Claude Lévi-Strauss: classic or dud?

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Never could a classic/dud binary be more fitting. Irony of ironies: all the great post-structuralists are dead and yet the founder of structuralism lives on!

my full name, Thursday, 9 March 2006 15:26 (twenty years ago)

I've read Tristes Tropiques. It was good. It was a travel memoir, though, and not about structuralism.

jz, Thursday, 9 March 2006 15:36 (twenty years ago)

but it was his breakthrough book and switched man like roland barthes on to structuralism.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Friday, 10 March 2006 09:10 (twenty years ago)

I don't think so. Tristes Tropiques came out after Barthes's Mythologies - or at least they were pretty contemporaneous. What would have turned Barthes on to structuralism is Elementary Structures Of Kinship, published in the 40s and given a rave review by de Beauvoir. Apparently it's an excruciatingly difficult/boring read, though.

jz, Friday, 10 March 2006 09:55 (twenty years ago)

Tristes Tropiques came out after Barthes's Mythologies - or at least they were pretty contemporaneous.

you're probably right re '...kinship', but 'mythologies' isn't structuralist, or, it isn't linguistic-structuralist, as he says in the closing essay. 'tt' was definitely the breakout book, a bit hit.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Friday, 10 March 2006 09:58 (twenty years ago)

You're right that Tristes Tropiques was his big hit. It's a literary memoir and it's a really good read but it has nothing to do with structuralism. It's about his journeys in Brazil in the thirties but he didn't start to formulate his structuralist theories until he was exiled to America in the 40s and hooked up with Jacobsen (sp?). I haven't really read his structuralist stuff because it just seems so forbidding, although I've read a few glosses and I've read his analysis of the Oedipus myth. His ideas seem pretty fascinating, but perhaps misapplied (a bit like Freud). There was a takedown of his kinship theories in a recent New Left Review:

http://www.newleftreview.net/NLR27006.shtml

jz, Friday, 10 March 2006 10:16 (twenty years ago)

yeah, him and jakobsen in new york. i haven't read it ('tt') but had always thought it was behind, or partly behind, the vogue for anthropology among literary types -- and 'mythologies' is definitely part of that -- and that on the stregth of his post-'tt' rep he'd become such a big swinging dick on the left bank that barthes et al (though not everyone, or all of barthes' colleagues, or all anthropologists -- not w.out reason, because levi-strauss is kind of anti-historicist) followed his move into structuralism... but the de beauvoir thing might disprove that?

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Friday, 10 March 2006 10:23 (twenty years ago)

you are both wrong: it's jakobson

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 10 March 2006 10:32 (twenty years ago)

god damn it.

metonymy in action amirite?

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Friday, 10 March 2006 10:33 (twenty years ago)

or metaphor, i dunno.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Friday, 10 March 2006 10:34 (twenty years ago)

ok, Jakobson it is! (someone I don't actually know much about at all)

The funny thing is that structuralism's heyday was so brief. Foucault I think initially called himself a structuralist but quickly renounced it - so that by the time structuralism had hit the intellectual consciousness, post-structuralism was already upon us.

I'm attracted to those structuralist ideas of focusing on form and difference rather than content and symbolism. Maybe where Lévi-Strauss went wrong was in trying to make a deterministic, rigorous science of it.

jz, Friday, 10 March 2006 10:38 (twenty years ago)

If Momus comes on today, I'm sure he'll have things to say about Lévi-Strauss, since he always argues in binaries.

jz, Friday, 10 March 2006 10:41 (twenty years ago)

well, i think where he went wrong was applying formalist linguistics -- the science of words (jakobson's thing, developed in petrograd/moscow/prague in the 1910s and '20s) -- to real social structures, main reason being structural anthropology, although it helped historians a lot and changed the game, was in itself anti-historical, dealing in achronous systems and not change from one system to another.

form and difference vs content and symbolism (or whatever) make more sense in analysing literature than analysing social systems.

re. poststructuralism -- the literary bias was retained, even if the binary thing at the core of l-s era structuralism was not.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Friday, 10 March 2006 10:44 (twenty years ago)

since he always argues in binaries.

but will he produce one of those straussian squares this time?

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 10 March 2006 16:20 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

Dude's turning 100 in 2 and a half weeks. How should I celebrate? (i.e. what works to look into)

Their time's limited, hard rocks, too (mehlt), Tuesday, 11 November 2008 00:48 (seventeen years ago)

oh wow, good for him. to be honest, i don't remember what i've read by him, but i remember it being CLASSIC. not something i'd actually draw upon much in anthropology, but very beautiful theory.

Maria, Tuesday, 11 November 2008 02:01 (seventeen years ago)

Yeah, I think I moreso wanted to just draw attention the fact he's turning 100.

Their time's limited, hard rocks, too (mehlt), Tuesday, 11 November 2008 02:52 (seventeen years ago)

What is that novel (IIRC by a British author who is IIRC a woman) set in S. America wherein Levi-Strauss is hell of viillianized? And there's a shaman who turns into a jaguar and a semi-erotic tapir scene and (IIRC) incest?

This book is from the second half of the 20th century.

Abbott of the Trapezoid Monks (Abbott), Tuesday, 11 November 2008 02:57 (seventeen years ago)

The Pelican Brief

I wonder if birds - even dinosaur birds - were created in mid-air, (latebloomer), Tuesday, 11 November 2008 03:01 (seventeen years ago)

I don't know but your description made me think of Wilbur Smith's SUNBIRD for a second

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 11 November 2008 03:03 (seventeen years ago)

Do you ever wish there was a google where you could be like, "you know, that one book I had to read in British Lit that I hated, the one that wasn't about Nazis and wasn't by James Joyce?"

Abbott of the Trapezoid Monks (Abbott), Tuesday, 11 November 2008 03:22 (seventeen years ago)

Oh-HOH, it is The Ventriloquist's Tale by Pauline Mellville, published in 1997.

Abbott of the Trapezoid Monks (Abbott), Tuesday, 11 November 2008 03:25 (seventeen years ago)

two weeks pass...

100 today

Zelda Zonk, Thursday, 27 November 2008 09:56 (seventeen years ago)

joyeux anniversaire Claude

baaderonixx, Thursday, 27 November 2008 10:27 (seventeen years ago)

eleven months pass...

RIP :-(

spiny doughboy (baaderonixx), Tuesday, 3 November 2009 16:20 (sixteen years ago)

triste topique

Bobby Wo (max), Tuesday, 3 November 2009 16:31 (sixteen years ago)

aw really? :(

Peepoop Patel (harbl), Tuesday, 3 November 2009 16:34 (sixteen years ago)

BBC reporting it.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 November 2009 16:37 (sixteen years ago)

Shoot, I loved the fact that he was STILL alive.

twice boiled cabbage is death, Tuesday, 3 November 2009 16:40 (sixteen years ago)

A nice cheery headline from Bloomberg

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 November 2009 16:42 (sixteen years ago)

Le Monde

Le Figaro

No story up at Libération yet but they have a headline running.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 November 2009 16:47 (sixteen years ago)

"A qui doit-on cette pensée immense ? Un philosophe ? Un ethnologue, un anthropologue, un savant, un logicien, un détective ? Ou encore un bricoleur, un écrivain, un poète, un moraliste, un esthète, voire un sage ? Seule réponse possible : toutes ces figures ensemble se nomment Claude Lévi-Strauss."

twice boiled cabbage is death, Tuesday, 3 November 2009 16:51 (sixteen years ago)

Libération

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 November 2009 16:54 (sixteen years ago)

100 years old, people

spiny doughboy (baaderonixx), Tuesday, 3 November 2009 19:37 (sixteen years ago)

RIP

100 years is a damn good run.

Brad C., Tuesday, 3 November 2009 19:40 (sixteen years ago)

loved the jeans

Your Favorite Saturday Night Thing (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 3 November 2009 19:48 (sixteen years ago)

live till 100, you definitely gotta have good genes

banned, on the run (s1ocki), Tuesday, 3 November 2009 19:50 (sixteen years ago)

NYT obit

Brad C., Tuesday, 3 November 2009 20:07 (sixteen years ago)

RIP

Spencer Chow, Tuesday, 3 November 2009 20:19 (sixteen years ago)

RIP

kshighway1, Tuesday, 3 November 2009 20:29 (sixteen years ago)

rip indeed. incidentally, i learned a few days ago that franz boas died in his arms....

Maria, Tuesday, 3 November 2009 20:43 (sixteen years ago)

R.I.P

dowd, Tuesday, 3 November 2009 23:16 (sixteen years ago)

ten months pass...

BUMP because I've never read any Levi-Strauss and I don't know where to start. Tristes Tropiques seems to be generally well-regarded, but I'm wondering if that's just because it's the most enjoyable -- at the risk of sounding like a jerk, I'm less interested in finding a "good read" (I have plenty of those in my queue, thanks!) than in getting a better handle on this whole 'structuralism' thingamajig. Which is not to say that I need a systematic presentation of the sort that I would expect to find in the promisingly dry-sounding Structural Anthropology, Vol. 1; if Tristes Tropiques manages to get across the important bits while remaining relatively painless, then I'll gladly read it! Alternately, The Savage Mind tantalizes me with the prospect of some sort of middle ground between the two antipodes I've projected here, but I read somewhere that the English translation is awful.

haven't you people ever heard of theodor a-goddamn-dorno (bernard snowy), Friday, 24 September 2010 14:14 (fifteen years ago)

(maybe I shoulda just started a new thread in I Love Books...?)

haven't you people ever heard of theodor a-goddamn-dorno (bernard snowy), Friday, 24 September 2010 15:01 (fifteen years ago)

Structural Anthropology is really great. I'm teaching it right now and tho it can be dry (mostly when he's speaking to institutional histories - like the difference between ethnology and ethnography which is where he opens the book) it's also super brilliant and an incredibly important book.

Mordy, Friday, 24 September 2010 15:16 (fifteen years ago)


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