Anthony Lane's Thoughts on Cinema 2005

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In this week's New Yorker. Unsurprisingly, I disagree. When he confesses that he hasn't liked an American film in years, it's hard to feel any sympathy.

But this part is quite amusing:

A while ago, I spoke with a class of film students. Each of them, smart and keen, sketched out for me the bones of a screenplay that he or she was writing. Two things rapidly became clear. First, there was not a speck of comedy in sight. These kids were not just serious about their work; they could conceive only of characters who were serious about their lives. Second, when I suggested that those characters might be slipped, unheralded, into the action I was gently corrected, not by the students but by their teacher. “We don’t do that here,” he said. I knew, courtesy of Hamlet, that there’s a special providence in the fall of a sparrow, but it now appears that the sparrow will request a cut of the DVD sales and a backstory the size of “Moby-Dick.”

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 00:00 (twenty years ago)

For this kind of talk, he should be banished to ILF.

― Redd Harvest (Ken L), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 00:07 (twenty years ago)

When I agree with him, it's lovely. But more often I'm irritated by his sourpuss attitude. That teacher does seem like a prig, though.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 00:12 (twenty years ago)

I want to know what he means by "slipped, unheralded, into the action."

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 00:16 (twenty years ago)

I forgot to post the link. Sorry:

http://www.newyorker.com/critics/cinema/

(and Beth is quite OTM.)

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 00:22 (twenty years ago)

he's citing "gladiator" as an example of one of the last american films he enjoyed? idiot.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 00:29 (twenty years ago)

actually, I think diagnosing American movies as being unwatchably serious is pretty OTM. Were there a lot of good funny movies that I missed this year?

― Sym Sym (sym), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 03:09 (twenty years ago)

That's why so many of us were quick to applaud The 40 Year-Old Virgin.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 03:11 (twenty years ago)

It's a kind of nothing column -- it's not like po-faced self-importance is a new trait in Hollywood middlebrow drama. But I like his list of recent favorites. I haven't seen Head On or Dreamlife of Angels, but the other ones he flags are all pretty great (and his enthusiasm for Lilya 4-Ever was one of the things that got me to go see it, which i'm glad for). I at least find him more reliable in his enthusiasms than David "Crash" Denby.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 03:33 (twenty years ago)

Dreamlife of Angels was my favorite film of 1999, actually.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 04:04 (twenty years ago)

ah that's a great film.

More suicide, please.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 04:13 (twenty years ago)

oh i guess i just ruined the ending

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 04:13 (twenty years ago)

it's at #217 in my netflix queue, i'll forget the spoiler by then

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 04:16 (twenty years ago)

bump it up, it's better than The Yakuza Papers!

(actually, I haven't seen the Yakuza Papers, but Alex in SF likes it...)

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 04:35 (twenty years ago)

i've only watched the first disc of the yakuza papers so far, but i liked it. exciting gangster stuff, plus some interesting social/historical commentary around the edges. the others will be arriving as send some other things back.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 04:37 (twenty years ago)

(but i may well bump up dreamlife, the order in my queue is completely random)

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 04:41 (twenty years ago)

Hahaha Film Students in Taking Themselves Seriously SHOCKER!

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 04:42 (twenty years ago)

i'm puzzled by the examples he uses to illustrate his point but i think he's pretty OTM.

― jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 12:18 (twenty years ago)

It's funny that he is distraught by the lack of humor in American movies, yet his favourite movies of recent years were Lily 4-Eva, Dreamlife of Angels, and the Return. Yes, there is a tendency to overanalyze in Hollywood, but perhaps it's better than always underanlyzing? Batman Begins was a fantastic film, and I remember Peter Bradshaw giving the Fantastic Four four out of five stars because it was simple and didn't deal with the 'dark psychology of the super-hero'. He forgot to notice that Fantastic Four was not only vapid and simplistic, it was also completely joyless.

I like Anthony Lane, but he's just being a reactionary critic, content to bemoan Hollywood's inability to attempt either one-dimensional silliness or three-dimensional seriousness. There have been lots of great American movies over the past few years, and some of them precisely because they pay attention to character. And surely there is nothing more simplistic than the revenge story of Gladiator?

― Gukbe (lokar), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 12:57 (twenty years ago)

Gladiator is Spartacus's bitch.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 14:29 (twenty years ago)

I thought Anthony Lane's piece in the black-cover post 9/11 New Yorker was the best of the bunch, though.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 14:40 (twenty years ago)

There have been lots of great American movies over the past few years

Lots?? Cuz after Mulholland Dr., Eternal Sunshine and maybe Far from Heaven, I'm kinda stuck.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 15:23 (twenty years ago)

Morbius, you are such a snob! I for one am dying to catch up on the cornucopia Hollywood has offered up these busy past few years.

― Redd Harvest (Ken L), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 15:45 (twenty years ago)

Todd Solondz!
Neil Labute! (though I skipped Possession)
Jarmusch, esp. Ghost Dog, Dead Man, and Broken Flowers.
Sofia Coppola's Lost in Translation and Virgin Suicides
David Gordon Green's George Washington
I loved Rushmore, though I can't connect to Life Aquatic or Royal Tenenbaums. I found them oddly unfelt. Bottle Rocket was okay, though it suffered a bit from that, too. But Rushmore was so great, I'll go to everything Wes Anderson does on the off-chance that he'll pull it out of the hat again.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 15:45 (twenty years ago)

Outside of the three you named (and I think Eternal Sunshine tops the films of the that year easily), off the top of my head: Collateral, Master and Commander, A History of Violence (should I not count it?), Sideways, the Kill Bill films, possibly Million Dollar Baby, American Splendour, Spider-Man 2, Adaptation, etc...

― Gukbe (lokar), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 15:49 (twenty years ago)

I've seen all of those but Master and Commander, and "great" ain't what it used to be. (In the case of Collateral and the last third of Million Dollar Baby, even dreadfully familiar genre rehashes are more fraudulent than they used to be.)

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 15:58 (twenty years ago)

the Kill Bill films

You're joking, right?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:00 (twenty years ago)

Neil Labute sucks. Todd Solondz mostly sucks. Million Dollar Baby should have been made for tv.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:06 (twenty years ago)

ooooooh, I've come over all "NRQ"!

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:07 (twenty years ago)

wot wot peeps, innit, etc.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:07 (twenty years ago)

adamrl, are you trying to get with Anthony Lane or something? Sheesh!
I want to see A History of Violence.
And yes! Kill Bills!!!!

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:11 (twenty years ago)

Cronenberg's Canadian, though, which is why I didn't list Atom Egoyan.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:12 (twenty years ago)

Hell yes, the Kill Bill films. Collateral was amazing precisely because it was a genre piece, and the end of Million Dollar Baby does let the side down, but I love the spareseness of the direction.

I was considering films produced by American studios. I though History of Violence was, but I could be wrong. Still, Lane's problem seems to be with the American production system, not it's directors.

― Gukbe (lokar), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:20 (twenty years ago)

ooooooh, I've come over all "NRQ"!
-- adamrl (adamr...), January 10th, 2006.

i've been dreaming about this longtime.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:20 (twenty years ago)

phew, me too

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:21 (twenty years ago)

Tom Cruise as grayhaired badass in designer suit = stinko

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:22 (twenty years ago)

i like:

spike jonze
michel gondry
pta
wes anderson
david fincher
david o russell

michael mann

wilson-stiller-ferrell, etc.

most of beth's choices are the suck, though.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:23 (twenty years ago)

aah, you're one of those...

Well anyway, I think Hollywood has put out some fantastic films recently. Of course, I haven't seen nearly as many French, Swedish, Japanese, etc... films I have North American, so comparing is out of the question. On the other end of the quality spectrum, Hollywood produced Elizabethtown Stealth, whilst France produced 5x2, and Satan produced Yes. Proportionally, I'm not sure who was worse.

― Gukbe (lokar), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:27 (twenty years ago)

"you're one of those" remark was intended for Dr. Morbius.

― Gukbe (lokar), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:28 (twenty years ago)

most of beth's choices are the suck, though.

Dead Man, Virgin Suicides and George Washington are good. Not sure about the rest.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:29 (twenty years ago)

I'm excited to see Yes AND 5x2!

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:29 (twenty years ago)

'dead man' = 11 years old!

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:30 (twenty years ago)

American films are still miles better those produced by most other countries (see Britain and France esp.)

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:31 (twenty years ago)

And I didn't even mention my dark-side choices.
UNDERWORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:33 (twenty years ago)

How can you know, unless you've seen a hundred or so from each? One of the best films I saw from France last year, Assayas' Clean, is being sat on by its US distributor.

The 'last few years' strikes me as meaning 3 or 4. The downhill plunge for Hollywood has been Coney Island Cyclone-like after an unusually good 1999.

Continentwise, Asia has certainly produced more good films I've seen in the last 5-10 years than North America.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:36 (twenty years ago)

xpost to Dadaismus re UK & France

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:37 (twenty years ago)

Master and Commander is pretty good. Far from a masterpiece, but entertaining. Paul Bettany's always acceptable in his roles, I might even see the DaVinci Code for him as murderous Albino flagellant.

Great American movie not mentioned yet - 25th Hour. Does Gosford Park count? It's about Britishes, but by an American director (and accepted by American audiences).

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:37 (twenty years ago)

I hated Brokeback Mountain. The sheep were the only good part, the huge herd moving through the landscape like a river. I could have watched hours of that shit. Once the sheep left the story there was no reason to linger in the uncomfortable theater seat.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:40 (twenty years ago)

Put it this way, I haven't seen a good French film in ohhhhhhhh, I haven't seen a good French film... but seriously, not for donkey's years

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:40 (twenty years ago)

I like French films.

How can you know, unless you've seen a hundred or so from each? One of the best films I saw from France last year, Assayas' Clean, is being sat on by its US distributor.

What about all the US stuff like Chain and Police Beat that never got a theatrical release in their own country?

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:43 (twenty years ago)

I liked both Gosford Park (from a filmmaker I always check out) and 25th Hour quite a bit. And neither are GREAT.

The Joy of Life and Chain, both unreleased US films, are currently in my top 10 for '05. But the odds are still greater against foreign films.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:52 (twenty years ago)

good frenches films of late (ie 3-4 years):
kings and queen', 'demonlover', 'lemming', 'irreversible', 'time out'. i think we're in a bit of a rut, hollywood-wise -- what happened to decent indie films?

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:53 (twenty years ago)

These days we overrate good Hollywood films because the ratio of good to great films produced by Hollywood has dropped precipitously. I'm thinking specifically of Mystic River, Master & Commander, and Brokeback Mountain, all of which were produced by the truckload by smart hacks like Michael Curtiz, Henry Hathaway, John Farrow 60 years ago, none of which would have been greeted with hosannas.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:54 (twenty years ago)

I like French cinema as well. lots of stuff doesn't get released here, which is frustrating. curious about Clean.. I don't think I get Assayas, I saw Demonlover and about walked out because it seemed like such an awful (though stylish) mess.

Huh.. I can't think of too many good American movies either.. I liked George Washington a lot. Did he see Team America? (Sorry, I am one of the few defenders of that on this board, but it's genius, I swear..) Syriana was pretty good, it didn't fill in all the blanks as if the audience didn't get it.

Um, when I saw History of Violence the audience laughed out loud quite a bit - there are some very, very funny moments in that film.

― dar1a g (daria g), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:54 (twenty years ago)

What happened to decent indie films?

They got replaced by documentaries

They get made and nobody distributes them.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:55 (twenty years ago)

I kept watching a comedy with a flaccid script like In Good Company, with that outstanding cast, and thinking, "Jesus, what Preston Sturges would have done with this..."

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 16:55 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, contemporary American film actors are at the mercy of the dumbed-down, TVized scripts that are produced by committee as never before. If you threw the alleged 'great' 21st-century films into a taste test with the acknowledged Past Masters, their status evaporates.

I don't think I get Assayas, I saw Demonlover and about walked out because it seemed like such an awful (though stylish) mess.

My thoughts exactly, but Demonlover is unlike any other film by him (a somewhat kink-oriented friend of mine loved it). OTOH I love his atypical Les Destinees Sentimentales -- an epic about a family making china in Limoges! -- which apparently marks me as a doddering Masterpiece Theatre-lover.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 17:07 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I liked the china-shop one too- at least I think I did, I saw it in France without Mike White to translate for me.

― Redd Harvest (Ken L), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 17:10 (twenty years ago)

Oh man, that's klassik! (louderb, yr new handle is a tribute to Hammett and Sanford & Son?)

And when US indies get raved over these days -- like Funny Ha Ha, which is smart and has nice performances but I'd never put with the cream of the crop -- I often just scratch my head.

The posturing and irony in A History of Violence is one reason I couldn't get wrapped up in it -- the 'subversiveness' was too blatant.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 17:12 (twenty years ago)

Which is why I love debating the merits of film; it's so much more affective than literature or music. To me Cronenberg subsumed those ironies you dismiss as leaden with a narrative drive I thought he'd abandoned post-Naked Lunch and a tonal control that had me drawing breaths.

(I love Dreamlovers and couldn't finish the Limoges film, so there ya go).

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 17:22 (twenty years ago)

*er, Demonlover

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 17:23 (twenty years ago)

The Mariah Carey thread is that-a-way!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 17:25 (twenty years ago)

I don't think Master and Commander is overrated one bit, but then again I'm surrounded by folk who don't rate it at all.

Sure Hollywood isn't producing what it was during it's various golden ages, but neither is anyone else as far as I can see. France certainly isn't, neither is the UK, Italy, Spain, Germany, or Japan.

All that seems to get released over here, Asian cinema wise, are part of the Tartan Asia Extreme series. Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance and Oldboy are all well and good, but I much prefer Taymor's Titus. Infernal Affairs is fine, but is it really better than something like Heat? I don't think so. Still, point me in the right direction. I don't rate 2046 either. And In the Mood for Love is the very definition of overrated in my book.

― Gukbe (lokar), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 17:26 (twenty years ago)

All that seems to get released over here, Asian cinema wise, are part of the Tartan Asia Extreme series... I don't rate 2046 either [or] In the Mood for Love is the very definition of overrated in my book.

Kiyoshi Kurosawa is by far the deepest and oddest of the J-horror purveyors, I think.

Aside from horror, Hou Hsiao-hsien? Apichatpong Weerasethakul? Stephen Chow? Tony Takitani?

Iran and the Middle East count as Asia too.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 17:34 (twenty years ago)

The Mariah Carey thread is that-a-way!

dude, I just heard it over the cafeteria muzak!

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 17:35 (twenty years ago)

xpost

Tsai Ming-liang, too...

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 17:36 (twenty years ago)

I have dutifully rented several Hou Hsiao-hsien films. I must say: they're excellent when you need to be reminded to clean the bathtub or vacuum the rug.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 17:36 (twenty years ago)

Stephen Chow is alright, if a bit goofy. I like Takeshi Kitano quite a bit as well. But I've seen nothing to convince me that the best films of the last 5-10 years are coming out of Asia. As I said, most of the Asian cinema we tend to get around here is Tartan Asia Extreme, and that includes the middle east.

As a qualifier, I would like to say I'm talking in broad generalizations, as is required in a discussion of this sort. And I'm certainly not saying that I haven't seen some excellent films from the region, I'm just saying that I don't see it counting for the majority of the best films of the last etc.. etc.

― Gukbe (lokar), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 17:47 (twenty years ago)

Alfred, I hear some of what you're saying re Hou, but even Flowers of Shanghai?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 17:51 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, that was ok – the only one which understood that his master Ozu allowed his characters the freedom to interact and not exist merely as atomized individuals frozen in single- frame shots of endless duration.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 17:54 (twenty years ago)

Kiyoshi Kurosawa is by far the deepest and oddest of the J-horror purveyors, I think.

OTM!!!

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:01 (twenty years ago)

Not that I'm (at all) on expert on J-Horror, I hate most of it except for his stuff.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:01 (twenty years ago)

These days we overrate good Hollywood films because the ratio of good to great films produced by Hollywood has dropped precipitously. I'm thinking specifically of Mystic River, Master & Commander, and Brokeback Mountain, all of which were produced by the truckload by smart hacks like Michael Curtiz, Henry Hathaway, John Farrow 60 years ago, none of which would have been greeted with hosannas.
-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (sotoal...), January 10th, 2006.

harumph. this is a half-truth. think of what 30s-50s hacks *couldn't* show though. i mean the whole fucking 'thing' w. 'brokeback' is that you couldn't get near that amount of gayness 40 years back (i'm told -- i haven't seen the film). also 'master and commander' -- a lot of the pleasure in that film comes from it's expensive naturalism that hollywood just didn't pay for back then.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 19:32 (twenty years ago)

There's an argument to be made, of course, that the way studio journeymen negotiated around censorship was more artful than what Brett Ratner and McG are allowed to do in these more 'enlightened' times.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 19:38 (twenty years ago)

'master and commander' -- a lot of the pleasure in that film comes from it's expensive naturalism that hollywood just didn't pay for back then.

I liked M & C as much as The Crimson Pirate and the original Clark Gable-Charles Laughton Mutiny On the Bounty, which is to say, quite a lot. The Hollywood sets of the earlier films didn't ruin them for me.

As for Brokeback, I like the film very much, as other posts have shown; but we should except with equanimity that Ang Lee is a smart hack a la Otto Preminger rather than branding him a revolutionary genius.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 19:43 (twenty years ago)

Geez, I don't think there's much interesting about that Bounty but Laughton. Franchot Tone is deadly, and Gable doesn't get to be the fun scalawag, but a solid man of integrity (blah).

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 20:04 (twenty years ago)

otto preminger wasn't a hack!!

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 20:06 (twenty years ago)

David Thomson's best line: "All Franchot had was tone."

People get all excited when a favorite is called a hack. It's hardly a pejorative, especially given the number of great films Preminger made (and a fair amount of bad ones too).

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 20:09 (twenty years ago)

So a hack is a director who lacks a "unifying vision"? Like William Wyler or Michael Winterbottom?

I wish Tarantino was a hack.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 20:24 (twenty years ago)

I'm a hack.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 20:25 (twenty years ago)

but we should except with equanimity that Ang Lee is a smart hack a la Otto Preminger rather than branding him a revolutionary genius.

This reeks of strawman, as I don't think anyone - and certainly no one that I've read at AGS - has hailed him or Brokeback as a revolutionary genius. What 'revolutionary' talk goes on about the gay cowboys eating pudding deals entirely with middle America's reception of spit-lube assfucking.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 20:27 (twenty years ago)

And Advise and Consent had the (probably not) first gay bar! Ang = Otto!

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 20:37 (twenty years ago)

Why do I feel like the only one who watches movies with patience any more?

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 21:27 (twenty years ago)

I feel like that too.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 21:31 (twenty years ago)

This reeks of strawman, as I don't think anyone - and certainly no one that I've read at AGS - has hailed him or Brokeback as a revolutionary genius.

"Revolutionary genius" is my interpretation of how middlebrow print and broadcast critics have described what Ang Lee's achievements add up to.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 22:03 (twenty years ago)

Then again, they're just speaking in Quote Whore -- of the Morning Show Mustache Clowns, wasn't it Siegel who decreed Crouching Tiger was one of the ALL-TIME greats? (then again Larry King seems to do that every 2 weeks)

I felt really patient during The New World, but suspect I wouldn't pass muster in the first hour of King Kong.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 22:08 (twenty years ago)

plus, Siegel and his mustachioed ilk voted Crash Best Screenplay during their Broadcast Award circle-jerk last night.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 22:19 (twenty years ago)

yr new handle is a tribute to Hammett and Sanford & Son
Yes. I even thought about spelling "Harvest" with two 't's but it looked a little weird. But now that you're onto me, I'm trading in Hammett for Antonioni.

― Redd Dessert (Ken L), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 22:21 (twenty years ago)

"The best ILE film thread of this or ANY year!"

― Redd Harvest (Ken L), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 22:22 (twenty years ago)

Sometimes I do feel like.. uh.. I am one among my friends who prefers ambiguity to things being neatly finished up, say.

best screenplay: Syriana

― dar1a g (daria g), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 22:24 (twenty years ago)

You would like John Sayles' Limbo, then.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 22:36 (twenty years ago)

I kept watching a comedy with a flaccid script like In Good Company, with that outstanding cast, and thinking, "Jesus, what Preston Sturges would have done with this..."

I liked this, actually. I'll have to see more Sturges films to see what you mean.

― Pete Scholtes (Pete Scholtes), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 01:32 (twenty years ago)

Lane has a point re: American movies being heavy (though I love Cast Away, Mulholland Dr., Walk the Line, The Village, and The Woodsman).

But has he seen Before Sunset, Serenity, Sideways, Spring Forward, School of Rock, Punch-Drunk Love, About a Boy, Meet the Parents, or Legally Blonde?

― Pete Scholtes (Pete Scholtes), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 01:33 (twenty years ago)

Meet the Parents, Legally Blonde, and Punk-Drunk Love are exactly what I'd find objectionable about American comedy at the moment, Pete.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 02:14 (twenty years ago)

Well, yeah, and somebody will pick the other half of that list and say the same thing. (I hesitate to ask, but what ties those three choices together?)

Either way, generalizing about over-seriousness in American movies is silly without at least panning the lighter ones. My best guess is that Lane hans't seen any of those, or probably most of these:

What's the hands-down no-messing funniest film of the century so far?

― Pete Scholtes (Pete Scholtes), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 02:28 (twenty years ago)

otto preminger's "Skiddoo" to thread

― Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 02:36 (twenty years ago)

Parents and Legally Blonde both really on overexplicit gross writing, hamhanded direction, and the considerable charm of their stars, without whom these films would seem even more excruciating.

Punch-Drunk Love, on the other hand, relies on a sort of secondhand archness - a cleverness borne more from other films - that frustrates both any attempt at sympathy and humor; the jokes short circuit before the audience hears them. A joke translated from Swedish into English subtitles, and not even that funny because the actors have been directed to deliver the joke as pseudo-human as possible. (Wes Anderson and Todd Solondz to thread).

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 03:25 (twenty years ago)

But haven't American comedies always been hamhanded and overexplicit? To me, Legally Bonde is a vast improvement over Born Yesterday (though I guess Meet the Parents isn't much of an improvement on The Heartbreak Kid).

― Pete Scholtes (Pete Scholtes), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 04:55 (twenty years ago)

Not stopping in mid-piece to drop all his arguments in the mighty light of Serenity robs his thesis of credibility.

― Ian in Brooklyn, Wednesday, 11 January 2006 06:16 (twenty years ago)

yeah because everyone here is totally on ratner's dick.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 09:41 (twenty years ago)

Just comparing 'hacks.' A term I find nearly as meaningless as 'rockist.'

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 14:22 (twenty years ago)

Hackist?

― Pete Scholtes (Pete Scholtes), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 21:32 (twenty years ago)

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