Why are Americans so Obese?

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Everyone blames carbs, but here's what I think.

1. portion sizes increased - calories per day have increased
2. americans concerned with what is eaten more than how much is eaten
3. americans smokeing and drinking less, using food as a drug instead
4. less physical activity
5. snacks are omnipresent and cheap
6. eating as a social activity and other reasons for eating when not hungry
7. eating foods for health benefits when not hungry (ie. bluberries antioxidant)

Latham Green (mike), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 04:50 (twenty years ago)

one word: sucrose.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 04:53 (twenty years ago)

wow, you should make a documentary

xpost

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 04:53 (twenty years ago)

"everyone blames carbs". Wuh?

Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 04:53 (twenty years ago)

8. ILX

cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 04:54 (twenty years ago)

3. americans smokeing and drinking less, using food as a drug instead

i definitely think americans should smoke and drink more. and use crack. that's what makes you skinny. to hell with this "food."

2 columbus circle in 1964 (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 04:54 (twenty years ago)

i wish snacks were omnipresent on my desk

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 04:56 (twenty years ago)

"When I drink beer, I don't feel the need to eat after 8pm"

Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 04:57 (twenty years ago)

I think it's because they are big-boned and have glandular disorders.

estela (estela), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 04:59 (twenty years ago)

americans are gremlins

cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 04:59 (twenty years ago)

9. see also: corn syrup, high fructose

kingfish pibb Xtra (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 05:00 (twenty years ago)

10. baconburgerdogs

j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 05:00 (twenty years ago)

haha i told my doctor i was doing yoga and he told me to stop because it was aggravating my herniated disk!

2 columbus circle in 1964 (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 05:01 (twenty years ago)

whoops, yeah, i meant fructose, fuckin' a.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 05:01 (twenty years ago)

fried skin

cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 05:01 (twenty years ago)

chubby chasers

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 05:03 (twenty years ago)

Trayce - you haven't noticed any low-carb products around lately?
Or special diets claiming carbs maketh one corpulant?

Latham Green (mike), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 05:09 (twenty years ago)

The bag of gummy worms I ate after my Taco Bell dinner contained only 30% of my daily carb intake - what's the big deal?

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 05:10 (twenty years ago)

crack, i'm tellin' ya...

http://thetrack.bostonherald.com/images/more_track/whitea01102006.jpg

2 columbus circle in 1964 (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 05:11 (twenty years ago)

Oprah's aging terribly :(

adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 05:12 (twenty years ago)

Trayce - you haven't noticed any low-carb products around lately?

More like 18 months ago maybe.

Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 05:15 (twenty years ago)

(I think Atkins is a complete crock, but thats an aside here)

Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 05:16 (twenty years ago)

America is being attacked! Where is TOMBOT?

ratty, Wednesday, 11 January 2006 05:32 (twenty years ago)

Having spent 3 weeks in Texas in November I can give your country three suggestions about how to weigh less:

1: Learn another way of cooking which isn't deep frying
2: Stop making portions big enough for 3 people rather than 1
3: Learn to appreciate other tastes apart from salt and sweet.

I thank you.

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 12:21 (twenty years ago)

Carlos D

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 12:37 (twenty years ago)

herpes makes you obese?

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 12:40 (twenty years ago)

I do think that big portions are a problem. Supermarkets always seem to sell large sized boxes/bags of food.


"herpes makes you obese?"

Depends if you let the other on top or not.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 12:42 (twenty years ago)

I agree with the portion size increase, though not just in the US. When I was a kid, the largest bottle of soda was one litre, the regular bag of crisps 200 grams and a regular bag of sweets 100 grams. Now most crisps are 300 grams, almost all sodas 1,5 litres, and you can't even find a bag of sweets less than 200 grams. I never ever buy sweets from the grocery store anymore, I'm not capable of eating 200 grams of sweets at once.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 13:05 (twenty years ago)

I think it's because they are big-boned and have glandular disorders.
-- estela (estelaisale...), January 11th, 2006.

haha!

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 13:10 (twenty years ago)

http://www.aaafoundation.org/images/eating.jpg

D.I.Y. U.N.K.L.E. (dave225.3), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 13:24 (twenty years ago)

http://www.psfk.com/images/hardeesmonsterburger.jpg

AaronK (AaronK), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 13:59 (twenty years ago)

that picture does not do it justice.

AaronK (AaronK), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 13:59 (twenty years ago)

whoops, yeah, i meant fructose, fuckin' a.

That's why I don't really buy packaged foods much anymore, manufacturers seem to put high fructose corn syrup in everything. And it probably is one of the worst things you could eat.

Lars and Jagger (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 14:05 (twenty years ago)

I never ever buy sweets from the grocery store anymore, I'm not capable of eating 200 grams of sweets at once.

Tuomas, you could just eat half a package and the rest later on in the week. :-) Not that I do this, I can never stop until the last piece is gone. :-(

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 14:07 (twenty years ago)

I kind of think it's better to eat small portions of full-fat, non-diet foods than large healpings of low-fat, low-carb , lite diet food because IT TASTES BETTER and it seems like if you adopt an attitdue of "I can eat as much of this as I like because its "lite" and "smart" food " it will just lead to trouble - portion sizes of cereal are like a cup , and I have the feeling most people don't eat a cup of cereal at a time - that would be a small cereal bowl

Latham Green (mike), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 16:20 (twenty years ago)

http://www.toshistation.com/skycap/images/IMG_5166.JPG

FRIED TWINKIE TO THREAD.

don weiner (don weiner), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 16:22 (twenty years ago)

MSG Cheesegarden

detoxyDancer (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 16:28 (twenty years ago)

Good lord. I was shcoked the day I learnedsome people deep fry their TURKEYS at THanksgiving.

Latham Green (mike), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 16:35 (twenty years ago)

But they're goooooood.

jocelyn (Jocelyn), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 16:37 (twenty years ago)

http://www.kozyshack.com/

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 16:38 (twenty years ago)

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 16:39 (twenty years ago)

This isn't the first time I've seen you pimping pudding, Beth.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 16:40 (twenty years ago)

Deep-fried turkey is awesome. It's not like they're breaded or anything, and it actually doesn't taste too oily or greasy.

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 16:41 (twenty years ago)

jaymc, I have my rep to maintain. Holy shit! New flavor!

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 16:43 (twenty years ago)

It's not the breading that is the problem in deep frying things. I mean it doesn't help but it's not what's gonna kill ya.

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 16:45 (twenty years ago)

we did this this xmas. very moist. i wonder what the fat levels compare with to roasted turkey.

Miss Misery xox (MissMiseryTX), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 16:49 (twenty years ago)

5.9 oz of fried turkey

Calories 383
% Daily Value*
Total Fat 21g 51%
Cholesterol 129mg
Sodium 1116mg
Total Carbohydrate 1g
Protein 45g

roasted:
calories 200 from fat 40
total fat 5gm
sat. fat 1 gm

higher yes. . . but geez the whole thanksgiving meal's over the top. we had roasted and fried and I ate more of the roasted b/c I personally like my meat drier.

I wish I had already uploaded my xmas pictures and I could post the one of my brother carefully lowering the bird into the 3 gallon pot of boiling oil. It was dramatic.

Miss Misery xox (MissMiseryTX), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 16:54 (twenty years ago)

We're a fat country obsessed with being thin. How's that for a kick in the pants?

mamu, Wednesday, 11 January 2006 16:57 (twenty years ago)

The deep fried turkey thing seems to exist due to the myth that turkey is dry...you can make it without drying it out, very easily (of course if you prefer it dryer then don't bother, obviously!). 99% of the reason why "Americans are so obese" is because Americans don't know how to cook.

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 17:02 (twenty years ago)

i blame the German pop group Let's Fat, the messages in their music encourage U.S. teenagers to binge on junk food.

HAKKEBOFFER (eman), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 17:06 (twenty years ago)

and they make you fat. and they are in EVERYTHING. almost.

scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 23 April 2006 18:05 (twenty years ago)

that stuff is poison, you're right

if you happened to be, say, a working single mother of two, I can see how it might be a little hard to find time and energy to invest into exercise

None of those hurdles are huge ones -- you can get around them with a little effort

I'm not quite understanding why you qualify these with "a little." It's very hard to change habits! It's often very hard to find time to exercise if you work all day and have a commute and have to cook dinner and run errands and clean around the house and everything else! I am often completely exhausted at the end of the day and I just have myself to look after. Not to mention, where do you go to exercise? Now, if you live in an somewhat unsafe neighborhood, or even a relatively safe one, do you go out walking or running by yourself after dark? I certainly think twice about doing that. You pay to join a gym? How do you find the money and the time? When do you drive there? How do you schedule that when you have kids to take care of when you get home from work? It really isn't easy at all.

dar1a g (daria g), Sunday, 23 April 2006 18:21 (twenty years ago)

i'm no saint, by the way. i have my lapses big time. i have to feed two kids every day and i do the best i can. i'm looking at these peanut butter ritz bits crackers on the shelf and i want to throw them in the trash now. along with all the usual crap in them, they have something called "hydrogenated rapeseed oil" in them. i don't know what the hell that is, but i don't want it in my cracker!

scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 23 April 2006 18:30 (twenty years ago)

not that i don't appreciate the maximum crunch that processed rapeseed oil brings to a cracker. i do, i do.

scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 23 April 2006 18:32 (twenty years ago)

Scott OTM about the HFCS being in everything. Almost every single thing in the freezer section (even just plain frozen vegs, because it keeps down the ice crystals), nearly every baked good (because it makes things brown nicely and keeps them moist and adds to the shelf life). Damn that Earl Butz.

Jaq (Jaq), Sunday, 23 April 2006 18:33 (twenty years ago)

Rapeseed = canola, but hydrogenated = v. bad.

Jaq (Jaq), Sunday, 23 April 2006 18:34 (twenty years ago)

yeah, i'm well-versed now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed

scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 23 April 2006 18:40 (twenty years ago)

says it's mostly used for animal feed in europe. not people feed.

scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 23 April 2006 18:41 (twenty years ago)

the grocery store i work for is not allowed to sell anything with trans fats or hydrogenated oils. FYI!

i've dreamt of rubies! (Mandee), Sunday, 23 April 2006 18:46 (twenty years ago)

I don't really know anyone who uses canola at home in Europe.

suzy (suzy), Sunday, 23 April 2006 19:30 (twenty years ago)

(x). americans are not chewing enough.

S. (Sébastien Chikara), Monday, 24 April 2006 05:16 (twenty years ago)

Canola seems to be very popular in Australia for cooking oil. But I dont think - even in our junkfood - that we have very many trans fats or hydrogenated anything or high fructose corn syrup. I'd need to do some googling but I'm reasonably confident even things like Coke, Maccas, fried and processed foods are made with regular sugar, vegetable oils, and so on. Even MSG is right out nowdays.

So that may explain why our Mcdonalds healthy choices stuff, for example, really *are* reasonably healthy.

Trayce (trayce), Monday, 24 April 2006 05:35 (twenty years ago)

Comparatively speaking, anyhow. I mean sugar and fats are still bad.

Trayce (trayce), Monday, 24 April 2006 05:36 (twenty years ago)

I assume that a lot of places/foods use the hydrogenated oils, unless specifically labelled otherwise/the shop has a specifically stated policy

just for profit/convenience, since the oil lasts however many times longer/it gives foods however many times as long a shelflife

yeah, I just assume, now, that most fish & chip shop fryers, etc, use the hydrogenated oils, etc. I mean, they probably keep using the extra-long"life" stuff twice as long as recommended, as well, so, haha

why wouldn't they? there hasn't been enough of an uproar about it, here, yet

I think, maybe, marks & spencer or someone has said they won't have hydrogenated oils in any of their foods, which is fine, if you can afford to do all your foodshopping there

RJG (RJG), Monday, 24 April 2006 05:52 (twenty years ago)

gbx said what I would've said, except I'd have also thrown in that it isn't really that difficult to get incidental exercise either--park further away from the door of your destination, walk to the 7-11 if at all possible, etc etc. Obviously if you're needing a massive lifestyle overhaul and are vastly obese these small measures aren't going to turn you into a Bowflex ad overnight but any little bit helps and it's kind of amazing the amount of people who refuse to acknowledge this. nabisco, the reason my question was phrased "meanly" is because it was basically the third time I asked you the question and the straw-woman you keep invoking is neither representative of anyone you are discussing this with, nor is it necessarily an accurate representation of the greater issue in America.

Our culture is basically completely set up at this point to make it seem impossible to live a healthy lifestyle if you weren't put on that path at a very young age, that's true, but it's completely deceptive except for in the most extreme of cases. I was glad you kind of went with the term "a little effort"!

wtf with that show Honey We're Killing The Kids, btw.

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Monday, 24 April 2006 19:21 (twenty years ago)

turning into a bowflex ad overnight - scary or awesome?!

geeta (geeta), Monday, 24 April 2006 19:30 (twenty years ago)

Canola oil is really pretty good for you; it's a monounsaturated (like olive oil, which is king among healthy fats) and it's got benefits in regulating triglycerides, improving insulin sensitivity, and potentially preventing stroke / heart failure.

remy (x Jeremy), Monday, 24 April 2006 19:37 (twenty years ago)

Also: it's like the '70s on this thread, with the anti-fat hate. Fats ARE NOT UNIFORMLY BAD FOR YOU. They keep you alive! Mono- and poly- unsaturateds should compose a fairly decent percentage (maybe +20%!) of your caloric intake during the day, with the real goal being avoidance of trans- and saturated fats and the increased intake of whole grain fibers and vegetable/fruit matter.

remy (x Jeremy), Monday, 24 April 2006 19:41 (twenty years ago)

wtf with that show Honey We're Killing The Kids, btw.

those aged images are so ridiculous. and potentially traumatizing for the poor kids.

Miss Misery xox (MissMiseryTX), Monday, 24 April 2006 19:49 (twenty years ago)

EAT OLIVES EVERY DAY

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 24 April 2006 19:50 (twenty years ago)

the kids don't see their 40-year-old pictures.
they just do that to have the little gameshow faux-melodrama segment and to scare the parents into actually playing along. They got this one little cavity-ridden sugar freak to give up mini muffins for homemade carrot cake and apples, though, after he threw up his vegetables at the dinner table on day one.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 24 April 2006 19:52 (twenty years ago)

that was like the oh whoa wtf moment for me, where they have some of those kids so inured to hot dogs and twinkies and whatever else they want that some cooked carrots & bok choi come right the fuck back up outta the poor bastards.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 24 April 2006 19:54 (twenty years ago)

xpost to Ally

Yeah, totally, I agree that it's not that much effort that's required. But then again "a little effort" is all it would take for people to do any number of noble things -- be healthy, read more, spend more time with their kids, work harder at the office, whatever. I mean, it's "a little effort" in a pile of competing priorities. So I guess what I'm trying to defend against here is the idea that people are just being lazy and unwilling to put forth that tiny bit of effort. I feel like we should at least keep in mind that lots of people have their time and energy stretched out a bit as it is (having kids must be a huge change on this front!), and so I can at least understand why it would be hard for them to make lifestyle changes.

But yeah, like I said, that's not so much about people like me or most of the people here, and much more about that example "single working mother" -- which for the record I don't think is that unrepresentative a role in America! Oh and just to be clear: I'm not saying this stuff is the root of the problem. The roots of the problem seem to be systemic stuff about modern food and modern lifestyles, stuff in the world around us that we more and more have to take conscious steps to adapt away from.

Anyway yeah, I'm not trying to say that it's so hard and arduous -- and really, doing the opposite with "simple easy steps" cheerleading is probably better for helping people get stuff done. I just don't want to underplay the difficulty of it. (I'd feel like a hypocrite, too: I'm certainly not obese, but I don't think I'd find it very easy to really change my diet and exercise level! And I'm unmarried, childless, economically stable, and all that other stuff that should make it easier for me than anyone.)

nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 24 April 2006 19:56 (twenty years ago)

the kids don't see their 40-year-old pictures.

I'm sure they watch the show once it airs! What if some impressionable little kid gets set in his mind that he's going to grow up to look like an unemployed pedophile. His self-image could be wrecked for life!

Miss Misery xox (MissMiseryTX), Monday, 24 April 2006 19:58 (twenty years ago)

And ha, yeah, that's not to say that there isn't another end of the spectrum where whole families of people just eat crap for no discernable reason -- upper-middle-class families with stay-home parents who could tackle this as easily as anything.

nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 24 April 2006 19:59 (twenty years ago)

hot dogs are yummy.

Miss Misery xox (MissMiseryTX), Monday, 24 April 2006 20:00 (twenty years ago)

Did they show Jamie Oliver's "Jamie's School Dinners" in the US? It was rather fascinating. At first obviously he was hard up against not only a measly budget for food, but both school cooks and the kids who were vehement about their pizza and chips.

Eventually though, thru patient food education and try try again, he got them all eating well. The scary part really was one family who volunteered, at home, to switch to a normal healthy diet of fruit/veg/meats and no junk. Within days, one of the kids labelled as ADDish was all calm and happy. WITHIN DAYS. What in gods name is in the crap kids eat that this suggested it turns them into asthmatic/ADD/allergic messes?

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 02:57 (twenty years ago)

Hydrogenated oils are linked to asthma! and all that sugar and corn syrup will make anyone a mess. this thread has renewed my vigilance with my own kids. i gotta tell you, it's SO damned easy to fall into the crap trap.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 03:11 (twenty years ago)

They couldn't show that Jamie's School Dinners on US tv, he swore way too much.

svend (svend), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 03:31 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

1) My wife pointed out to me the other day the fact that buffets are "all you can eat" which has a different meaning from "eat til you're satisified," or even "eat as much as you want."

2) I saw an onion personal ad from a young woman whose quote was "I'm into exercising and eating healthy but I also like to relax"

Hurting 2, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 22:14 (eighteen years ago)

w/r/t (1): many buffets now carry the slogan "all you care to eat"

river wolf, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 22:19 (eighteen years ago)

"If you should choose to eat a variety of things until you are reasonably full rather than ordering an entree, we offer that service" two for one Tuesday at the Golden China #1 Super Buffet.

Abbott, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 22:20 (eighteen years ago)

"Waste Not Want Not" Puritan ideal meets lassiex-faire Capitalist cut-throat concept = fat, confused kids

sexyDancer, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 22:24 (eighteen years ago)

hurting, stop reading the personals, i doubt your wife would like that.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 22:28 (eighteen years ago)

I was reading the Onion once at work and an older customer came in. She saw my monitor and told me, "Oh, the Onion, how fantastic! My son met a wonderful woman on that site and they're getting married in the spring!" When she left, she told me, "I hope you meet someone wonderful!" I'm pretty sure she thought it was just a personals site. Made me smile.

Abbott, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 22:31 (eighteen years ago)

Years ago this boss/supervisor woman at this place I was temping at made the sweet gesture of taking me and these other guys who were working on this project there out to lunch. She chose a buffet place(N.B., she herself was obese).

We're basically a gaggle of scrawny college students, so we repeatedly go up to the buffet and heap up our plates with whatever is on offer. At one point, we observe a guy go up to the buffet thing, pile some stuff on his plate, begin to eat it as he's walking back to his seat...and actually finish it before he has a chance to sit down, thereby inspiring him to make yet another run back to the buffet.

I always think of that moment when I think of Americans, obesity.

dell, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 22:46 (eighteen years ago)

That's kind of poetic, like a fatty perpetual motion machine.

Abbott, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 22:47 (eighteen years ago)

would marry this onion girl

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/wdyt_photo6.article.jpg

jergïns, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 22:47 (eighteen years ago)

sexyual personaae

sexyDancer, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 22:57 (eighteen years ago)

dell -

Stop spying on me.

Oilyrags, Wednesday, 12 September 2007 02:07 (eighteen years ago)

three years pass...

via James Wolcott, Movie Dialogue That Sounds Ironic in Retrospect:

"It's one thing I envy you Americans--you're all so thin. How do you manage it?"
--Juliet Mills to Jack Lemmon in Billy Wilder's Avanti! (1972)

the gay bloggers are onto the faggot tweets (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:30 (fourteen years ago)

"cigarettes my boy!"

Latham Green, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:31 (fourteen years ago)

"I'm into exercising and eating healthy but I also like to relax"

That's like saying "I'm into laughing and dancing but I also like to relax."

DSMOS has arrived (kenan), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:35 (fourteen years ago)

usually "i'm into exercising" in a personal means "I want to have sex with a lean person "

Latham Green, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:36 (fourteen years ago)

"I'm a bit of a control-freak health-nut, but if you get me off, I tend to loosen up a bit."

DSMOS has arrived (kenan), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:37 (fourteen years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bomkgXeDkE

Latham Green, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:38 (fourteen years ago)

"I'm into exercising and eating healthy but I also enjoy some of my life"

the gay bloggers are onto the faggot tweets (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:39 (fourteen years ago)

"hi mom"

S'cool bro, I only cried a little (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:46 (fourteen years ago)

death gulp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uArqI-LHXU

scott seward, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:47 (fourteen years ago)

lol As if "more ice please" is ever a problem. They put as much ice into drinks as they can, because it means less soda.

DSMOS has arrived (kenan), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 18:22 (fourteen years ago)


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