Dear ILX, please help me revamp this crummy indie magazine

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It's a North-West based indie/rock magazine, currently free, around 32 pages. It was previously done for love but the guy behind it wants to bump it up into a bigger better mag (prompted by the death of Manchester's City Life magazine). He's focusing on distribution and advertising and the content and design has been handed over to myself and a friend. It's bi-monthly at the moment, but they want to make it monthly with a £1 cover price.

At the moment it's not too great, a lot of articles with unknown bands and demo reviews so I intend to strip it down and build it up from scratch.

Does anyone have any advice about how to make it both a quality read and commercially viable? And any tips or links to articles about getting distribution and advertising would be great too.

Affectian (Affectian), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:23 (nineteen years ago)

have better articles

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:25 (nineteen years ago)

don't hire bloggers

dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:28 (nineteen years ago)

houston rap - what are they saying?

436%, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:30 (nineteen years ago)

that should get you started!

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:31 (nineteen years ago)

4,000 word treatise on why mp3 downloading can make you hate music by friday, noon.

dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:32 (nineteen years ago)

gossip column - "that's what she said"

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:32 (nineteen years ago)

"cocaine: not as good since everyone started doing it again"

dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:35 (nineteen years ago)

you can call that article "The New Coke"

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:35 (nineteen years ago)

So, bloggers, Houston, cocaine, I'm writing all this down..

Shout-outs for a Grimly? A Stevie? A Passantino? A Mannion?

Affectian (Affectian), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:36 (nineteen years ago)

not if you paid ME

dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:37 (nineteen years ago)

how to make it ... commercially viable?

(Get someone with a decent sales technique to) Contact everyone who used to pay for advertising in Manchester City Life and/or any other north-west listings/guides. Tell them about the relaunch and revamp. Give them the first chance to be at the vanguard of this new and exciting venture blah blah.

If it has a reputation as "crummy" you might want to think about changing the name.

Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:37 (nineteen years ago)

i hear manufactured girl pop contains hidden depths and surprising pop-culture quoting production these days

dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:37 (nineteen years ago)

southern rap - better than new york rap?

176%, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:39 (nineteen years ago)

this is england, ethan

dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:39 (nineteen years ago)

Commercial viability ultimately translates to readership. To build readership on the "content and design" side of your magazine you need to concentrate on good writing. Recruit as many writers as you can and weed out the sub-standard performers. Develop catchy story ideas you can assign to writers that you trust to deliver the goods.

When you have a few good writers, promise to start paying them as soon as your circulation reaches X number. Their talents will make or break you, so put a lot of effort into finding and keeping the best you can get. Finagle them any way you kow how to keep them on board.

Good layout is a nice-to-have, but nowhere near as important as good writing. Visuals will catch an eye, but content is the only way to hold attention. Artwork needs content, too. Find obsessive artists. The figure out how to make them meet deadlines. Good luck.

Controversy is often a circulation-builder, but choose your controversy wisely. A gossip/opinion column is a good place for controversy. A good columnist knows how to exploit this.

Take some risks, but only take the risks that are worth it on the payout side or else can be buried quickly and forgotten as soon as possible.

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

Have stevie hit the road with Shakira, and watch the sparks fly!

andy --, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:55 (nineteen years ago)

two words: hoodie rock.

Be the first.

dali madison's nut (donut), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:55 (nineteen years ago)

Oh yeah. Steal as many ideas as you can possibly get away with. Steal constantly and creatively. Outdo the people you stole from and laugh. Enjoy your masterly touches on other people's ideas. Chances are they were stolen elsewhere.

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

Bands want publicity. Make them pay for it by being interesting and exposing themselves to scrutiny. Not to mention demanding as many freebies as you can get. Use the freebies to help recruit writers.

You may go further with writers who want to be scenesters than with scenesters who want to write. Just a thought.

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

If you write for your own mag, use a pen name. In fact, pen names are a wonderful tool. Look at ILX. We almost all use pen names. It permits a certain freedom. (See: controversy, above.)

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:12 (nineteen years ago)

Get away with spread after spread of nudity under the guise of a fashion section.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:25 (nineteen years ago)

Don't be afraid to edit. Any article that generates letters from readers is a smashing article. If your readers start to quarrel with each other in the letters section, egg them on. Nothing like a bunch of free-flowing vitriol to jazz up interest in a publication.

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:27 (nineteen years ago)

Use cult figures as whipping boys.

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:28 (nineteen years ago)

Make disparaging remarks about IPods. Start a reader survey about something meaningless that people care about irrationally. Study ILM like an anthropologist. Think deviously.

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:33 (nineteen years ago)

I thought this was going to be about pitchfork.

yeah,it's me, Monday, 12 December 2005 22:57 (nineteen years ago)

Take Mad Magazine and The New Yorker as your models and print many cartoons. Everyone loves cartoons.

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 12 December 2005 23:03 (nineteen years ago)

Perhaps an article on vamping? The musical kind, I mean. Or an article on 'How to Tell if a Band is Shite.' Or how about 'Poseurs: Classic or Dud?' Or maybe 'Dirty Non-English Lyrics Translated' or '100 Top Grafitti from the Women's Loo'?

Aimless (Aimless), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 02:38 (nineteen years ago)

aimless are you bob guccione?

dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 02:40 (nineteen years ago)

tits, obv.

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Tuesday, 13 December 2005 02:44 (nineteen years ago)

sorry i meant indie tits

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Tuesday, 13 December 2005 02:45 (nineteen years ago)

I am The Spirit of Future Crummy Indie Magazine Fun, Incarnate - which could look a lot like bob guccione, come to think of it. Except without the italian shoes.

aka "I got my soul patch workin', but it just don't work on you."

Aimless (Aimless), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 02:50 (nineteen years ago)

Since I once wrote a couple of crappy articles for a crappy free Manchester paper, I'll give you an actual suggestion, something that worked well for a friend's publication: some kind of pubcrawl column where you or somebody goes to dodgy dives and reports back on the conditions therein, but as if you were writing about a fine dining experience. Assessing the atmosphere and clientele and service and whatnot. If you get beat up, it makes the stories better.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 02:50 (nineteen years ago)

All my suggestions have been actual. Bloody actual. They meet all the usual and customary criteria for suggestion actuality.

Aimless (Aimless), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 02:59 (nineteen years ago)

Though I ought to be less qualified than most here to offer advice, I think all the emphasis on writing in the above post is slightly wrong. Which is to say, good writing is very important, and yes, do everything you can to get and keep good writers. But that's not what's initially going to make people start picking up the magazine again (the "commercially viable") part. It takes time to build a reputation for writing. Meanwhile, having striking, original covers, preferably with bands or styles on them that people are actually interested in, will go a long way.

Also, look for ways to differentiate yourself - find a niche and fill it. Maybe there's no music magazine in your market that really respects hip-hop alongside rock (as opposed to just paying it a little lip service) for example.

One of the best things you can probably do is get interviews with artists people have heard of and that are hot/becoming hot right now. It's not as hard as you might think. My only real experience with this comes from my days running a college weekly, but we were able to land interviews with Rick Moody, Margaret Cho, John Waters, Mark Leyner, and a bunch of musicians too that I can't remember. And of course we put them huge on the cover so people would pick up the paper.

Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 04:54 (nineteen years ago)

And actually layout IS important.

Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 04:54 (nineteen years ago)

Avoid self-reference and self-indulgence, none of this 'what a month we've had/hedonistic anecdotes' editorial bollocks, unless you can do it well enough as to miraculously both tantalise freshers and placate jaded embittered cynics ten years older.

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 16:31 (nineteen years ago)

Pretty much love everything you said, Aimless. Thanks to everyone for the advice.

Affectian (Affectian), Wednesday, 14 December 2005 00:36 (nineteen years ago)

what's the mag? been tryin' to work it out (i really should know) and i'm drawing a blank (giz a hint if you don't wanna say?)... yeah, don't have self-referential stuff. yr readers don't give a fuck what you were doing with who last tuesday at 5am. design/layout IS important - would YOU have re but the writing is more important. give ppl breaks but not an easy ride. LIE ABOUT DEADLINES, this way people will actually meet them. and yeah, it's really easy for a mag like this to get interviews with upancomin bands (er unless everyone actually thinks it's crap... even then it's turnroundable - look at the mess that was get rhythm and compare it with what the new ed has made get rhythm 2 into - ok, it's not like everyone's falling at its feet, but they don't automatically prefix its name with an expletive).

emsk ( emsk), Wednesday, 14 December 2005 00:49 (nineteen years ago)

what's the mag? been tryin' to work it out (i really should know) and i'm drawing a blank (giz a hint if you don't wanna say?)... yeah, don't have self-referential stuff. yr readers don't give a fuck what you were doing with who last tuesday at 5am. design/layout IS important - would YOU have read rip & burn?? ever? - but the writing is more important. give ppl breaks but not an easy ride. LIE ABOUT DEADLINES, this way ppl will actually meet them. and yeah, it's really easy for a mag like this to get interviews with upancomin bands (er unless everyone actually thinks it's crap... even then it's turnroundable - look at the mess that was get rhythm and compare it with what the new ed has made get rhythm 2 into - ok, it's not like everyone's falling at its feet, but they don't automatically prefix its name with an expletive).

emsk ( emsk), Wednesday, 14 December 2005 00:50 (nineteen years ago)

why did that go twice? sorry. bit tipsy post-fap.

emsk ( emsk), Wednesday, 14 December 2005 00:51 (nineteen years ago)

True that about deadlines. Don't make them too far off. In my experience people who are going to write for you do it right off, as soon as you pitch the idea. The ones you have to chase down aren't worth it. As soon as someone emails me to doublecheck a deadline, I know they're not going to produce a thing.
Layout should breathe. Don't clutter pages or go nuts with the software. Avoid anything physically hard to read, like too-small print or print on gray background. Stick to a couple of fonts. Times!

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Wednesday, 14 December 2005 02:19 (nineteen years ago)

I always make sure my issue themes are something I can write about myself, in case I don't get enough submissions. Just use those pen names! No need for people to know you wrote the whole damn thing.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Wednesday, 14 December 2005 02:21 (nineteen years ago)

If it has a reputation as "crummy" you might want to think about changing the name.

but if Ian's going for a full redesign, the name might be all that's left! Chenge the name as well as the design and the content, and you've got an entirely new magazine...which may of course be exactly what you want. just sayin'.

also, beth otm re fonts and everything else except maybe "The ones you have to chase down aren't worth it." which is by no means true.

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Wednesday, 14 December 2005 09:25 (nineteen years ago)

Are you going to try to expand your remit to cover other cultural arenas, or stick with the indie/rock? Everyone I know who bought City Life did so for theatre & art reviews, book reviews and the like, as well as club and gig reviews and listings. I'm not sure how much the demise of City Life will affect the market for straight-up music mags.

BTW, if you're interested in covering the creative writing / dramatic arts scene in Manc, give me a shout and I'll put the word out. I know a lot of writers. They're mostly wierdo performance poets with funny clothes and no journalistic experience, but you might get something interesting out of them.

Zora (Zora), Wednesday, 14 December 2005 09:52 (nineteen years ago)

Have stevie hit the road with Shakira, and watch the sparks fly!

i gave up touring with bands after travelling with the pattern, when i realised nothing could top that night in the teutonic techno club in leeds.

foxy boxer (stevie), Wednesday, 14 December 2005 10:45 (nineteen years ago)

as for serious advice - a lot of it has been said. make it readable, yes. get good writers, yes. and lie about deadlines - oh, yes yes yes yes yes. the advice on chasing up the best City Life writers, and listening to their experience, is important too.

trust your on instincts, but be aware of when you mistakes, and rectify them, and aim to not repeat them.

mostly, make something that people will want to read, because that's why people buy magazines (though this is often lost on marketing departments).

and a warning: you will now be working with 'creative' people, so expect insanity from them as standard.

foxy boxer (stevie), Wednesday, 14 December 2005 10:50 (nineteen years ago)

I'd rather not say what the mag is, in case of future googling. But if anyone wants to know just email me at this hotmail address and I'll explain more about it.

Some really great advice here, thanks Beth, Stevie and Emsk.

Zora, at the moment I have to stick to music but it's true what you say about City Life's death not having a massive effect on music writing so I'll suggest that to the big bosses.

Does anyone have any knowledge about distribution and advertising? This won't be my main focus but it'd be good to hear some ideas about how best to get it out there.

Affectian (Affectian), Wednesday, 14 December 2005 15:41 (nineteen years ago)


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