as you get older, you get more conservative

of course the irony is, conservatism, of any kind, doesn't always bring the peace of mind and acceptance it should, but to fears and worries of threats to the status quo they are now a part of, though perhaps that is necessary as an outlet for the anger that people still feel about things

"I avoided being too radical in my youth so I wouldn't become conservative when I got old."

works for me. I just want to continue getting older.

So yes, a lot of liberalism/leftism can be taken to extremes, to the point where it becomes stupid. I've always seen liberalism as a utopian view whereas conservatism is more realist - and yet I always take the liberal side. Why? Because conservatism is too easy in this day and age. If you stop believing that one day we will achieve peace among nations, on an environmentally safe and politically and socially just planet, then you've given up. And what's worse is you've given into a certain strain of human corruption that incorporates greed, hatred and a total lack of basic human kindness.

EXACTLY

realist perhaps, but with a very limited (self-limiting?) take on what's realistically possible. the best kind of liberals come up with good ideas that actually stand a chance of being put to use and succeeding. utopianism that works and isn't just a bunch of theory.

Yeah. I've definitely gotten more convinced of the value of pragmatic, dedicated people pushing at the ground level to try to get things done. Of course, you have to accept that every step is usually really a half-step compromise, and also that you always have to fight rearguard actions to hold onto whatever ground you gain.

I also have less and less patience for ideologues of any kind.

xpost: I don't think "conservatism" is more realist. Of course, I can't even tell what "conservatism" is anymore.

But I thought what happened with Social Security this year was encouraging. I mean, there are still some serious decisions to make about that program, but the immediate public distrust of anyone messing with its foundations was a nice rejoinder to the idea that America has become a nation of dittoheads and Milton Friedman disciples.

But trust me on the sunscreen :)

but i digress. i have become more hostile to ideologues of ALL types as i have become older.

It may help that I lived through a fairly radicalizing period of history. The lessons of Selma, Montgomery and Little Rock - of The Cuban Missile Crisis, Vietnam and Watergate - of the Watts and Detroit riots - of the Kennedy and King asssasinations - of the Prague Spring, the Soviet invasion, and Jan Palach's self-immolation - of the power-grabbing Nixon administration and the manipulations of Kissinger - these are hard lessons to forget. They're colorfast and don't fade.

i also disagree with the contention that conservatism (in its current, bushist form) is more "realist." a TRUE realist of any ideology wouldn't (a) run up enormous budget deficits by compulsively cutting taxes while simultaneously arguing that such cuts will lead to budgetary balance or even a surplus (it was called "voodoo economics" back in the day); (b) ignore and/or badmouth science when it doesn't conform to their worldview; or (c) invade a large country with tens of millions of people with an inadequate number of troops and expect such inadequate numbers to keep the place from imploding.

Of course, I was talking on a very meta level when I said conservatism as a social ideology was more realist than liberal/left values. I am not endorsing it. It's more a defeatist attitude - more a, "we're fucked up, people are fucked up, things aren't going to change, the world's never going to be taught to "sing", we're in a mess and that's the end of it and we're just trying to hold it together so it doesn't spiral out of control". It's a Hobbesian outlook I guess, especially when compared to the liberal ideals of "the world is fucked up and we've made it that way, but maybe we're now mature enough to sort it out, turn it around, without a nanny to tell us what to do."

Would this make sense?

of course, those minor differences, can still be major when they directly affect people...

people complained, and still do, about the "minor differences between the parties" in the US back in 2000. you see what we got, and what we've given the world.

vote labor or lib dem, please.

sincerely,
yr american cousins

I wondered whether my tastes were getting more conversative, or just that most clothing around now for young adults is shite?

cool in mind and action, not so much in fashion style. (although, i will admit that at 30, i dress pretty shamelessly stupid on occasion.)

?

re: the original question, i've gotten more conservative in two ways:

a) i've realized that not all conservatives are assholes and that many or even most of them have some or at least one good idea in there somewhere.

b) i've realized that plenty of liberals are assholes and that many or most of them have at least one REALLY STUPID idea that makes no sense at all. the kind of thing that even if passed would immediately be revealed for the shitbag it was.

so i've become more of a moderate... even tho in these times, that still makes me quite a liberal evidentally.

m.

as i've gotten older i've gotten more educated about most things, which has been accompanied by a steady shift to less conservative political views. i can't believe how ignorant i was when i was younger, and i often wonder if i will continue to feel this right through my life (i.e. in 10 years time, will i look back at my 2006 views on life and boggle at their stupidity?).

NZs recent eco groth has nothing to do with what he considers an ideological change, he clealy has no idea what NZders want from WTO or the deregulated state of our economy today, its all utter nonsense I could blab all day- the structual framework laid earlier is virtually identical today ,he gives no acknowedgement to limitations on our economy, or where our advantages lie, he avoids acknowedging the dire state of our economy pre 1984, and his absurd link to some rebirth in indigenous values by european nzders (he calls them interlopers ) as the drive behind the change, etc etc its very very poor stuff,Im no fan of unregulated markets but my 4th form economics students could do better work than this, truely awful.

But I thought what happened with Social Security this year was encouraging. I mean, there are still some serious decisions to make about that program, but the immediate public distrust of anyone messing with its foundations was a nice rejoinder to the idea that America has become a nation of dittoheads and Milton Friedman disciples.

What's funny about that is that I remember reading that Friedman was actually liberal when he was younger and he actually had a hand in the creation of the New Deal. There's enough irony in all of that and this thread to wipe this thread off of the face of the internet.

Oh yeah, I remember a quote from Reagan calling Goldwater a "fascist" back in the 1960s when he was with that liberal group but I can't find it anywhere online.