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so i'm watching a replay of a bad bull ride, and man, those clowns, those clowns, they will fucking die to save your ass.

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for real.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 9 January 2006 03:16 (twenty years ago)

are you watching Beyond the Bull on TLC? i'm watching Sports Disasters right now. motorcycle just pulled a wicked flip

― jaxon (jaxon), Monday, 9 January 2006 03:24 (twenty years ago)

no, it was totally on sports disasters.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 9 January 2006 03:28 (twenty years ago)

reckless rex is fucked.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 9 January 2006 03:28 (twenty years ago)

oh god. that guy doing the bike flips into the pool and hitting his leg! i keep screaming OH GOD. OH GOD!

― jaxon (jaxon), Monday, 9 January 2006 03:29 (twenty years ago)

rodeo amazes me, the tactical skill of course, but well how the fuck do you manage o get on 2 tonnes of angry bull day after day!!

― anthony easton (anthony), Monday, 9 January 2006 04:30 (twenty years ago)

easy, cause you know
that you just don't give a fuck
about anything

when you make cash from
such animal cruelty
you have no more fear

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 9 January 2006 04:35 (twenty years ago)

they are nutz!

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 9 January 2006 04:35 (twenty years ago)

I respect the clowns
but they prop up the system
AND IT IS CORRUPT

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 9 January 2006 04:50 (twenty years ago)

come on, it's no worse than horseback riding!

― Special Agent Gene Krupa (orion), Monday, 9 January 2006 05:01 (twenty years ago)

I wonder if Ally's sister is still dating a rodeo clown.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 9 January 2006 05:50 (twenty years ago)

i dont think that it is animal cruelty, i think that they respect bulls a lot more, love the bulls, treat the bulls as almost equal, much more then any ohama slaughter house

― anthony easton (anthony), Monday, 9 January 2006 06:13 (twenty years ago)

that shit is NOT true,
all the shit they do to bulls
should be criminal

Anthony, I come from a town where people do this for fun and money, the central event of our county fair was always the big rodeo, so it's not big-city anti-country prejudice happening here. If you want to be in love with "good ol' American country traditions" for whatever reason that's fine, but don't romanticize squeezing bulls' testes together with metal wire just to get 'a good ride' for the cheering audience.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 9 January 2006 06:20 (twenty years ago)

Rodeo sites always claim that's just propaganda from them evil animal-rights activists, but if it's untrue I want to know how they piss them off that much in such a short amount of time.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Monday, 9 January 2006 06:21 (twenty years ago)

But if you feel that way about rodeo (and I generally do) that just makes the end-of-year/season shows all the more fun, when they show the Top 10 redneck stompings.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Monday, 9 January 2006 06:22 (twenty years ago)

it's not the riders
that make the big money though
(nor is it the clowns)!

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 9 January 2006 06:25 (twenty years ago)

It's the dust and the
mud, the bulls and the blood, they
call it RODEO !!!!

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Monday, 9 January 2006 09:42 (twenty years ago)

i also come from rodeo country (big rodeo country, the nationals are here), and have actually done work for some...the squeezing of balls, the making the bull angry, all of that shit, may or may not be nice (i think it hurts less then peta claimss, and they just breed onery bastards) but it is a natural extension of cattle raising--it is not more cruel then squeezing the balls to castrate

― anthony easton (anthony), Monday, 9 January 2006 13:16 (twenty years ago)

i thought the bulls got so mad because they had somebody holding onto their back. i figured that would be enough.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 9 January 2006 16:11 (twenty years ago)

i think that they respect bulls a lot more, love the bulls, treat the bulls as almost equal
vs.
the squeezing of balls, the making the bull angry, all of that shit, may or may not be nice

So in your world, mutilation and the systematic infliction of pain is "respect" and "love" and equal treatment? Anthony, comparing this cruelty positively to castration and slaughter is a bullshit argument and you know it. But whatever, I won't change your mind and you definitely won't change mine, and it doesn't matter anyway because this horrible shit will continue no matter what I say here. You -- and the majority, howling for blood -- win.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 9 January 2006 16:58 (twenty years ago)

It's no worse than circumsizing infants, which is pretty standard practice in this Western world.

― ps haikunym, you broke form, dude, Monday, 9 January 2006 17:08 (twenty years ago)

But yeah, rodeo clowns...they some suicide bomb of smiley face paint motherfuckers, huh?

― krusty the dead klown, Monday, 9 January 2006 17:10 (twenty years ago)

i know i like it when my boyfriend wraps shit round my balls...

― anthony, Monday, 9 January 2006 17:27 (twenty years ago)

well, there it is then!

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 9 January 2006 17:29 (twenty years ago)

...

― cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Monday, 9 January 2006 17:34 (twenty years ago)

don't romanticize squeezing bulls' testes together with metal wire

I am so mad that I am too late to this thread to make a relevant joke off of this line.

― Dan (Grrr) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 9 January 2006 17:36 (twenty years ago)

yeah, really, where the hell were you?

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 9 January 2006 18:04 (twenty years ago)

Clearly the answer is to wrap the rodeo clowns' testes with barbed wire.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 9 January 2006 18:05 (twenty years ago)

Hall-monitor clarification: Haiku, Anthony did say they love the bulls "more than any Omaha slaughterhouse," which is obviously saying something different from claiming they love them outright.

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 9 January 2006 18:06 (twenty years ago)

I was in meetings most of the morning! At any rate, Anthony and Haikunym admirably picked up for my slack.

Ned, I don't know what kinds of rodeo you've seen but I don't think anyone's riding the clowns.

― Dan (WHENEVER I SEE A RODEO, I JUST WANNA PUT MY ASS IN IT) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 9 January 2006 18:08 (twenty years ago)

nabs yr disqualified, that "omaha slaughterhouse" thing was clearly a new phrase rather than part of the original serial construction

carry on then

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 9 January 2006 18:13 (twenty years ago)

WHENEVER I SEE A RODEO, I JUST WANNA PUT MY ASS IN IT

oh GOD what will we say to the children about those "Real Sex" episodes circa 1997

― kingfish pibb Xtra (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 9 January 2006 18:32 (twenty years ago)

ive been thinking about this all day, and i have about 5 points:

1) i really like rodeo, i really admire the skills, and i like it on a theoritical level, i find it exciting to watch, and its combonation of brute force and finesse thrills me.
2) i think if you want to look at animal cruelty, you start at how we farm animals, battery hens and pigs come immeditatley to mind, but cows as well (cf temple grandins work on slaughterhouses)
3) i find it really sad, that people are too nice these days, i find that our realtionship with animals really is related to, in tennyson's words about natures "red w. tooth and claw"
4) i find that from what i ahve written about and witnessed, personally, that rodeo cowboys haev a realtionship w. their animals, and this realtionship is ritually codifed (ie in bull riding half the points go to the bull)
5)i think it is naive, and ruins genuine rural culture, when we become cute about conflating animals and people...i think this is my last remaining power imbalance, i refuse to belive that animals are the same category set as humans.

that said
1) there is a real danger of making suffering some kind of butch theatrics, for the sake of an old life, when life has changed
2) we cannot changing the farming methods of meat in this country, unless we change the culture of meat (and this includes rodeo)
3) cows are not grizzly bears or even deer.
4) ritual codification does forgive things, and should not imdeiatley be conflated w. respect.
5) i am treating rodeo as an often nostalgic spectacle, and thats not cool.

you might be right haiku

― anthony, Monday, 9 January 2006 22:47 (twenty years ago)

i think it is naive, and ruins genuine rural culture, when we become cute about conflating animals and people...i think this is my last remaining power imbalance, i refuse to belive that animals are the same category set as humans.

I completely agree with this and I completely abhor wanton and flagrant cruelty. However, I am not at all convinced that constricting an animal's testicles in an attempt to piss it off isn't wanton and flagrant cruelty.

― Dan (No Matter How Romantic It May Be) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 9 January 2006 22:51 (twenty years ago)

i dont know dan, i really dont...( i mean, roughly, you dont really need the bovine cock ring, the chute is tight, the bulls are breed mean, and big, and they are breed to buck, but i doubt that haiku would be okay w/i regardless)

― anthony, Monday, 9 January 2006 22:53 (twenty years ago)

weird.. this is what's in my clipboard right now -

(1) If we are justified in denying direct moral status to animals then we are justified in denying direct moral status to the marginal cases (severely mentally handicapped, senile, etc.)

(2) We are not justified in denying direct moral status to the marginal cases.

(3) Therefore we are not justified denying direct moral status to animals.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 9 January 2006 22:54 (twenty years ago)

Tracer, I would agree with that if I didn't think it was insulting to the "marginal cases" to refer to them as "marginal cases" and equate them with animals. The most severely brain-damaged human being trumps an animal because of speciesism.

― Dan (Save Our Race, The Human Race) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 9 January 2006 22:56 (twenty years ago)

so simply being human is morally relevant?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 9 January 2006 22:58 (twenty years ago)

Yes, assuming I understand what you mean by the phrase "morally relevant".

― Dan ("Soylent Green Is Made Of Chickens!" Doesn't Have The Same Ring To It) Perr, Monday, 9 January 2006 23:00 (twenty years ago)


watching news footage of the running of the bulls in pamplona, i told a Spanish friend that i would do the run one day, and then whilst in the coliseum at the end i would jump on the back of a mad bull and ride him rodeo style. my Spanish friend told me if i did that i would be torn apart by an angry mob.

― titty sanskrit (sanskrit), Monday, 9 January 2006 23:01 (twenty years ago)

Peter Singer in the house!

Anthony you are a true Platonian seeker; I wish I had your discipline and open heart. And I'm not just saying that because it looks like you might be moving over to my side, I'm saying it because you never let yourself have an unexamined opinion. I myself have about 500.

I am a vegetarian because I do not accept the power balance, and because I think the meat/land/resource relationship is MUCH more corrupt than any shitkickin' rodeo.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 9 January 2006 23:04 (twenty years ago)

i meant to question if there's an inherent value in simply being human which places humans highest in the heirarchy of the animal kingdom.

if you say that, though, you give up the position that humans are more morally relevant than animals because of their rationality or intelligence.

yes, haikunym, it's for a peter singer article!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 9 January 2006 23:05 (twenty years ago)

i think the thing in my clipboard is a logical fallacy of some kind, anyway

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 9 January 2006 23:06 (twenty years ago)

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060109/capt.nyet27501091906.one_eyed_cat__nyet275.jpg

― account settings (account), Monday, 9 January 2006 23:09 (twenty years ago)

i swear that thing just blinked at me

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 9 January 2006 23:12 (twenty years ago)

i think humans and animals are the same, we are just better at catching animals now than they are at catching us. it doesn't mean that they don't have their own equally admirable skills.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 9 January 2006 23:15 (twenty years ago)

I think the logical fallacy is saying that retarded human beings are simultaneously of lesser worth than regular human beings due to being equivalent to animals and of equal worth to regular human beings because they are human beings, implying that other animals are equivalent to human beings via a sloppy bait-and-switch abuse of the transitive property. If you're going to make that type of argument, you don't need to involve the mentally handicapped at all; just say you think people are equal to animals and have the courae to stand by your assertion.

― Dan (Just Not Cricket) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 9 January 2006 23:15 (twenty years ago)

i think the argument is about the ability to reason; i.e. does justice only apply to beings that have a sense of justice? if consciousness is limited to just brute pain or pleasure with no sense of a life's progress or consciousness of self beyond immediate physical sensation, then we are hypocrites for performing experiments on animals and not on the severely disabled. so the argument goes. you don't have to say "people are equal for animals" to get to that point.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 9 January 2006 23:29 (twenty years ago)

equal TO

for some reason i'm pissing myself off, now

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 9 January 2006 23:32 (twenty years ago)

Actually it would probably be more scientifically valid to experiment on other human beings but that's a big pile of eugenics I do not want to step into.

― Dan (Muenster-Faced Baby?) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 9 January 2006 23:34 (twenty years ago)

that's it, it was the whole "turning into a nazi" thing, i guess

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 9 January 2006 23:35 (twenty years ago)

engineering a baby whose face was made of cheese sounds like an accident waiting to happen, though.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 9 January 2006 23:36 (twenty years ago)

the most tasty accident

― account settings (account), Monday, 9 January 2006 23:43 (twenty years ago)

i take what i said back. i actually think fish and almost all marine life are better than people. especially lobsters.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 00:00 (twenty years ago)

ive read my singer, and sat w. him--i really do admire his raw utlitarinism(sp), his willingness to go to the edges, and to do taxonomy other people arent willing to do--and his humanity...but i dont agree with him.

haiku, thank you

― anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 01:21 (twenty years ago)

this is the funniest thread title in a while

― don't start a RYE-OTT! (plsmith), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 01:31 (twenty years ago)

what don't you agree with, anthony? he's come out AGAINST the whole "retards are just as good to do experiments on as rabbits" line, for essentially pragmatic reasons, i.e. the legal implications are enough to make you sick -- he's essentially said that humanity is a "tiebreaker" if one is totting up relative consciousnesses

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 07:45 (twenty years ago)


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