Iris Murdoch: Classic or Dud?

I saw that 'Iris' trailer last night. It is indeed very poor.

Not bad, but absolutely nothing to do with Iris Murdoch's writing. But the loss of language is heartbreaking. Short too, goes in, does what it sets out to do and fucks off in an hour and a half.

Known by whom? Why are they more wacko than yours? You think the Go- Betweens were the greatest band of the 80s.

Nick thinks swing out sister were the greatest band of the 80's

The Go Betweens were certainly better than the pinefox's Lloyd Cole & The Commotions, Go West and Deacon Blue combined. Actually I think if you combine bands you get an average, or even a lowest common denominator rather than anything any better, so that's not saying much.

Wow...no revive in 14 years.

Anyway, I revived it because I stared at the row of novels at the library, most not checked out since the mid '90s, and wondered where to go after enjoying Bruno's Dream and The Good Apprentice -- The Bell?

I read a batch of her books a couple of years ago, including the Good Apprentice. The Good Apprentice was incredibly long - and I do wonder about her understanding of philosophy and concepts such as 'good'.

The one I enjoyed most was 'A Severed Head'.

A 'Fairly Honourable Defeat' has some of the most ludicrous dialogue I've ever read, including " Give him the treatment, Sid' and 'Want your face smashed, or what? Lend me the chain, Bert.'

A friend of mine gave me a copy of The Bell for xmas and its her favourite.

That's the one I got. Is she still read? In England? Genuinely curious.

Can't speak for UK and never read any of her novels but came to say that I really enjoyed that one book about philosophy.

The trailer for the film is hilarious: "She had a talent for books... BUT HER GREATEST TALENT WAS FOR LIFE!"

the thing is, she's a figure for this sort of claim - I feel like this is particularly embraced in English letters - that a person's work is part of the whole of a beautifully constructed/lived life. which is such an alien idea to me, and sort of assumes a lot about means, etc.

I read The Philosopher's Pupil a while back, and enjoyed it, but it didn't really stick with me. I do remember it feeling very carefully constructed - like something planned meticulously before being undertaken.

Book I am talking about is Metaphysics As A Guide To Morals.

I just realized the other big long novel published in the mid eighties I read was The Philosopher's Pupil, not the one I mentioned earlier.

She seems to break the rules of postwar British/Irish novels and concision, right? Think Spark, Amis, Fitzgerald, Isherwood.

I can't decide whether The Black Prince is a camp minor masterpiece or an epic botch.

A vase? Or two faces in profile?

Just finished The Black Prince and kind of loved it? It's messy and flawed but those are the best kinds of masterpieces imo.

Anyway, this is the first of hers I've read, trying to stop myself from buying a bunch more since my to-read pile is already out of hand.

Hooray. If you do read more I’d pick from The Sea, The Sea (most like The Black Prince), The Bell or Under the Net (lightest after the heaviest of TBP).

Thanks! I'll keep an eye out for those.

Curious what mark s thinks of her generally

when my mum was a student she would see IM cycling around north oxford a lot: mum read some of the early novels when she was young and thought the lifestyle all sounded very tiring

i quite like the argment that an author is like a wicked god towards his or her characters bcz they are allowed no choice in how things turn out (but not enough to remember the actual quote): otherwise i have read nothing and have no strong opinion of my own

when she was a bit younger in the car with her dad she also used sometimes to see the aged george bernard shaw up a ladder cutting his hedge (this was near welwyn)

Unsought non-mark s opinion incoming:

Thank heavens there's a much wider and diverse range of novelists available these days. In general, I can't stand the limited social range of the characters with which she populated her novels. And there's sometimes some portentous theme which is often vague and unresolved (as far as I can tell) and - for my tastes - she was long-winded, very repetitive, uninteresting writer.

unsought non-mark s opinion

tbf these are best opinions

Thank heavens there's a much wider and diverse range of novelists available these days.

And in Murdoch's time too,

I kind of recall liking her book about philosophy, never managed to read one of her novels.

(x-post)

I'm having distant flashbacks to impoverished lost afternoons spent in purgatorial public libraries with their displays of Iris Murdoch, Margaret Drabble, Elizabeth Jane Howard (I think Drabble and Howard must have shared the same cover design team at Penguin?) - and perhaps Angela Carter, if they were being particularly edgy.

I've read several of her novels, and they're of a piece with cultural stirrings mid 20th century. Middle-class readers wanted a drizzle of ontology, teleology, etc. in their Book of the Month Club fiction.