political correctness, the war on xmas, & self-perpetuated outrage

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reading the old political correctness thread i realized how the 90s p.c. gone mad bullshit is the original tree which fox news cut the branch of last years successful (?? it got republican scandals off the news for at least 10 minutes every hour & was a big hit in rural s.c. according to fam there) war on xmas hype from -- pluck an isolated example of a ditzy, well-meaning suggestion (plano texas! plano texas! plano texas!), shoehorn into entirely made-up stalinist orwellian narrative, wait for everybody (teachers, civil servants, etc) to swallow the hook, decide not to rock the boat by allowing kids to wear red & green clothes or talk about santa claus, then recycle their confused bullshit as p.c. gone mad/war on xmas/etc etc in every wsj op-ed and fox news ALERT for the next 6 weeks - its like if orson welles used 1938 hysteria as proof that martians existed!!! im still young enough to remember this as an early-to-mid-90s phenomenon, all that un-p.c. bullshit right-wing ire fermented and then upheld as an example of itself... but when did it start?? what immediately came to mind was the red scare shit in the 50s, concerned citizens snitching on "commie" neighbors cuz they had red curtains or a community garden or whatever, but while that mistaken well-meaning bullshit was born from a construct there were still serious consequences to being mccarthyist dupe which saying "happy holidays" or changing mankind to "humankind" absolutely doesnt have. yeah so basically -- whats the origin of the concept of misleading the general public into providing examples of persecution you can use to mislead the general public into providing examples of persecution you can use to, etc

― ,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 15:57 (nineteen years ago)

it all begins with the master:

http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/features/columnists/61473

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:03 (nineteen years ago)

I always thought that Ed Anger was satire!

― filled the fjords of my brain (kate), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:09 (nineteen years ago)

ok hold up you know i dont mean just right wing un-p.c. demagogues, im specifically referring to the dissemination of misinformation to fluff out your own bullshit - kinda like when you lie about something ('oh yeah honey i was just at the market on 4th street...') and than frantically working to make that lie a reality - except in this case the people youre lying to are doing the work for you

― ,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:09 (nineteen years ago)

haha xpost - ed anger is anti-creationist now!! a couple weeks ago he was getting red-faced about the erosion of separation of church & state

― ,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:10 (nineteen years ago)

of course the guy who originally created him died in 04 i think and its been a pale shadow since

― ,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:12 (nineteen years ago)

this is true. but the spirit lives on.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:14 (nineteen years ago)

i'm not sure what the exact question is, but the whole pc backlash came out of campus activism of the late '80s (well, and by extension of the '60s and '70s, but reaching an apogee with the widespread adoption of women's studies programs, black studies, protections for gay and lesbian students, etc. -- the whole identity politics movement). the first major treatise i remember on it was dinesh d'souza's "illiberal education", altho of course conservatives had been carping about these things for years (e.g. the princeton alumni group that sam alito just can't remember joining). coincided with the rise of talk radio, of course, and followed soon after by the "angry white male" media frenzy and the 1994 republican takeover. so i think it was a lot of related things that had been bubbling for years all coming to a head at once.

but that may not be what you're asking.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:00 (nineteen years ago)

i think the "stories of persecution" thing came from people in the majority culture realizing that they could adopt the language and political tactics of the minority cultures to portray themselves as victims and access the political capital accorded to victimhood. it was a smart tactical move -- if also 100 percent pure bullshit.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:03 (nineteen years ago)

nah i know all that shit, really its hard to articulate what im asking but essentially -

1. bill oreilly devotes 2/3rds of his show to how the liberals have declared war on xmas and falsely claims kids arent allowed to say 'merry christmas' in schools anymore

2. mrs smith, a young non-political/moderate 3rd grade teacher from bamaville south carolina goes to her class the next day and takes down xmas decorations/rewrites the school play/whatever so her kids dont get in trouble w/ the liberal p.c. police as outlined by oreilly

3. oreilly hears about the incident in bamaville s.c. and dramatizes it on his show - 'theyre taking CHILDRENS DRAWINGS of SANTA CLAUS and THROWING THEM in the GARBAGE!! you arent even ALLOWED to speak the word CHRISTMAS!!!'

4. ms brown, a h.s. teacher in assfuck oklahoma, hears about the bamaville incident on oreilly and decides to follow suit so as not to rock the boat

5. oreilly hears about assfuck oklahoma

6. lather, rinse, repeat

― ,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:08 (nineteen years ago)

and you can substitute the same for 90s p.c. culture - the reason why 99% of the examples of political correctness gone mad sound like right wing parodies of p.c. is cuz theyre done by ignorant, scared people who took that rhetoric as a literal standard

― ,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:09 (nineteen years ago)

don't underestimate the role of lawyers in all this. corporate (or school board, or university) lawyers get paid to always assume that someone's going to sue about something, and they encourage mindless literal adherence to unambiguous rules out of fear that allowing even reasonable discretion will give someone wiggle room for liability.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:18 (nineteen years ago)

Spitzer just fucked up Sony BMG and Warner for this last year! You pay a radio station enough money to play a song 30 times a day and next thing you know people are buying the album.

What I'm getting at is that this is a recent invention, I think, because of mass media, and it can take a lot of forms besides "outrage," you can blow up anything if you keep covering it enough. Advertising works, surprise surprise? Creating a demand and an idea where it didn't exist before by repeating the same shit over and over until it becomes fact.

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:19 (nineteen years ago)

well i think that often provides the germ of it for oreilly & co to jump on gulf of tonkin style but im more interested in their overreporting to ppl who arent real political idealogues (high viewership #s for foxnews et al seem to overlook the fact that if theres one asshole rightwinger in a household of 5 or an extended family of 30 youll have that many ppl who wouldnt normally give a fuck relying on it for actual hard news - if youre a schoolteacher and you hear oreilly talk about new liberal p.c. rules for elementaries youll either choose to defy them or follow what you think is the rules, adding yourself to the ranks of what was a non-existant liberal p.c. mafia)

― ,,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:24 (nineteen years ago)

sorry that was an xpost w/ tombot - yeah creating a demand is right

― ,,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:25 (nineteen years ago)

i kind of don't think o'reilly & co. have much influence on what teachers or school boards or whoever do. the influence is more in creating and nurturing a subculture of people primed to be outraged, so that when their kid comes home from school and mentions that they're having a nondenominational "holiday party" the next day, you've got a parent who's like, "omg the war on christmas!"

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:29 (nineteen years ago)

It's creating a demand by using advertising's favorite method- fear.

― laurence kansas (lawrence kansas), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:31 (nineteen years ago)

do you smell bad? are you losing your hair? is your children's school run by america-haters?

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:33 (nineteen years ago)

nah dude my mom works as a teachers assistant at a school in s.c. and shes told me bout like half a dozen confused 23 yr old teachers fresh off the boat who think that liberal p.c. totalitarianism is actually as pervasive and smothering as outlined on fox news and they better step in line or get fired - none of em actually been examples yet but they could easily be, theyre sayin shit stupid as like 'shh! dont say "christmas!!' and whatnot

― ,,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:37 (nineteen years ago)

well i guess with tens of millions of people watching fox and listening to limbaugh some of 'em are bound to be teachers. i try not to think about that.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:49 (nineteen years ago)

yeah thats what im tryna say, these ppl arent right wing, they arent left wing, they just wanna keep their jobs, and theyre being lied to & manipulated & doing what theyre indirectly told & then used as examples of something that doesnt exist

― ,,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:51 (nineteen years ago)

but fortunately it doesn't have a lot of real-world impact. a couple of cases get blown out of proportion, fall apart on closer analysis, everybody goes on w/their lives and the outrage machine looks for new things to be outraged about.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:55 (nineteen years ago)

well the boycotts affect alot of local businesses too, for example @ my moms school now they only eats at chic-fil-a on field trips now cuz the lady in charge of planning em says theyre the only place who said merry xmas instead of happy holidays

― ,,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:58 (nineteen years ago)

I called in to a Talk Radio show about five years ago, because there was talk of forcing public school kids to recite the Lord's Prayer every morning and I was all like, "What's wrong with these parents who love God so much that they're not praying with their kids BEFORE school?" and the host called me a Trotskyite and hung up.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:02 (nineteen years ago)

what does that have to do with the stuff we're talking about

― ,,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:04 (nineteen years ago)

fine, delete it. Sorry.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:06 (nineteen years ago)

what's depressing about that is that these TEACHERS aren't sharp or questioning enough to say "er... wait a minute." and people who don't teach their students to find facts, analyze texts, etc, breed adults who don't know how to think.

― danielle the animal steel (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:06 (nineteen years ago)

i mean ppl criticize big bad academia all the time but a lot of what's taught is just really useful bullshit-decoding stuff.

― danielle the animal steel (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:11 (nineteen years ago)

yeah it fucks with me alot now when i see/hear blatant horseshit and its like, wait, im not even that smart but this set off my b.s. detector hardcore why is everybody else pretending its true!!!

― ,,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:13 (nineteen years ago)

these TEACHERS

Why would you expect people who start out making less than military recruits but who have 10x as many bills to pay to be sharp or questioning - if you're shrap and/or questioning you wouldn't put yourself in that situation

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:14 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, that's not an across-the-board assault on the teaching profession, just a specific indictment on people who buy this o'reilly nonsense out of fear without really thinking about it.

― danielle the animal steel (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:19 (nineteen years ago)

and i think people SHOULD be sharp/questioning; the people who are are on the right track but it should be something everyone's armed with.

― danielle the animal steel (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:22 (nineteen years ago)

Wait, aren't most new schoolteachers freshly brainwashed by the Elitist Anti-American Pro-Gay Secular Progressive Liberal Academic Establishment?

― Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:25 (nineteen years ago)

hahahaha

― danielle the animal steel (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:25 (nineteen years ago)

Wait, aren't most new schoolteachers freshly brainwashed by the Elitist Anti-American Pro-Gay Secular Progressive Liberal Academic Establishment?

Not if they went to one of those progressive colleges where they've recently tried to introduce intelligent design as legitimate science. Not all colleges are magical places for experimenting with lesbianism / Marxism.

But to the question at hand, let's get all Sociology 101:

The Thomas Theorem: "If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences."

Does O'Reilly realize his function in this self-fulfilling prophecy? Is he clever enough to have engineered this as a strategy, or he just another victim of the Thomas theorem? Does it matter?

― elmo, patron saint of nausea (allocryptic), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:35 (nineteen years ago)

high viewership #s for foxnews

you do understand that about 2-2.5 million people watch O'Reilly, which is fewer than the number who watch the News Hour on PBS, and about 10% of the viewership of the network newscasts?

O'Reilly and ilk's goals are to influence the "mainstream media" dialogue

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:36 (nineteen years ago)

Does David Horowitz's big crusade of "INDOCTRINATION IN OUR UNIVERSITIES BY RADICAL LEFTISTS" thing fit into any of this?

― kingfish kuribo's shoe (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:43 (nineteen years ago)

only in the sense that it is equally imaginary and pathetic. did you read about the hearing they had about that in pennsylvania? the "indoctrination" hype basically got laffed out of the room.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

and i seriously, seriously doubt that many businesses saw much economic impact from "merry xmas" boycotts. (an orlly was at pains to say he wasn't calling for boycotts, becz he thinks they're communist or something)

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:54 (nineteen years ago)

apparently the term for this is a causality loop!

― ,,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

it was on star trek alot

― ,,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:03 (nineteen years ago)

but in star trek they get stuck in them and can't get out. in our world, they tend to poop out pretty quick as soon as anyone starts paying critical attention to them. i betcha the 'war on xmas' hype will be a lot less next year, because it was pretty played out this year and people will be a lot quicker to discredit any claims of 'oppression.' which will lead to fewer reported incidents, which oreilly and gibson will explain by claiming that they have beaten back the atheist hordes and rescued baby jesus.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

they will assassinate keith olbermann

― ,,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

and replace him w/evil, bearded keith olbermann

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:11 (nineteen years ago)

the war-on-xmas floggers be back next year -- mark my words. mr. o'reilly won't shut up about this, the same way that lou dobbs won't shut up about illegals.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:14 (nineteen years ago)

lou dobbs will shut up when i put my fist in his mouth

― ,,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:15 (nineteen years ago)

Heavens, yes. This is why I like my parents' current church: the Christmas Eve sermon cast a gimlet eye on the "war on Christmas" and included the line "Personally, I've never felt the need to have my spiritual choices justified by a 15-yr-old behind the counter at WalMart, but maybe some people do." My expectations from small-town churches are so very low that I'm unusually gratified just to hear someone make sense.

― Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:16 (nineteen years ago)

i betcha the 'war on xmas' hype will be a lot less next year, because it was pretty played out this year and people will be a lot quicker to discredit any claims of 'oppression

and the "oppression" thing wasn't real -- it's not like anyone's gonna get the anti-defamation league and the ACLU to stand outside a wal-mart with picket signs cuz there's a santa claus in there. americans of all kinds are USED to christmas... we're beyond getting worked up over it, although some of us are a little tired of being bombarded with a "national" holiday that has nothing to do with us. that said, "happy holidays" is just a NICE, warm, inclusive thing to say, one that acknowledges that other cultures exist. it's weird that there's so much fear attached to that concept.

― danielle the animal steel (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:18 (nineteen years ago)

oh, this is just the latest "outrage" that the religious right has gotten their undies in a twist over. i think that it owes as much to THAT as to the 90s "anti-PC" hoohaw. go to google and type in "secular humanism" (the big religious right boogeyman from the 80s) -- and even THAT shit has a history with roots long before the 80s.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:23 (nineteen years ago)

thanks for that

― ,,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:27 (nineteen years ago)

Skipping 56 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

The thing about that cover is I was wondering when they colorized that movie, and then I realized it already was in color, just rendered in a really dismal pallete (at least the print they showed on MST3K).

― nate p. (natepatrin), Sunday, 12 November 2006 04:33 (eighteen years ago)

B-b-b-b-ut, the ACLU don't give a hoot if you proclaim God as king this holiday season. They'd be tickled, I'm sure. However, the moment you harness the government to proclaim it for you, they will object. Strenuously, too.

― Aimless (Aimless), Sunday, 12 November 2006 05:45 (eighteen years ago)

Are you tired of the annual ritual of Christmas tree burnings and Nativity scene demolition?

where the FUCK does this happen?!?!

― something less threatening (heywood), Sunday, 12 November 2006 06:19 (eighteen years ago)

Everywhere, after Christmas.

― nickn (nickn), Sunday, 12 November 2006 06:39 (eighteen years ago)

tired of burning and demolishing shit??! never!

― rrrobyn, the situation (rrrobyn), Sunday, 12 November 2006 06:58 (eighteen years ago)

I saw something on one of the cable newses (cnn or msnbc) that said "christmas is back!" because walmart will indeed be instructing greeters to say merry xmas. BACK.

― teeny (teeny), Sunday, 12 November 2006 13:09 (eighteen years ago)

Are you tired of the annual ritual of Christmas tree burnings and Nativity scene demolition?

that would actually be the funnest christmas i've had in a long time -- if such things actually OCCURRED.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 12 November 2006 15:08 (eighteen years ago)

Are you tired of the annual ritual of Christmas tree burnings and Nativity scene demolition?

http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=tbn:Zigly64GDgLg5M:http://www.fast-rewind.com/diner3.jpg

― i am not a nugget (stevie), Sunday, 12 November 2006 16:08 (eighteen years ago)

let me see if i can embiggen that pic

http://www.fast-rewind.com/diner3.jpg

― i am not a nugget (stevie), Sunday, 12 November 2006 16:09 (eighteen years ago)

Hold on just one cotton pickin' minute. Evangelicals are meant to be against christmas because there is no scriptural basis for it.

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 12 November 2006 16:11 (eighteen years ago)

The Bible's only literally true when it suits them, innit?

― Brian Emo (noodle vague), Sunday, 12 November 2006 16:20 (eighteen years ago)

OMFG -- maybe fox has a point!

fuck christmas, from the folks who brought you "fuckthesouth.com".

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 12 November 2006 16:32 (eighteen years ago)

Christmas sucks arse. As an athiest I resent having to listen to carols all the time and and bollocks about babies and mangers.

― Darramouss :D (Darramouss ftw), Sunday, 12 November 2006 16:38 (eighteen years ago)

http://cdbaby.name/s/c/scrooge.jpg

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Sunday, 12 November 2006 17:13 (eighteen years ago)

Bah Humbug!

― Darramouss :D (Darramouss ftw), Sunday, 12 November 2006 17:14 (eighteen years ago)

Hold on just one cotton pickin' minute. Evangelicals are meant to be against christmas because there is no scriptural basis for it.

Can you elaborate on this?

― researching ur life (grady), Sunday, 12 November 2006 18:32 (eighteen years ago)

Shitfuck no, baby and manger songs are OK by me. Last year, the place I worked started playing Xmas songs Nov. 1, but the Muzak station only played secular Xmas songs. I counted–there were 14 different versions of "Frosty the Snowman." Goddamn "Rocking Around the Christmas Tree." A bunch of new songs about wishing they could be home, or how good it is to be home. Also, a bazillion songs about shopping. "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen" would've been one sublime respite.

― Abbott (Abbott), Sunday, 12 November 2006 19:14 (eighteen years ago)

Heeeeeere Coooomes Suzy Snowflake.....

― researching ur life (grady), Sunday, 12 November 2006 21:23 (eighteen years ago)

I will give props to "I Want a Hippopotamus for Christmas," tho. I like to sing it in a Ben Stein style.

― Abbott (Abbott), Sunday, 12 November 2006 21:27 (eighteen years ago)

xxpost

Jehovah's Witnesses certainly are anti-Christmas. After all, it's a pagan festival disguised as a Christian one, and the Bible gives no indication as to the time of Jesus' birth. If there are other Evangelical sects that use the same logic it wouldn't surprise me at all. Any speculation as to whether they are simply too mean to buy presents would be inappropriate.

― Brian Emo (noodle vague), Sunday, 12 November 2006 23:01 (eighteen years ago)

Most reformed churches believe in justification by faith alone and hold the scriptures as paramount and true. Several times during the history of the reformed church there have been attempts to ban christmas and, to a lesser extent, easter celebrations as there is no basis for them in scripture. Things like nativity scenes, being graven images are a complete no no. Of course most churches bend to the fact that people don't like their parties taken away from them.

Most US conservatives are part of some form of reformed church.

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 12 November 2006 23:07 (eighteen years ago)

I also find it faintly amusing that - as I think someone pointed out or quoted above last year - Christians have always bemoaned the crass commercial sell sell buy buy!!!! aspect of Xmas. And now they WANT stores to be all "hey Jesus in the house y0!" in Walmart?

YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH, NOBCHEESES.

― Trayce (trayce), Sunday, 12 November 2006 23:08 (eighteen years ago)

And guess who’s stealing Christmas, according to Gibson. Go on — guess. “A cabal of secularists, so-called humanists, trial lawyers, cultural relativists, and liberal, guilt-wracked Christians — not just Jewish people.” (Emphasis mine. Pure, unadulterated anti-semitism, his.) A cabal? Are you fucking kidding me? Could we try to be a little more fucking original with our Jew-hating?

roffles from fuckchristmas.com

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Monday, 13 November 2006 01:59 (eighteen years ago)

My neighbors belong to this ultra-fundie sect, i believe its an offshoot of the Church of Christ or something, and the dad/patiarch is like a leading preacher in their circuit, they have their own church in some shopping center somewhere, etc....but anyway, they do not celebrate ANYTHING nor do they allow their children (all 9 of them, many with their own kids--they really believe in "be fruitful and multiply"!) to go to public sporting events (they produce "pride"), watch TV, wear bathing suits when they go swimming etc. Even "patriotism" is a sin to them. i gotta hand to 'em, they're crazy but consistent! they're really nice, decent people too, despite their beliefs. but X-Mas to them, it is the purest blasphemy.

― latebloomer: not to be confused with the dolphin from Seaquest DSV (latebloomer), Monday, 13 November 2006 02:18 (eighteen years ago)

Are they the Flandereses?

― Trayce (trayce), Monday, 13 November 2006 02:26 (eighteen years ago)

oh, i don't think that american conservative christians REALLY mind commercialism as such (currier-and-ives/it's a wonderful life and religious kitsch are just as commercial as blaring electronics and lights and shit). i think that the bug up their asses is when folks forget "the reason for the season" or somesuch.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 13 November 2006 05:09 (eighteen years ago)

Ed:

What you're saying is correct but its a stretch to go from "Several times during the history of the reformed church there have been attempts to ban christmas," to "Most US conservatives are part of some form of reformed church," as a way to conclude "Evangelicals are meant to be against christmas because there is no scriptural basis for it."

Also, Reformed Church |= Evangelical.

Yes, Christmas was started as a way to steal Pagans away from thier holiday, and no there is no scriptural basis for what happens every December, and yes lots of evangelicals will agree that Christmas brings too much consumerism with it and go and give and recieve and decorate the house and send out cards and all that anyway... but in lots of church sects church tradition is just one notch below scipture.

Is it so odd that a religion which revolves around the human manifestation of God would choose to celebrate his arrival on an annual basis?

― researching ur life (grady), Monday, 13 November 2006 07:43 (eighteen years ago)

Is it so odd that a religion which revolves around the human manifestation of God would choose to celebrate his arrival on an annual basis?

as a general observation and a digression, i've always thought that the eastern orthodox is the one branch of christianity that has it right wr2 which christian holiday should take precedence (i.e., christmas or easter). not that xmas isn't important to them, but the REAL big deal for the eastern orthodox is easter. which to me makes the most sense -- isn't it the POINT of christianity that jesus christ came back from the dead (whilst any schmuck can be born), and if so then shouldn't the event that commemorates his resurrection from the dead take precedence over his birth?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 13 November 2006 07:51 (eighteen years ago)

Also, Reformed Church |= Evangelical.

this is correct but most US evangelicals are part of a church in the reformed tradition.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 13 November 2006 07:52 (eighteen years ago)

Eisbar OTM. In a religious sense, Easter is the keystone. You will find this sentiment outside of the Orthodox church as well. Christmas just has so much more secular connotations than Easter I suppose. If there is no ressurection there is really no Christianity. (I know that there are sects and denominations that disagree with this).

Ed, are you substituting "Reformed" for "Protestant"?

― researching ur life (grady), Monday, 13 November 2006 08:14 (eighteen years ago)

No, I am quite carefully not doing that.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 13 November 2006 08:14 (eighteen years ago)

So you are saying:

A church in the Reformed tradition |= The Reformed Church

If so, I understand what you are saying.

― researching ur life (grady), Monday, 13 November 2006 08:30 (eighteen years ago)

Oh this oughta be good...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15717485/

― hearditonthexico (rogermexico), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 21:15 (eighteen years ago)

Well obviously Moses' staff is an eye-gouging hazard and they all look really flammable.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 21:23 (eighteen years ago)

Why does Jesus look like Billy Rae Cyrus?

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 21:25 (eighteen years ago)

Achy Sacred Heart

― ONIMO ph34rz teh NOIZE (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 21:27 (eighteen years ago)

This guy hated Toys for Tots years ago.

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 21:36 (eighteen years ago)

This whole thing about the "war on Christmas" aggravates me to no end. Partly because I worked in retail for years, and I'd say that "Christian" Christmas shoppers are just as nasty and awful as any other shoppers at this particular time of year. The question of whether or not a clerk says "Merry Christmas" seems pretty irrelevant to me, considering how UN-Christmas-y some of them act.

(/end bitter rant of ex-retail-worker)

― Sara R-C (Sara R-C), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 22:08 (eighteen years ago)

I don't think it's so much whether the clerk says Merry Xmas to you, personally, every time, but that workers themselves aren't allowed to say it. Or if they do, some atheist might get slightly upset at them. My aunt, who is both a dipshit and a fundie, almost quit her job last year because someone (a customer!) suggested it wasn't appreciated.

― Abbott (Abbott), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 23:10 (eighteen years ago)

god forbid the reaction when this gets up here:

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5774/upsidedownuc4sd0.jpg

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 06:47 (eighteen years ago)

awww. i wish it were that time of year already, but perhaps we should wait a few weeks to bring out the big guns.

― Maria (Maria), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 06:54 (eighteen years ago)

If you're going to get an upside down tree, I say go whole hawg and get the blue one.

― aesthetically pleasing, in other words 'fly' (kenan), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 07:00 (eighteen years ago)

"Kids want a gift for the holiday season that is fun.”

― researching ur life (grady), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 08:47 (eighteen years ago)

WHY would someone want an upside down tree?

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 19:21 (eighteen years ago)

To say they had it before thier neighbors did.

(Also easier to fit higher quantity and larger size presents underneath, of course).

― researching ur life (grady), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 19:22 (eighteen years ago)

Jesus: Tougher than the US Marines: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061116/ap_on_re_us/jesus_doll_charity

But think of the poor, poor children...

― hearditonthexico (rogermexico), Thursday, 16 November 2006 22:26 (eighteen years ago)

Toys for Tots has found appropriate places for these items.

haha, i bet they have, i bet they have

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Thursday, 16 November 2006 22:38 (eighteen years ago)

Today in the court office where I was working the radio was already playing Christmas songs. After Jingle Bell rock, one woman complained that it was starting to depress her and that it was just too early for the songs. A few others chimed in that they agreed, and they changed the station. I didn't catch exactly what happened, but about ten minutes later this other woman was complaing to the supervisor in a sarcastic voice about how they made her turn off the Christmas music. "She says it's depressing her -- it's supposed to make you happy" -- the funny thing is that the woman who initially complained about the music is always cheerful and nice and the woman who wanted the Christmas music was extremely cranky and bitter, and was getting all indignant about the idea that anyone would object to Christmas music on fucking NOVEMBER 20.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:45 (eighteen years ago)

TOO SOON

― hearditonthexico (rogermexico), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:50 (eighteen years ago)

http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/a66b71feb8.jpg
I'M MAKING MY LUNCH!

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:52 (eighteen years ago)

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