waiting for someone to die

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i am at this temp assignment doing a/r. the person who i am replacing has taken on the accounting manager's position. the original accounting manager was diagnosed with liver and then pancreatic cancer in Sept. 05. For some reason the owner has kept her on the payroll and thinks she will come back. I was placed here in September, the assignment was supposed to last two months. It looks like it could be temp to hire, i am gaining good experience and i want to hang in for the f/t work and benefits...but it's going on and on, meanwhile other opportunities float by, as i wait for some one to die. any advice people??

Vacillating temp (Vacillating temp), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:41 (nineteen years ago)

Those "other opportunities" you speak of - if they seem to promise something better (more security, better pay, better advancement, better location, better something), then take them. If not, don't.

Aimless (Aimless), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:45 (nineteen years ago)

that's a tough situation. maybe you should try somewhere else though - it's better not to be relying on someone else's misery (or indeed death) just for your own benefit no?

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:45 (nineteen years ago)

i am at this temp assignment doing a/r. the person who i am replacing has taken on the accounting manager's position. the original accounting manager was diagnosed with liver and then pancreatic cancer in Sept. 05. For some reason the owner has kept her on the payroll and thinks she will come back.

Your boss can't fire someone for getting cancer.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:47 (nineteen years ago)

"For some reason" probably is a legal and moral obligation not to fire someone just because they're unwell. Don't hope for anyone's death, it's not quite the done thing.

If you want to keep working there, keep being enthusiastic about the company. The company might have a contractual thing with the temp agency about hiring temps so make discreet enquiries with the company.

beanz (beanz), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:47 (nineteen years ago)

xposts

beanz (beanz), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:47 (nineteen years ago)

Alan Conseco OTM.

Jimmy Mod: The Prettiest Flower In The Pond (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:48 (nineteen years ago)

http://cache.deadspin.com/archives/cansecoflextowel.jpg

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:49 (nineteen years ago)

You know, if I ever actually wanted to troll, I'd probably be pretty good at it, given how well my actual opinions go over.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:52 (nineteen years ago)

they can't fire them for having cancer but they don't have to pay them either. usually if you get ill like that you take a leave of absence and go on disability.

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:53 (nineteen years ago)

they can't fire them for having cancer but they don't have to pay them either. usually if you get ill like that you take a leave of absence and go on disability.

This is correct. Hopefully the person with cancer had a lot of sick time built up or short term disability insurance to bring in income while medical insurance paid the doctor's bills and procedures. After 6 months, long term disability usually kicks in.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:54 (nineteen years ago)

The director of a company I used to work for got pancreatic cancer and was gone for awhile. The guy who assumed he was next in line for the job took over (badly) and told people the director was obviously not long for the planet. He was wrong, the guy got through the treatment and lived to retire 7 years later. After firing the presumptive guy upon returning to work and finding he'd gradually moved into the head guy's office.

I'm currently working with a guy who is recovering from leukemia - he had to be gone for a year, working from home when he could (which wasn't often), but now he's back in charge of the project. So don't be thinking this person who is ill is outta there.

Jaq (Jaq), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:56 (nineteen years ago)

it's a very 'family' type of situation as far as why the owner is keeping her on the payroll. everyone including his PA says she is not coming back. my problem is i have a lot of experience but no degree. i am going back to school to get a BA in accting, so i can have more 'firepower' in the market. (it'll take me about 7 years to get a 4 year degree..you know working two jobs etc whine whine). there are also some major political 'i don't want to be blackballed by the agency issues here' by leaving the position...i mean they charge the company i am assigned to $33 per hr and the agency pays me $17...I'M A WHORE!

Vacillating temp (Vacillating temp), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:57 (nineteen years ago)

We all are. You get used to it.

Jaq (Jaq), Friday, 17 February 2006 16:58 (nineteen years ago)

what aimless said, mostly.

think of these opportunities as competing job offers that you get to negotiate over... if they are more interesting in terms of pay or the work itself, then follow up, try to get them. if you actually get an offer, then sit down with your current employer and say, "you know I really enjoy working here. however i have been offered a permanent position elsewhere. i know it may not be entirely clear, but i wanted to discuss with you what possibility you see for a permanent position opening up for me here."

you have to be careful with the language, obviously, but you have to keep in mind that there are lots of eventualities:
a) they wouldn't hire you permanently in any case
b) original person gets "well" but decides not to come back
c) they decide not to fill your position permanently at all
d) etc.

Mitya (mitya), Friday, 17 February 2006 17:00 (nineteen years ago)

it's a very 'family' type of situation as far as why the owner is keeping her on the payroll. everyone including his PA says she is not coming back.

It doesn't matter if its family or not. If you end up in a car accident or have a dehabilitating disease requiring long stretches of time off, your employer MUST keep you, unless you're a independent contractor who's specified otherwise with their contract. Its illegal for the owner to fire that person. If they did, there would be a huge lawsuit that he'd have no chance of winning.

i mean they charge the company i am assigned to $33 per hr and the agency pays me $17...I'M A WHORE!

I know a lot of people that would physically kill for a chance to "whore" themselves at $17/hr.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Friday, 17 February 2006 17:01 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah temp agencies are a swindle.

Why would leaving the position cause issues for you with the agency? I think they are well-accustomed to dealing with people with changing circumstances. Tell them you have found a better, permanent position.

Miss Misery xox (MissMiseryTX), Friday, 17 February 2006 17:02 (nineteen years ago)

yeah but if you are single that equals like $14 an hr in the pocket. also $17 an hr in SF is not that great, thus the second job....and no i won't relocate...i fuckin grew up here.

Vacillating temp (Vacillating temp), Friday, 17 February 2006 17:06 (nineteen years ago)

yeah but if you are single that equals like $14 an hr in the pocket. also $17 an hr in SF is not that great, thus the second job....and no i won't relocate...i fuckin grew up here.

Oh. SF? That changes things. If it was outside Cali or NYC, then $17/hr would be killer.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Friday, 17 February 2006 17:10 (nineteen years ago)

anyway i appreciate the feedback. I feel a little less angst about the situation now that i have the legal issues clarified. i think that when the account hires a temp the account has to pay the agency a fee for the hire. that is the political part. the agency knows that the account likes me. if i walk and ask for another assignment w/o a degree, etc. i could see getting bumped to the bottom of their list.

Vacillating temp (Vacillating temp), Friday, 17 February 2006 17:17 (nineteen years ago)

definitely. i would punish you, too, if you came back to me and said, "I know there's no end to the job I'm on now, but I am looking for a permanent position and there's no guarantee that this will become one. Please find me something else."

Mitya (mitya), Friday, 17 February 2006 17:22 (nineteen years ago)

actually i did that, even worse i went to the bureau of labor stats site an dl'd the spreadsheet with national averages. and let them (the agnecy) know what salary i would like for the work i do...."i'm on the chopping block" :)

Vacillating temp (Vacillating temp), Friday, 17 February 2006 17:47 (nineteen years ago)

It doesn't matter if its family or not. If you end up in a car accident or have a dehabilitating disease requiring long stretches of time off, your employer MUST keep you, unless you're a independent contractor who's specified otherwise with their contract. Its illegal for the owner to fire that person. If they did, there would be a huge lawsuit that he'd have no chance of winning.

yes but they don't need to keep you on the PAYROLL which is what he's talking about. You're still employed there, but they don't have to pay you.

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 17 February 2006 17:51 (nineteen years ago)

yes but they don't need to keep you on the PAYROLL which is what he's talking about. You're still employed there, but they don't have to pay you.

...unless the person in question has built up sick and vacation time. If they've been there 20 years, building up 1000+ hours of sick time isn't improbable.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Friday, 17 February 2006 18:01 (nineteen years ago)

There's a difference between being on the payroll and being paid, I think. As I understand, it basically means that they can remain an employee of the company, but yes, sickness benefit will kick in to pay her rather than her receiving an actual salary. However, keeping her on the company payroll (even with a salary of £0) would allow her pension, in-service benefits etc to remain active. Well, that's how it works in the UK anyway, I guess it's something similar in the US.

And, like everyone else said, not leave them open to a massive lawsuit for unfair dismissal for effectively firing someone for being ill.

ailsa (ailsa), Friday, 17 February 2006 18:05 (nineteen years ago)

there is even more wrinkles. the a/r person i am covering for has taken over the acctng mngr position and has not received any salary increases (he is also doing IT)..for the same reason that "she might come back"...he is being incredibly patient...still the attitude of sentimentality as demonstrated by the owner leaves me feeling rather unsettled and manipulated.

Vacillating temp (Vacillating temp), Friday, 17 February 2006 18:08 (nineteen years ago)

I spent 18 months in a temp job waiting for someone's back problems to clear up before I was offered a permanent role and that was only because someone else resigned in the interim and I got that job instead. Her with the back problems had her job kept on all that time, and a fair bit afterwards, because the company couldn't fire her for being ill. She was, however, still an employee of the company, even though her salary entitlement under sick pay rules ran out a long time before.

If what the agency makes bothers you so much (1) why temp and (2) why don't you go work for a temp agency and make all that lovely commission for yourself out of poor souls in your position?

ailsa (ailsa), Friday, 17 February 2006 18:13 (nineteen years ago)

There's a difference between being on the payroll and being paid, I think. As I understand, it basically means that they can remain an employee of the company, but yes, sickness benefit will kick in to pay her rather than her receiving an actual salary. However, keeping her on the company payroll (even with a salary of £0) would allow her pension, in-service benefits etc to remain active. Well, that's how it works in the UK anyway, I guess it's something similar in the US.

Many employers here in the US allow employees to accrue sick time like they would vacation time (eg, for every 3 hours worked, 1 hour sick time is accrued and banked). I have no idea exactly how things work at this particular company, but if its someone who's been there a long period of time, they may have banked a lot of sick time. Doing so means that it would be paid out instead of short term disability insurance (which, if you had over 6 months sick time and an additional 6 weeks vacation, you'd have no need for in the first place) until long term disability kicked in. Long term would be coming up rather soon.

You can also keep a person on the payroll without paying them. Just a name in the books with zeros next to it.

there is even more wrinkles. the a/r person i am covering for has taken over the acctng mngr position and has not received any salary increases (he is also doing IT)..for the same reason that "she might come back"...he is being incredibly patient...still the attitude of sentimentality as demonstrated by the owner leaves me feeling rather unsettled and manipulated.

Well, again; you can't demote someone just because they're sick, decrease their pay, etc. So right now, the person working as acting manager is not in a place I'm sure they're thrilled about, but the owner can't go giving that person a pay raise when the possibility of the currently sick manager recovering and returning to work in said position exists. It sucks for everyone; the people that have to make up the work and, most importantly, the person who may be dying of cancer, which is honestly a bigger issue than whether or not someone gets a pay raise in their absence.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Friday, 17 February 2006 18:20 (nineteen years ago)

very true Alan, which makes this whole issue very macabre. this is a new one for me. and i can't do sales (ie pimping temps)...do you wear black? i can't 'master that up'.

Vacillating temp (Vacillating temp), Friday, 17 February 2006 18:33 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know that its necessarily macabre. You're human. You're selfish, like everyone else. Shit, we all need to get paid. I need food on my table too. Do remember: the acting manager is such not because they necessarily deserved the job, but because the person doing it got sick and they're taking their place until further developments. And its experience too, which looks nice on the resume, even if the checks aren't any fatter.

If you wear a black shirt, don't wear black pants. Light khaki. And accessorize.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Friday, 17 February 2006 18:41 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah but Alan, if I were the boss on that one, I'd consider it basic people-management skills to toss the acting manager a bone -- periodic bonuses, a temporary salary increase for the duration of the interim position, something. I guess if the guy seems like a lifer at the company, you wouldn't have to do that, and the potential for climbing the ranks would be enough -- but really, unless he's over 40 or has a family or something else that'd keep him from looking elsewhere, he could probably stand to be tossed a little something.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 17 February 2006 19:11 (nineteen years ago)

It sounds to me as if the company is small enough that it's not attracting people a) with the attitude or b) at the age/position in life that the mercenary "I'm going wherever I can get the most money" attitude prevails. (I'm in my mid-30s and I have a problem with this, and my father looks askance at my brother-in-law who has changed companies four times in the last 10 years, each time for more money.) So the boss is probably taking the acting manager for granted for some extent while worrying more about the person on medical leave.

Mitya (mitya), Friday, 17 February 2006 19:17 (nineteen years ago)

Aye Aye Mitya. The location is in the warehouse district of SF. There are no corporate types within 3 miles of here. The nearest Starbucks is....about 4 miles from here. The owner is taking the acting manager who is like 32, and has kids for granted, and yes nabco it would be a good thing to throw the current mngr a bone, he's unhappy and he isn't shy about expresssing it to me. It is a small company, a fabricator, Union employees in the shop, well paid sales people and administrative doormats. The owner clawed his way up from a shipping clerk to the owner of 7 companies. It's white collar w/ a blue tshirt ownership. Meaning: no appreciation of IT, Accounting or any other neccesary business functions.

Vacillating temp (Vacillating temp), Friday, 17 February 2006 21:24 (nineteen years ago)


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