November 2005 11:27 (twenty years ago)

"And they ommitted the borough of Lewisham for no apparent reason, so I can't even check up on my local pubs. "

They missed Waltham Forest, too, and about half a dozen other boroughs. There's a little disclaimer hidden away somewhere that says not all councils replied when asked which pubs would be opening late.

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Thursday, 24 November 2005 11:28 (twenty years ago)

They only enforce this early closing time and ridiculous prices on English people to deter them from binge drinking. ;-)

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 24 November 2005 11:28 (twenty years ago)

Rockport-clad violence

rolls eyes

― sfxxx, Thursday, 24 November 2005 11:41 (twenty years ago)

Are you sure they didn't get it mixed up? In Italy no-one even thinks of going out till like 10.30pm, so maybe the bars just hadn't opened yet?

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 24 November 2005 11:45 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 19 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

"what is the difference between a tracker and a fixed-rate mortgage?"

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 24 November 2005 15:32 (twenty years ago)

BWAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!!!

It's funny because it's true, Chew.

― -Stroke-Model (kate), Thursday, 24 November 2005 15:35 (twenty years ago)

Or indeed, variable rates. How about an offset mortgage? Or maybe the interest-only?

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

Stop it, you're killing me! (Come on, I do this for a living. Next you'll be talking about capped rates and endowment policies.)

― -Stroke-Model (kate), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:24 (twenty years ago)

I don't understand those things either. And now, what with the constant drinking and all, I never will.

― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:25 (twenty years ago)

cigarette machines, people.

Uh, they are always located in pubs here.

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:29 (twenty years ago)

The parents in Rome should have gone to Standa, where they could purchase a 1L carton of wine for a euro. Then they could sit on the Spanish Steps swigging until the carabs move them along. Not, like, talking from experience or anything :)

― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:35 (twenty years ago)

Kate, what are the disadvantages with offset mortgages?

xpost - hahahaha, you too, madders? ;)

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:35 (twenty years ago)

Talk to my financial advisor coz the hand ain't listenin'!

― -Stroke-Model (kate), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

Beer vending machgines on the sea front in Spainw hen i was last there. I also love getting the 2 litre cans of Asahi out of the machines in Tokyo. They make a hell of a clang.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:41 (twenty years ago)

this won't make a jot of difference to me unless they extend night trains to later hours from manchester to warrington

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

Beer vending inside buildings in Germany, and also loads of cigarette vending machines on the streets,

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:43 (twenty years ago)

But Ste, don't you see you can now stay out until the first trains start?

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:44 (twenty years ago)

how do they stop kids getting the beer and fags?

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

thats true!

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:47 (twenty years ago)

Er, they don't stop the kids getting beer and fags. It is not seen as the role of the state to phrohibit the consumption of beer or fags for young people, rathe rthe role of the parents or in lococ guardian. The duty of care lies with the care-giver.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:51 (twenty years ago)

but all kids are bad

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:53 (twenty years ago)

family pubs have cigarette machines.

― g-spot (g-kit), Thursday, 24 November 2005 16:55 (twenty years ago)

And the "straight scene"

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 24 November 2005 17:01 (twenty years ago)

sorry, the "stray scene"

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 24 November 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

Is under-age drinking and smoking not a big problem in places where you can get beer from a vending machine outside of a place like a bar? And if not, why not?

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Thursday, 24 November 2005 17:08 (twenty years ago)

In Italy there didn't seem to be any law about how old you had to be to drink, but nobody really drank much anyway.

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Thursday, 24 November 2005 17:14 (twenty years ago)

Well I always had this bouze vending machine in my house that I called my parents drinks cabinet. I think the suggestion is that parents should notice underage drinking and recognise when it is bad.

Clearly in plenty of places kids drinking a glass of wine with a meal is not a problem at all.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 24 November 2005 17:14 (twenty years ago)

People shouldn't be going out, meeting other people and enjoying themselves. They should be staying at home, watching detergent commercials.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 24 November 2005 17:15 (twenty years ago)

Maybe the stigma of alcohol culture really is too much in the UK then...in that the idea of vending machines on the street just seems absurd here.

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Thursday, 24 November 2005 17:20 (twenty years ago)

There seems to be a lot more trust in other countries. We don't have beer/cigarette vending machines in the street, because obviously loads of kids would buy them. They have newspaper vending machines in some countries where you pay your money, open it up, and just take one paper from the pile - obviously here someone would just steal all of them. In many countries you don't pay the bus driver on your way on to the bus: you have a ticket which you buy from a bar / tabacconist / newsagent type place and which you 'validate' by stamping it in a machine - there's about a one in a thousand chance that an inspector will get on your bus and check your ticket has been validated. Obviously if they did that in London no one would ever pay to travel by bus. In some countries you can stay in a bar all evening (or rather, all night) and have drink after drink without paying, then you just settle your bill when you leave - sometimes they even ask you what you had. Can you imagine that in Britain? No one would pay, everyone would just run out of the pub at closing time.

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Thursday, 24 November 2005 17:31 (twenty years ago)

Interesting, but also true Teh Hobb. So why is there a difference here?

― dog latin (dog latin), Thursday, 24 November 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)

Maybe is it precisely because we have all these boundaries that people need to break them? I honestly believe the reason Britain has such a horrible drinking culture is because the bars close very early so people have to wolf down their drinks in order to get drunk and so it becomes a vicious circle. Therefore there's a certain bravado when drinking - i.e. seeing how much you can drink the fastest, and it's just pure gluttony. Imagine if people did this with food?!

― dog latin (dog latin), Thursday, 24 November 2005 17:45 (twenty years ago)

I don't know. I think there's a different mentality full stop in this country, a kind of random evil. We're a country of smashed up bus shelters.

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Thursday, 24 November 2005 17:48 (twenty years ago)

Argh!

Just saw this on The Culture Show last night. Now this is something I didn't know, but apparently the new lisencing laws have got rid of the Two Men In A Bar Rule. Which is freaking rubbish for any musicians around here. Bah.

Oh yeah, and banning Punch and Judy which even Cromwell didn't try!

― -Stroke-Model (kate), Friday, 25 November 2005 08:52 (twenty years ago)

In many countries you don't pay the bus driver on your way on to the bus: you have a ticket which you buy from a bar / tabacconist / newsagent type place and which you 'validate' by stamping it in a machine - there's about a one in a thousand chance that an inspector will get on your bus and check your ticket has been validated. Obviously if they did that in London no one would ever pay to travel by bus.

err, bendy buses anyone?

― toby (tsg20), Friday, 25 November 2005 10:58 (twenty years ago)

They had to start getting conductors to come and check bendy bus passengers because no one ever pays for them.

― Sophisticated Boom Boom (kate), Friday, 25 November 2005 11:00 (twenty years ago)

My girlfriend was on the 12 - bendy bus, when an inspector got on (first time she'd ever seen this) - AND EVERY PERSON HAD PAID, NOT ONE PERSON GOT DONE FOR FARE DODGING!

maybe the cynicism towards the british public is misplaced.
(I do not believe this mind, I think it was an amazing fluke)

― bidfurd__, Friday, 25 November 2005 11:32 (twenty years ago)

It's 'cos they were all tourists or foreign students, innit.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Friday, 25 November 2005 11:39 (twenty years ago)

(Punch and Judy has not been banned but, just like the music circus, they will have to get a license that will cost extra time to apply for and money. The license is also not a one-off payment. This will make things more difficult to continue.)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 25 November 2005 11:41 (twenty years ago)

what is the two men in a bar rule?

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 25 November 2005 11:47 (twenty years ago)

if you find yourself in a bar with just one other person, you get a free dog.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 25 November 2005 11:48 (twenty years ago)

dog full'o money?

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 25 November 2005 11:49 (twenty years ago)

If you have two people playing live music in a bar, you did not need to have a live music license to play. Now you do, which, although it will rid the Capital of the menace of JAZZ DUOS is a bit of a nuisance for open mic nights and other bastions of musicians who are just starting out.

― Sophisticated Boom Boom (kate), Friday, 25 November 2005 11:51 (twenty years ago)

yeh, that's wack.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 25 November 2005 11:53 (twenty years ago)

what a bizarre rule

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 25 November 2005 11:54 (twenty years ago)

haha suck on that white stripes.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 25 November 2005 11:54 (twenty years ago)

How will this affect GUERILLA NME GIGS, though?

What's bizarre about the rule? The only thing bizarre is that they're getting rid of a legal loophole that was actually great for musicians.

― Sophisticated Boom Boom (kate), Friday, 25 November 2005 11:55 (twenty years ago)

Hey! Let's put another legal hurdle in the way of grass-roots music in teh uk, eh? That'll show 'em!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 25 November 2005 11:55 (twenty years ago)

Makes me want to take up busking... oh wait, the Cromwellian funhaterz have BANNED THAT, TOO.

― Sophisticated Boom Boom (kate), Friday, 25 November 2005 11:58 (twenty years ago)

i prefer Enriques definition of the rule

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 25 November 2005 11:59 (twenty years ago)

last night I got bored and went home before shutting time.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 25 November 2005 12:45 (twenty years ago)

That rule is clearly ANTI-DRUMMER legislation.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 25 November 2005 19:28 (twenty years ago)

Usually all the noise outside @ the weekend is finished by 1 am. Last night = 3am

Somebody had got down and shat in the street last night, and used their knickers to wipe their ass w/ down the street from us. Unbelievably foul.

I hope it's going to get better than this!!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 26 November 2005 11:26 (twenty years ago)

So, what were other people's experiences?

I stayed in a pub until 1.30 on Friday, which was still quite busy when I left (it was staying open until 3)

On Saturday I went to a club at midnight, which would normally be the post-pub rush time, to a half-full club where it was extremely easy to get served. It never really properly filled up, but at least there was a lack of the usual drunken people stumbling around.

It will be an interesting year ahead.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Monday, 28 November 2005 21:44 (twenty years ago)

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