Ironic

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I just realised I have no idea what the word ironic is supposed to mean. Does anyone know?

― mike hanle y, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Alanis doesn't.

― Nicole, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's this thing.

― AP, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I Am Ironic Man

― Brian MacDonald, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

do you claim to battle irony but actually you've never even met it?

― ethan, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Are you being ironic there,Mike? ;-) It is expressing the opposite of what you think/feel. It is very much part of Po Mo. I think for many people it is a way of protection. If you pretend you aren't passionate about something, you won't be hurt.

― helenfordsdale, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I woke up this morning with the Alanis song stuck in my head. And you WONDER why when I finally managed to drift off to sleep again that I had nightmares.

― Sarah, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ironically enough, Winona Ryder's struggle to answer this very question is a central plot point in the classic coming-of-age story "Reality Bites".

― fritz, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

irony = use of word "classic" in fritz's last post

― mark s, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I still dont get it. I used to thin kit meant like " HOw ironic, that you call me a murderer, yet now you point a gun at me!" Now I think it just means lying

― mike hanle y, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nah, Mike. Helen has ignored an important part of irony, as grasped at by A.M. in her song. I can't put it better than Collins:

3. incongruity between what is expected to be and what actually is, or a situation or resulty showing such incongruity. 4. See dramatic irony.

― N., Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's nothing like rain on your wedding day.

― Dan Perry, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Unless of course Dan you picked a day in the middle of June (like what most people do) specifically to avoid poor climatic conditions. I think A.M. gets far too much shit for that songs lyrics and none for her appalling catawauling voice.

― Pete, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think that's because the horrific caterwauling on that record is a given. It's much more fun to snicker at the non-irony of the majority of the lyrics.

― Dan Perry, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i thought i read SOMEWHERE TAHT THATS NOT WHAT IT MEANS NICK

― Mike Hanle y, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oh did you now. Probably some Alanis-hating irony revisionist.

― N., Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Maybe Dan's problem is not the misdefining of irony, but he does not understand similies. Of course irony is not literally like rain on a wedding day, its much more like an abstract linguistic concept.

― Pete, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The 'it' in "it's like rain on your wedding day" (what are the other sodding lines anyway?) surely doesn't stand for 'irony', though.

― N., Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Thank you, Ptee, for exposing my SECRET SHAME to the entire Internet.

― Dan Perry, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think it is might be irony she is talking about Nick. After all, what is she saying is "like rain on wedding day?" if not the class of all incidents which can be described as ironic.

― Pete, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

with this post ptee radically questions the conventional hierarchies immanent in notions of "correct" grammar

― mark s, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"The class of all incidents which can be described as ironic" is not the same as "irony", linguistically speaking. The 'it' of "it's like rain on your wedding day" is probably the same as the 'it' of the "isn't it ironic?" line; and the latter is surely not saying "isn't irony ironic?". That would be just moronic.

― N., Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think "it" refers to whatever situation she's just outlined in the verse (ie, the old guy who died they day after winning the lottery, finding a fly in a bottle of wine, not being able to smoke on your cigarette break, etc). If someone can point out the inherent irony of finding a fly in a bottle of wine, I will give that person a cookie.

― Dan Perry, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

with this post ptee radically questions the conventional hierarchies immanent in notions of "correct" grammar

That's Pete's 'thing'.

― N., Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Isn't it moronic? Hmm. I think it is ironic that irony itself is not in the class of things which are ironic (warning - Russell's paradox alert) but I take your point Nick.

― Pete, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Is anyone else getting horrible memories of that shit sketch by the Irish comedian guy about the AM song?

― Ronan, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

urgent and key: does Tom shave himself?

― mark s, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

God, it's like a nightmare that won't go away. Yes Ronan. It's that 'joker' Ed Byrne, who I heard on the radio once doing the "Oooh - that song's really annoying cause it's not really ironic at all" thing about three years into hearing everyone else say exactly the same thing ad nauseam. I was so shocked that he still thought it was a funny thing to say (and I think the other people in the studio were too as they all just went silent). No idea if he'd already been making the joke himself for three years at that point (I'm not sure if that makes it more or less forgivable).

Anyway, after Katie brought it up here, I made this moan and within a week there was Will bringing it up again! I'm going through it all in detail now as a kind of catharsis. I accept that I am now officially as boring as Ed bloody Byrne.

― N., Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i still don't know why people have a problem with the word "valid".

― Alan Trewartha, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

A question for Epinimedes sinker: What does immanent mean?

― Sam, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's a bloody good one. I had to look it up, and coming so hot on the heels of the 'ptee' fiasco I wasn't sure if it would be there. But it was. I won't spoil it for you by telling.

― N., Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

*Grudgingly looks it up*

*Resolves to use it in pub*

― Sam, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Wow. I have my own fiasco. Rockin'.

― Pete, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

*still laughing* And believe me, I'm very glad you did. This thread = laffs of the day. So far.

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

it's like banning people from smoking on death row.

― jel, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I ACTUALLY STARTED ALL THIS BECASUE OF A GREAT KEN BURNS DOCUMENTARY ON MARK TWAIN, "MASTER OF IRONY". OR WAS THAT O HENRY? OR IS THAT A CONFECTION? HOW IRONIC! I ALWAYS THAOUGH6 IT MEANT YOU WERE FROM IRON.

― Mike Hanle y, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well its not quite like banning smoking on death row as smoking may not necessarily kill you. Indeed banning smoking in prison is a good part of reinforcing the punishment aspect of the penal system - ie restricting freedoms.

― Pete, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

*back to the drawing board*

― jel, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

IS it ironic that lately I have been thinkng " Better start drinking because of the health benefits!"

― mike hanle y, Tuesday, 29 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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