Is this bullshit my restaurant is pulling now legal or can I sue them?

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So, many restaurants add gratuity to large parties. That's just standard. My restaurant used to add 18% to parties of 8 or more. Out of nowhere they reduced it to 15% gratuitity. On top of that, we have a huge tipout. For those who don't know, a certain percentage of our sales for the shift go to other employees of the restaurant. I believe 1% goes to the bus-boys, 1% to the bartender, and 1% to the hostesses. So, after you subtract all that, I'm really only getting slightly above 10% gratuity on big parties.

Are they allowed to do this? Is this legal -- that I have to help pay the other employees salaries? Often there isn't even any bus-boy working. I still have to tip out the money to him though. Is this legal? If that is legal, can they make my gratuity so low and just out of nowhere drop it like that?

Tonight I got fucked over and barely made any money and I am pissed. Another employee added out his tip-out for the past week and it was over $300. That's a lot of fucking money to be giving to other people.

Mickey (modestmickey), Saturday, 11 March 2006 04:43 (twenty years ago)

There used to be this thing called a union that represented people like you. That union still exists, but is basically very small and not considered to be influential.
Which means it's legal to pay waiters nothing. It's not legal to demand that you tip the bartender, busperson, manager...but you'll lose your job if you complain.
There's a fun website called "the stained apron" that is a great place to vent your frustrations.
One common thing you will find in restaraunts is..it's pretty easy to figure out ways to steal from your oppresor.Revenge is a dish that is best served...

aimurchie (aimurchie), Saturday, 11 March 2006 05:02 (twenty years ago)

...sauced with man-goo?

Knute Rockne, All American (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 11 March 2006 13:41 (twenty years ago)

Who says the gratutity is yours? It's for service; you just collect it.

Not that it's not a drag, but I don't see anything even vaguely questionable here, in terms of law.

Mitya (mitya), Saturday, 11 March 2006 15:40 (twenty years ago)

restaurant work is SHIT sometimes. the tip-out you describe seems perfectly normal to me -- that was always the most painful part of the night as a server, but the best part of the night for the hosts & busboys, who make nothing compared to you.

killy (baby lenin pin), Saturday, 11 March 2006 17:30 (twenty years ago)

Are they allowed to do this? Is this legal -- that I have to help pay the other employees salaries

you should be happy to tip out the busboys. they do most of the work for you, afterall, and get way less money. the hostess, on the other hand...

phil-two (phil-two), Saturday, 11 March 2006 17:40 (twenty years ago)

Tipping out is customary in nicer places but it can get really political. More generous waiters get better tables (none of those non-tipping euros in my section please), better service from the busboys and wine stewards, and can actually generate more sales and turn over their tables faster.

A more stable scheme like this could actually result in better service across the board. But if you're paying for help that isn't there that's BS.

Rotgutt (Rotgutt), Saturday, 11 March 2006 17:49 (twenty years ago)

Do a google search for "tip out" and legal - there are a bunch of pages on it, from caselaw to labor sites talking about tipping out, and it seems to vary based on your location.

As far as I know, it's almost always perfectly legal, so long as you still end up making more than minimum wage over the course of your shift.

Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Saturday, 11 March 2006 18:22 (twenty years ago)

On that Stained Apron site there's a whinge from an American who worked in a London wine bar, complaining about the lack of tips. ROFL.

Si.C@rter (SiC@rter), Saturday, 11 March 2006 18:26 (twenty years ago)

Erick, yeah, I've been Googling it a lot. It looks like some states have laws regarding this specifically, but in North Carolina it's perfectly fine.

This is ridiculous. With large parties, people see gratuity added on so they just think oh ok, he has his tip, and that is that. Although I'm just getting a little over 10%. Tell me where in this country a 10% tip is acceptable? And what's the other option, telling the customer, hey, just so you know, the gratuity is tiny, so um, I mean, as of right now I'm hardly getting any money. Just keep that in mind, thanx!

Mickey (modestmickey), Saturday, 11 March 2006 18:29 (twenty years ago)

What are you talking about? Every restaurant everywhere tips out the busperson, bartender, kitchen, etc, as well they should. You have a legit complaint for the reduction of the 18% gratuity and I would complain, but fuck the rest of your argument.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 11 March 2006 18:54 (twenty years ago)

Not tipping out someone who isn't working is weird though. Where does the money go?

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 11 March 2006 18:55 (twenty years ago)

yeah, good busboys, etc., make you look better, so i wouldn't complain too much about tipping out to them. and actually, there's nothing that says, even when gratuity is added into the bill, that the customer has to give a gratuity at all. they have every right to cross out the added in gratuity, so keep that in mind if you're sulking around the restaurant over this.

tehresa (tehresa), Saturday, 11 March 2006 18:59 (twenty years ago)

Not tipping out someone who isn't working is weird though. Where does the money go?

That is my point exactly.

Mickey (modestmickey), Saturday, 11 March 2006 19:02 (twenty years ago)

According to my g/f you DON'T actually have to tip out anyone else, but good luck getting drinks served, tables bussed, parties seated at your tables, etc. . . So yeah good luck on that.

Tipping out people who aren't there though and reducing the gratuity from 18% to 15%, yeah, that's worth being pissed about.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 11 March 2006 19:03 (twenty years ago)

She also sez if you are working for a corporate restaurant to get the fuck out there and find some nice bistro somewhere. You'll be happier.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 11 March 2006 19:04 (twenty years ago)

I really don't mind the tip out so much. I've never complained about it before, but last night I just got fucked all around.

I had one big table in my section and two smaller ones. A ~15 top was coming in, so they reserved my big table and one smaller one to put the party at. Now keep in mind, we don't have reservations. But they put menus on the tables and waited for this party to get there for about an hour and a half, right in the middle of the rush. So while everybody else had full sections, I just had one small table I was serving. When the big party finally got there and ordered after keeping me waiting about 2 hours, they then stayed about 3 hours. They were there the ENTIRE night. They were basically my only table. And then I only had the ~10% gratuity from them? That's fucking bullshit. I made less than half of what I should have made last night because the management fucked me by:

1. Taking 1 table out of my section earlier in the night -- it was supposed to be a 4 table section, but they gave one to someone else.
2. Reserving my section forever, counter to actual restaurant policy.
3. Lowering the gratuity.

The place I live in is terrible for restaurants, but I'm going to start looking for another job now.

Mickey (modestmickey), Saturday, 11 March 2006 19:13 (twenty years ago)

You're taking all the romance out of it for those of us who assume you do it for love...

paulhw (paulhw), Saturday, 11 March 2006 22:48 (twenty years ago)

But they put menus on the tables and waited for this party to get there for about an hour and a half, right in the middle of the rush.

that's lame. any crowded restaurant should have an "if you're not there at your specified time, please enjoy the wendy's across the street" policy.

Knute Rockne, All American (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 11 March 2006 23:29 (twenty years ago)

Did you still make more than the min wage, Mickey?

Markelby (Mark C), Saturday, 11 March 2006 23:53 (twenty years ago)

You're pissed at your restaurant for all the wrong reasons. Tip out and auto gratuity aren't the problem, your restaurant being run badly is the problem.

Almost every one I've dealt with had a tip-out of 3-5%, but they were run so that you still made decent money averaging 10-12%. Either you had a high enough PPA to make up for it, or you had enough turnaround so you didn't care. And they didn't begin to put together big tops until every member of the party was there and ready.

Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Sunday, 12 March 2006 00:01 (twenty years ago)

Things like this support my conclusion that waiting tables is a sucky job.

It's really messed up that people's livelihoods are predicated on tipping. How did we as a society get to this point?

Super Cub (Debito), Sunday, 12 March 2006 00:13 (twenty years ago)

Alex in SF, xpost.

My cousin worked at a GREAT restaurant in New Orleans for years, and loved it. It was an independant restaurant.

It came under new management, and became not as cool, so she left and was stuck with corporate places, which, as a rule, suck ass. They have a large amount of people to pay up to. Look for indie places - they treat their people SO much better, do a better job of promoting the organically positive aspects of the service industry (having people as guests, allowing personal touches by the staff, etc.), and don't have an un-negotiable pay scale.

I often miss the waitstaff lifestyle. It can be a ton of fun if you find the right place.

Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Sunday, 12 March 2006 00:14 (twenty years ago)

Not sure why that was addressed to me, but yeah OTM (esp. about it being fun if you find the right place.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 12 March 2006 00:21 (twenty years ago)

(i)She also sez if you are working for a corporate restaurant to get the fuck out there and find some nice bistro somewhere. You'll be happier. (/i)

OTM on the anti-corportate sentiment. Even smaller corporate groups instill an ugly set of feelings on what otherwise can be a cool job.

Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Sunday, 12 March 2006 00:27 (twenty years ago)

She also sez if you are working for a corporate restaurant to get the fuck out there and find some nice bistro somewhere. You'll be happier.

OTM on the anti-corportate sentiment. Even smaller corporate groups instill an ugly set of feelings on what otherwise can be a cool job

Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Sunday, 12 March 2006 00:28 (twenty years ago)

sorry. Drunk adversely affects my HTML knowledge.

Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Sunday, 12 March 2006 00:28 (twenty years ago)

There are benefits to working in the right corporate place, though. Like actual benefits.

Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Sunday, 12 March 2006 00:49 (twenty years ago)

What town are you in Mick? I'll tip you silly if you're in the Triangle!

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Sunday, 12 March 2006 01:05 (twenty years ago)

Amen. I'll GLADLY tip a person that I know HUGE. Let us all KNOW. B/c we're all a secret club an shit.

Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Sunday, 12 March 2006 05:31 (twenty years ago)

Thomas Tallis, I'm in Charlotte. I wish I was in Chapel Hill, I think it'd be a lot better there.

The restaurant was like this. Everything was nice and fine, except the kitchen was pretty unorganized and had a lot of problems. Not so bad that the restaurant ran incredibly badly, but it was pretty common to get overly long ticket times and stuff. A new manager came in, this bastard named Nate. And he was all, Ok, I am going to fix this restaurant and make it run so much better! Now, what was stable is now completely unstable and run like shit. Today I had a talk with him about how badly I was fucked over last night and how upset I was about it.

And re, some post above, yes, I still made minimum wage, so I can't ask for more money. But yes, this restaurant is run shitty. I am going to start looking for a new restaurant, but this part of Charlotte (near the university) is bad. All the nice restaurants with good clientele, where you can actually make a good amount of money, are a pretty good distance, and I'm not excited about the prospect of driving half an hour to work every day. My restaurant is one of the most popular ones in this part of town. Any other one will get the same undesirable clientele, but less of them, and most likely better management. The only way to really get ahead here would be a long drive to another side of town, so I'm not exactly sure the best way to handle this.

Mickey (modestmickey), Sunday, 12 March 2006 07:57 (twenty years ago)

Tonight I was put in cocktail, generally considered one of the better sections, but christ, it was such a slow night. We had the worst fucking customers. I had TWO tables walk out without tipping me a penny. I made $60. That's pathetic.

Mickey (modestmickey), Sunday, 12 March 2006 08:01 (twenty years ago)

Re: corporate stuff.

This is only my second restaurant job. My first one was as un-corporate as you can possibly get. It was a tiny Jamaican place, only ten tables in the whole restaurant, run by this crazy old Jamaican lady. She cooked all the food and did all the management-related stuff. Problem was that she was crazy and had terrible eye sight and refused to buy eye glasses. Basically I was a manger there, although I wasn't paid for it, but I had so many responsibilities it was terrible. One day the electricity was actually shut off since she hadn't been paying the bill. I was in charge then of writing the check for her and calling the electricity company and getting it sorted out since she was too old/crazy/whatever to handle it herself. That type of thing was a common occurance. Here's another scenario:

Addie: How much he [customer] pay for de curry goat?

Me: $12

Addie: $12? No, no! No! You must charge $15! He must pay you $15!

Me: The menu says $12. That's what we've been charging the entire 3 months I've worked here.

Addie: No! De menu say dat? No, that is too cheap, man! He must give you $15!

Oh my god. As you can imagine it was a terrible experience. So coming to this new corporate restaurant was a breath of fresh air. I could go into work, expect things to happen as they should, only worry about my job, make my money, and then leave. Now those things are obviously changing though, but christ. I guess I need something in the middle. At first the corporate nature of it was very attractive, coming from my Jamaican hellhole, but I am strongly desiring a little mom 'n pop place now.

Mickey (modestmickey), Sunday, 12 March 2006 08:06 (twenty years ago)

According to the stained apron, legalyy you should immediately begin stealing items from the restaurant to compensate for lost wages. I mean , more than you are already taking.

Mr Jones (Mr Jones), Sunday, 12 March 2006 09:45 (twenty years ago)

This is just odd to me, though I suppose I'm just coming from a different working culture. Service is service top to bottom. Barstaff, till staff, pass staff all get an equal share. Waiting on couldn't do their job if the rest of the staff weren't doing theirs. I've worked places where staff kept tips to themselves and they were unpleasant places to work, no-one helped anyone else out.

Matt (Matt), Sunday, 12 March 2006 09:47 (twenty years ago)

I reccommended the Stained Apron because it's an entertaining read for restaraunt workers..IMHO.
When I managed restaraunts, (twice, one fine dining and one pub), I asked the staff how they would feel about "grouping" tips. Sometimes, people really didn't want to do it. But when it worked, we would essentially work as a team to get through the night, and then divvy it all up at the end. Some people HATE this idea. I was always on the floor as a manager (meaning doing all the jobs), and found that, when it worked, it gave a really nice sense of camraderie to the night. Again, I would let everyone decide what they wanted to do, and if I was working with people who liked the idea, we'd do it. It also meant that we all cleared each other's tables, refilled water's, etc....whatever, it worked really well at times.(oh, and by the way, I never divvied up the money. I left that to the other staff, as it would have looked weird for me to be the one handling the money - especially since I had the "manager's key", ie access to the override on the computer).
But being a lily livered liberal in the restaraunt world - especially in management - is an anomaly.
But oh! those nights when everyone left with $125.00, the bus staff and host got a percentage based on a real calculation, and everyone wanted to be the first one to buy a round of drinks at the bar down the street....

aimurchie (aimurchie), Sunday, 12 March 2006 14:13 (twenty years ago)

In my experience, it i totally the right thing to "group" tips, even if one portion gets a smaller cut than others. I barbacked last summer, and we got paid 10/hour + a split of 10% of the take that night. A few nights, I walked out with 95 after working 7 hours. Not great. But other nights, I made more than the bartenders - sometimes double what they made.

Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Sunday, 12 March 2006 14:28 (twenty years ago)


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