I Just Saw Bill Clinton

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
omg!

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:09 (nineteen years ago)

sweet dick

slow jamz and white guy indie acoustic shit (Chris V), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:10 (nineteen years ago)

thanks

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:15 (nineteen years ago)

I just saw Bill Cinton

...kissing Santa Claus, undneath the mistletoe last night....

Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:15 (nineteen years ago)

well, in gt portland st starbucks, but yeah pretty much.

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:16 (nineteen years ago)

you now have to kiss his penis.

latebloomer: The Corridor (Yes, The Corridor) (latebloomer), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

too late!

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

How's he doing these days? Does he like the coffee?

mike h. (mike h.), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

i would totally blow bill clinton

dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:21 (nineteen years ago)

he likes the coffee so much he took one with him.

he was shorter than i expected, in the trainers-jeans-and-blazer look. they allowed people to get amazingly close. co-worker shook his hand.

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:22 (nineteen years ago)

"Thanks for making Dubya possible and euthanizing the last principles of the Democratic Party."

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:25 (nineteen years ago)

maybe you'd like this country better if it was governed by your beloved stanley kubrick.

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:26 (nineteen years ago)

Haha.

Although, And I'm not a huge student of American politcs so I could be wrong, but I believe it was Al Gore who made Dubya possible.

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:27 (nineteen years ago)

this may be hindsight 20/20 talking among the populace, but i think many polls from the past five years have shown clinton to still be a favorite even among lapsed republicans.

dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:29 (nineteen years ago)

Doesn't make Clinton any better.

3xpost

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

i've pretty much based my life on his. aside from the schooling and ambition and service.

dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

no no, i wasn't calling you a dick. sweet dick willy....thats what i call bill.

slow jamz and white guy indie acoustic shit (Chris V), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:31 (nineteen years ago)

too late!

-- Theorry Henry (miltonpinsk...), December 2nd, 2005.

it's never too late

latebloomer: The Corridor (Yes, The Corridor) (latebloomer), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:38 (nineteen years ago)

Hold on, Bill Clinton was bad?

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:40 (nineteen years ago)

it's all a matter of degree at this point

dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:41 (nineteen years ago)

He was so-so, imho.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:42 (nineteen years ago)

this is kind of besides the point.

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:42 (nineteen years ago)

What about the coffee?

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:44 (nineteen years ago)

Dubya's political style -- not his bumbling verbal inadequacy, mind you -- is very clearly modeled more on Clinton than his father or Reagan.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 15:47 (nineteen years ago)

very clearly modeled more on Clinton than his father or Reagan

ha. how so? other than no child left behind.

my name is john. i reside in chicago. (frankE), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:05 (nineteen years ago)

I saw him at the DC airport a coupld of years ago. He's really tall! and his hair is really bright white!

tobo (tobo), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:06 (nineteen years ago)

i shook his hand in union station when i was a kid

ZR (teenagequiet), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:08 (nineteen years ago)

Well, there's no argument that Dubya doesn't follow after his father(or even speak to him nowadays, as word has it). He seems to ape and openly worship Reagan more than anybody else(same style, cast of characters, etc).

kingfish hobo juckie (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:08 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah but what the hell does his "everyman" hijinks have to do with Reagan? Reagan presented himself in public as being a dottering kindly grandpa, GWB presents himself as a likeable frat boy good time guy. Which seems strikingly similar to another president, yes. Whether or not he's successful has nothing to do with anything.

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:13 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think it matters so much whom he modeled his "political style" on -- it's whom he modeled his ideology on that's the problem.

Abbadabba Berman (Hurting), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:16 (nineteen years ago)

Yes, but that's not what Morbius said. I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone on ILX of all places who would disagree that his ideology, if you can even call them ideas actually, is nonsense.

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:17 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think it matters so much whom he modeled his "political style" on [...]

Exactly! Style is meaningless if it is backed up by content; the thing about Reagan and Bush I is that even though I disagreed with their content, I at least had some reassurance that content existed (much moreso with Bush I, admittedly). Bush II appears to be treating the Presidency like a vanity project as opposed to a job.

(xpost DAMMIT ALLY STOP PRE-EMPTING ME ALREADY GAWD)

Dan (Wafer-Thin President) Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:19 (nineteen years ago)

I saw him at the DC airport a coupld of years ago. He's really tall! and his hair is really bright white!

you must be a shortarse. he wasn't tall. or maybe all the secret service d00ds surrounding him made him look short.

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:24 (nineteen years ago)

I remember that sometime in the mid '90s Harold Bloom, in an aside, wrote, "Reagan, and his parodic successor, Clinton." It struck me as quite offensive then, but now it makes sense.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:25 (nineteen years ago)

Presenting their obviously false 'compassionate' personas to a public that pays virtually no attention to their actual policies is the Clinton-Bush link. Billy "removed the politics" from Aid to Dependent Children by abolishing it, bombed his share of civilians for no greater good, tearfully hugged gays while signing Defense of Marriage Act, sucked corporate and Greenspan dick while 'feeling our pain'... Vile, vile man. At least Reagan got real venom in his voice when damning 'welfare cheats.'

Check out that BBC documentary The Century of the Self; it has its flaws, but the last hour details how that shit Dick Morris engineered Clinton's '96 re-election by putting a phone staff in some Denver office and polling nationwide for EVERY DETAIL of what Bill should say on the stump. Which is how the V-chip and other trivia became major issues.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:27 (nineteen years ago)

that is an awesome doc, but fuck! i just saw bill clinton!

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:29 (nineteen years ago)

Underneath his style, I always got the sense that Clinton was a guy with some liberal ideals from his youth but who had become sort of pragmatic and realist about things, had decided to pick his battles, do what he thought he could do, etc. I didn't agree with him on a lot of things (trade policies, welfare reform), but I at least got the sense of a competent, grounded, intelligent leader. In hindsight, that seems like a lot to ask for in a president.

Abbadabba Berman (Hurting), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

hilary meanwhile was a goldwaterite, yo.

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

The thing about clinton is that i think he could turn the "just folks" bit off, and not feel the need to deliberately exaggerate the folksy delivery in his official speeches, appearances, etc. in a craven attempt to appeal to the (okay, we're getting into loaded terms here)really anti-intellectual aspects of his base.

Oh man, now i'm remembering the Phil Hartman "Clinton in McDonalds" SNL sketch. Those seem like from another lifetime.

kingfish hobo juckie (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

I grant that W is worse, but he's just accelerated our hellbound national station wagon.

Re Gore, remember the testy fallout amid the 2000 recount saying a chill btwn Al and Bill had resulted in Clinton staying off the campaign trail?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:36 (nineteen years ago)

xpost to self -- Not to say political style doesn't matter at all -- it does make you a more or less *effective* leader, but effectiveness at doing things that are bad for the country doesn't cheer me much, and that's just what often annoys me both about the left's unjustified reverence for Clinton and the right's past defenses of Bush ("He's a man of conviction, a man who doesn't waver on a decision." Yeah great, but I'd rather have someone who makes *good* decisions)

Abbadabba Berman (Hurting), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:37 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know if it's necessarily "unjustified reverence" for Clinton, so much as the one non-rightwing President that most folks under 35 can remember well, and the last one who could actually, y'know, do stuff.

kingfish hobo juckie (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 December 2005 16:40 (nineteen years ago)

yes, next time let's not try to win just in case the other side ends up doing our tactics better than we do. i mean, i'm sure that's the approach the Republicans will follow.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:15 (nineteen years ago)

also, let's elect a model of rectitude, because you know that's who wins elections

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:16 (nineteen years ago)

One major difference is that many world leader actually liked and respected Clinton, instead of just tolerating him. Blair nearly gushed everytime he was near... Clinton showed an understanding and genuine interest in Foreign Affairs, while Bush on trips always looks like he's tired and would rather be at the ranch... i.e. whilst sipping kvass in Mongolia a couple weeks back.

andy --, Friday, 2 December 2005 17:17 (nineteen years ago)

For all their conservative credentials, Reagan and Bush I were models of pragmatism compared to George W (though neither were as good in that regard as Clinton). W's busted the budget and gotten the country into its biggest foreign policy boondoggle in a generation. He's never vetoed a bill. He doesn't stand for anything. It's been clear for some time that Cheney and Rove call most of the policy shots. He is pretty much the definition of an empty suit. Reagan was a hands-off President too, but he showed more ability to adjust course than W has done.

o. nate (onate), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:25 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think anyone is still trotting out the truism that there's "no difference" between the parties or between Bush and Gore. If anything it's clear by now that that was a hyperbole propagated by the Nader campaign. It was partly true, because there really were major issues on which the parties were too close and no alternative was being provided. But it's quite clear by now how different they are on others.

I think if Gore was president right now, for example, we'd have a fairly different "terror war." His initial response to 9/11 might have been slightly more tepid than Bush's, he might not have talked as tough, but then I also think he would have been much more cautious about war in Iraq. And that war is really becoming the epicenter from which a lot of our woes ripple out.

Abbadabba Berman (Hurting), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:26 (nineteen years ago)

Reagan, for better or worse, had some sort of conservative vision that was his own. W has exponentially outspent even the King of Big Government, Lyndon Johnson. I don't know why he commands respect from the right, he's not even a good conservative.

andy --, Friday, 2 December 2005 17:29 (nineteen years ago)

I think he's losing respect from the right.

Abbadabba Berman (Hurting), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:30 (nineteen years ago)

Well, it's the 'social issues' that keep them loyal, but even those aren't really conservative issues. Late in life, Goldwater become an outspoken gay rights advocate (before it was cool) and also spoke of abortion as "not a conservative issue" because it was about personal choice and responsibility. Now radicalism is called conservatism... how things change.

andy --, Friday, 2 December 2005 17:34 (nineteen years ago)

let's elect a model of rectitude, because you know that's who wins elections

That's a strawman; LBJ is no one's idea of a MOR, but he signed the civil rights legislation because of conviction, knowing he was giving away the South for ... 40 years, so far?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:44 (nineteen years ago)

Well, he also signed it because an immense and extremely well-organized civil rights movement had captured enough of the nation's attention that he couldn't afford to avoid the problem anymore.

Abbadabba Berman (Hurting), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:46 (nineteen years ago)

And Reagan could deliver speeches; he finally became the great actor he never was in his youth.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:51 (nineteen years ago)

but he signed the civil rights legislation because of conviction, knowing he was giving away the South for ... 40 years, so far?

so you're saying that losing to W isn't Clinton's fault, especially given that he wasn't involved much in 2000, but LBJ's fault? i mean, why don't you blame FDR for giving us presidential term limits that got rid of a guy who demonstrably could have beaten W?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:51 (nineteen years ago)

I blame Lincoln!

andy --, Friday, 2 December 2005 17:53 (nineteen years ago)

that's just what often annoys me both about the left's unjustified reverence for Clinton and the right's past defenses of Bush

I've never heard a single leftist defend Clinton. Ask a leftist about Clinton and he'll either clear his throat and change the subject or blast Dick Morris for promulgating the triangulation of policy theory.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 2 December 2005 17:55 (nineteen years ago)

What is your definition of leftist, again?

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:00 (nineteen years ago)

Pol Pot.

andy --, Friday, 2 December 2005 18:01 (nineteen years ago)

i heard mao ze dong praises clinton effusively

oooh, Friday, 2 December 2005 18:03 (nineteen years ago)

and guevara wears a "bill" tee

oooh, Friday, 2 December 2005 18:04 (nineteen years ago)

Ha. Yeah, I mean, I don't know anyone who calls themselves a liberal who doesn't long for the days of Clinton. I realize liberal !=leftist and longing for the days != defending (at least not always), but still.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:04 (nineteen years ago)

Huh.

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:06 (nineteen years ago)

I was a 22 year old CEO, had $800,000 worth of Petfruitopia.com stock and a razor scooter! I had an extreme climbing wall in my office! I had an electric car! Sure I miss the Clinton years.

andy --, Friday, 2 December 2005 18:07 (nineteen years ago)

i shook his hand in 94, he was very red

oooh, Friday, 2 December 2005 18:07 (nineteen years ago)

Compared to Clinton, Nixon was a domestic leftist, as Stephen Colbert has said to guests (out of character) at least twice on his show ... And polls show that the populace have NOT moved to the right on what they believe in the last 35 years, despite mainstream media mantra. It's all about framing Us vs Them, and who gets disillusioned enough to eschew voting.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:08 (nineteen years ago)

nobody is really arguing otherwise

oooh, Friday, 2 December 2005 18:09 (nineteen years ago)

the populace may not have moved to the right (they were already in the center, and more than willing to err right, but voted left during economic downturns and/or personality cults), but the electorate has.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:11 (nineteen years ago)

The left was always disappointed with Clinton: the band-aid solution to gays-in-the-miltary, the abandonment of a nat'l healthcare initiative, the hemming and hawing over Bosnia and the do-nothing attitude towards Rwanda, the draconian welfare bill, to name a few issues.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:11 (nineteen years ago)

Compared to Clinton, Nixon was a domestic leftist

extremely OTM.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:11 (nineteen years ago)

That's so awesome that he just quoted Stephen Colbert as the authority though! (FWIW I agree with Colbert)

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:11 (nineteen years ago)

Nixon hated the left. He just threw them some easy bones (the environment) on shit that didn't cost him much.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:15 (nineteen years ago)

so?

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:17 (nineteen years ago)

Nixon did beat McGovern by the largest margin in history, too.

andy --, Friday, 2 December 2005 18:17 (nineteen years ago)

That election also had the lowest turnout in U.S. history to date.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:23 (nineteen years ago)

This thread makes me want to sing "I Dreamed I Saw Joe Hill Last Night," but with Clinton's name substituted.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:27 (nineteen years ago)

God, I always think of the 70's as a more strongly democratic era, but this red/blue map of '72 (a modern device applied to an earlier time) is pretty insane: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_American_presidential_election

andy --, Friday, 2 December 2005 18:28 (nineteen years ago)

sterl to thread with lyrics post!!!!!

oooh, Friday, 2 December 2005 18:31 (nineteen years ago)

I've been slowly reading Hunter Thompson's '72 campaign reportage; my God, what a book. Great line it like America will never be able to evolve until the Democratic Party is trashed.

Well I used Colbert cuz he reaches a few more ppl than Chomsky.

Clinton (I guess) hated the right, and caved to them entirely on major shit he thought would get him elected after Gingrich '94. In that BBC show, Robert Reich recalls Morris telling him "What good is an agenda if you don't get elected?" -- and Reich countered with the reverse.

There's even a Clinton moment described in a memoir where he autocritiques "We're Eisenhower Republicans," and I think he was understating it.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:34 (nineteen years ago)

If I ever see Bill Clinton I'm going to buy him a beer.

don weiner (don weiner), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:41 (nineteen years ago)

During every presidential election, critics forecast the death of the electoral college, but it's forgotten by December. Four years later, the debate is rekindled then promptly forgotten.

andy --, Friday, 2 December 2005 18:42 (nineteen years ago)

bill called me once, i wasn't home. he left a message on my answering machine reminding me to vote the following day in the presidential election.

nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:45 (nineteen years ago)

Clinton caved to the right by doing something that was in his platform?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:46 (nineteen years ago)

I will also buy a beer for our first co-president Hillary.

don weiner (don weiner), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:49 (nineteen years ago)

But I won't buy a beer for Al Gore.

don weiner (don weiner), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:50 (nineteen years ago)

don youre a good guy

oooh, Friday, 2 December 2005 18:50 (nineteen years ago)

gore probly drinks that macrobiotic microbrew shit with twigs in it

oooh, Friday, 2 December 2005 18:51 (nineteen years ago)

So, Alfred, what were you saying again about Clinton defenders?

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

You can cave by drawing up a Republocrat platform.

Surely you had friends who told you in '95 and '96 "He's just tacking right to get elected; we'll see THE REAL, LIBERAL BILL in Term Two." Crap.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:53 (nineteen years ago)

Gore drinks Castrol.

(xpost: I didn't have a single friend who was a serious politico who said anything remotely like that! Most of them were either overjoyed that Clinton was centrist or annoyed that he wasn't more liberal; none of them thought he was doing a bait-and-switch.)

Dan (Bideebideebidee) Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:55 (nineteen years ago)

I knew people who said things like that. I was not old enough to vote then though, and really neither were most of the people who said things like that to me, so it doesn't count.

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

I'd rather have a Sharp's with W. than a real beer with Gore.

Maybe.

don weiner (don weiner), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:57 (nineteen years ago)

o, Alfred, what were you saying again about Clinton defenders?

That I don't know any?

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:57 (nineteen years ago)

I would rather not be anywhere near W as his entire demeanor is irrationally repulsive to me.

Dan (Grrr Dumbass) Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah. At least Reagan and Clinton could utter a simple declarative sentence.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

anybody who thought Clinton was doing a bait and switch must have been convinced that he had a core set of beliefs to begin with. And those people were ignorant.

Now that I think about it, I really don't think I could stand being around that fucking smarmy grin. Therefore, I shall drink beer with Al Gore.

don weiner (don weiner), Friday, 2 December 2005 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

EAT ME

http://a820.g.akamai.net/7/820/822/1d/www.esquire.com/img/cover/2000/2000_14.jpg

don weiner (don weiner), Friday, 2 December 2005 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

I saw Gore speak in Portland two months ago and dude was great with teh funney. Biting cynicism suits the former vice president well.

Hell, if nothing else, you could ask him what he thought about his wife going up against Frank Zappa twenty years ago.

Dubya is way too much like the account executives who populated my old company, i.e. i wouldn't have a beer with you if you paid for it.

kingfish hobo juckie (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 2 December 2005 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

God I remember how much punks hated Tipper Gore back then, tossing the word censorship around like confetti.. it seems so benign now.

andy --, Friday, 2 December 2005 19:51 (nineteen years ago)

anybody who thought Clinton was doing a bait and switch must have been convinced that he had a core set of beliefs to begin with. And those people were ignorant.

OTMFM (though maybe I'd substitute deluded for ignorant)

I think it's funny that he's now trying to out-Jimmy Carter Jimmy Carter - does anyone think that all of these new projects are anything but Clinton figuring out how to remain an influential figure for as long as humanly possible? The Esquire 'genius' article frames them as an issue of principle, but I call bullshit. Homeboy didn't give a damn about African AIDS until Jan. 2001.

Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Friday, 2 December 2005 22:42 (nineteen years ago)

Oh man, now i'm remembering the Phil Hartman "Clinton in McDonalds" SNL sketch

"Why that is a beautiful baby. Say, is that the new peppermint mocha frapacino?"

Abbadabba Berman (Hurting), Friday, 2 December 2005 22:56 (nineteen years ago)


God, I always think of the 70's as a more strongly democratic era, but this red/blue map of '72 (a modern device applied to an earlier time) is pretty insane:

Actually, the seventies were the most liberal and reformist time in history. I'm not sure WHY the maps looked the way they did, but the eighties saw an enormously hateful backlash against the reforms and govt programs of the sixties and seventies. If you weren't old enough to witness the seventies, you wouldn't know it, though - so much damage has been done. So to just point to a map as if it indicates anything is kind of reductive.

For example, in the seventies, Christian evangelicalism was a LIBERAL movement.

old timer, Friday, 2 December 2005 23:41 (nineteen years ago)

talking to ppl who think clinton was as bad as reagan/bush I/bush II has made me realize i'm much more of a democrat than i thought i was! he was always a moderate, but right now he looks like the best president since LBJ (which basically means the least bad one;
i sort of agree with the colbert/chomsky line on nixon but doesn't clinton get any points for, you know, not spying on his political rivals, sabotaging peace talks and bombing the shit out of neutral countries?).

"he made dubya possible" is nonsense: gore sabotaged his own campaign by trying to distance himself from clinton as much as possible and half the country still voted for him! the public's supposed distaste for clinton was basically a conservative myth.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 2 December 2005 23:43 (nineteen years ago)

the backlash against '60s/'70s liberalism started in '76, and the democrats were more or less complicit in it: walter karp's "liberty under siege" is a brilliant account of how carter was basically abandoned and betrayed by his own congress.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 2 December 2005 23:45 (nineteen years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.