It's April 2006 in Iraq

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Do not only remember the dead, remember the wounded.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 1 April 2006 17:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Wolfowitz should be deep-fried one inch at a time. However, barring that, an apology would be a good start.

Rumsfeld should have his genitals pickled in a jar as a keepsake. However, barring that, an apology would be a good start.

Cheney should be Lyndie Englanded non-stop by anyone willing to wait in line for the opportunity, with second and third helpings allowed. However, barring that, an apology would be a good start.

George Bush the Lesser should be branded on the forehead with the Mark of the Beast and live the rest of his miserable life, shunned by society and eating out of garbage cans. However, barring that, an apology would be a good start.

Aimless (Aimless), Saturday, 1 April 2006 18:13 (eighteen years ago) link

I was thinking that it's depressing that these kind of threads don't attract as much attention as, say, threads entitled My Penis Is On Fire, but then I was thinking it's as if really there's not that much more that can be said about it. But that in itself is really depressing and maybe that's going to work in favour of the administration in the long run in that people are just getting bored with the whole thing and just aren't that bothered. As long as Iraqis are killing each other and not us (hostages, troops, "security contractors") it's not such as issue for people outsied of Iraq.

Maybe.

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Sunday, 2 April 2006 16:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Iraqis that is, not Straw and Rice...

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Sunday, 2 April 2006 16:43 (eighteen years ago) link

But that in itself is really depressing and maybe that's going to work in favour of the administration in the long run in that people are just getting bored with the whole thing and just aren't that bothered.

There may not be rioting in the streets but you can damn well be sure that the GOP (and for that matters the Democrats) are calculating potential down the road impact later this year and 2008. People aren't bored, but they're not necessarily as vocal about it.

To give you an idea of how at least one ideologue reads it, consider Andy McCarthy today thinking about Geracht's piece. He's hardly sanguine:

I think it's possible Americans could be persuaded that we must step it up and achieve an unambiguous military victory in Iraq to prevent terrorists from winning a share of power in an outcome that would be a humiliating defeat of the U.S. (which would be seen as confirming bin Laden's claims that we lack resolve). That is a national interest that people can support, ardently, if the case can be made convincingly.

But that case would have to be made. And making it would be an uphill battle at a time when (a) the debate at home has become about drawing down our presence, (b) the public case for why military victory in Iraq is crucial to success in the overall war on terror has long been neglected, (c) the administration has told the country that major combat operations are over and establishing a democratic Iraqi government is what matters, (d) the American people have understandably come to view Iraqis as not nearly grateful enough for all we have sacrificed on their behalf, and (e) Iraq is looming so large in the coming mid-term elections.

I'd love to be wrong, but I am not optimistic that the will exists to overcome all of this.

This type of view will continue to gain more traction the longer this grinds on. You've got the various chirpy types still somehow convinced that just because Bush says something that therefore it is true but they're having to deal with alternate interpretations from their side that they can't dismiss as 'typical' liberal talk or whatever.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 April 2006 13:16 (eighteen years ago) link

Meanwhile, here's the complaint of another liberal peacenik commie...that is what Anthony Zinni is, right?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 April 2006 13:22 (eighteen years ago) link

(Amusingly, I note RedState doesn't mention Zinni at all in their Sunday talk show roundup. Wonder why?)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 April 2006 13:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Then there's the de facto ethnic separation occuring in some areas...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 April 2006 13:25 (eighteen years ago) link

Thank the Lord they're not having a civil war or anthing...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4887856.stm

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Friday, 7 April 2006 13:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Thank the Lord they're not having a civil war or anything...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4887856.stm

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Friday, 7 April 2006 13:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Anyways...there's so much stuff going on I can't keep up. 9 US soldiers dead on Monday?
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/060403/w040369.html

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Friday, 7 April 2006 13:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Meanwhile the BBC are doing an excellent "Day in the Life" thing on Iraq to-day.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4883964.stm

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Friday, 7 April 2006 13:14 (eighteen years ago) link

could i just ask (since i'm not super up on current events and politics and things) where the death toll on iraqi civilians from terror bombings is at?

i'm reading the excellent book "wake the town and tell the people" and i was struck by a reference to the political violence between supporters of manley + seaga in jamaica in the late 70s / early 80s. the author briefly mentions the 800 or so political murders between 1978 and 1980 and refers to it as near "civil war" in its proportions.

i am fairly certain (w/o having any hard-and-fast numbers) that by now the sectarian violence must easily surpass that rate.

what was the violence like in yugoslavia during their civil war? how does it compare to iraq?

i guess what i am getting at is why and how people decide what constitutes a civil war? does it have to do w/ a breakdown of infrastructure? are we so generous about this situation because the infrastructure isn't much more fragmented under the current political order in iraq than it was under saddam?

vahid (vahid), Friday, 7 April 2006 18:42 (eighteen years ago) link

General Paul Eaton (Ret) was on On Point yesterday(w/ George Packer), pretty much spending the hour talking about how the war is fucked and Rumsfeld needs to go now.

kingfish ubermensch dishwasher sundae (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 7 April 2006 18:52 (eighteen years ago) link

could i just ask (since i'm not super up on current events and politics and things) where the death toll on iraqi civilians from terror bombings is at?

http://icasualties.org/oif/IraqiDeaths.aspx

The site compilers note that this is drawn from news reports rather than specifically verifiable statistics.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 April 2006 19:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Thank you, Caleb Carr.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 9 April 2006 17:40 (eighteen years ago) link

how people decide what constitutes a civil war?

These questions are generally referred to the International Board of War Standards for adjudication.

Aimless (Aimless), Sunday, 9 April 2006 17:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Egypt says it's civil war, Straw and Rice say no, the interim PM says it isn't "and anyone who says different will have my armed militias to deal with." I'm not sure what constitutes a civil war either but at the very least you now have various parts of the country being ruled by different factions. Who are, of course, heavily armed. For protection.

As for Yugoslavia - about 250,000 people died between 1992 and 1995. But it's difficult to compare the two. Frankly (looking at that link Mr Raggett posted) if fighting in any other country was posting deaths of 340 a week we'd be saying that the country had - to use a cliche - 'descended into anarchy'.

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Sunday, 9 April 2006 19:51 (eighteen years ago) link

Newbold joins Zinni on the criticism front. The numbers will doubtless increase.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 April 2006 00:35 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't know if Mr Raggett was talking of numbers of casualties increasing or generals demanding some change of tack but either way he was right...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4908948.stm

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Friday, 14 April 2006 07:37 (eighteen years ago) link

I wonder if Rumsfeld will take the rap? It's not really in his nature is it?

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Friday, 14 April 2006 07:39 (eighteen years ago) link

gosh, what a surprise.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 15 April 2006 14:21 (eighteen years ago) link

Rumsfeld is constitutionally incapable of admitting he is an arrogant fuckup. Even if, some time before his death, he eventually realizes that he erred badly in his judgements about Iraq, he will stoutly believe that no one else on earth could have done better than he did, unless it was by purely accidental happenstance. He's just that kind of douchebag.

Aimless (Aimless), Saturday, 15 April 2006 16:32 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah i definitely don't foresee any errol morris confessions of rumsfeld doc.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 15 April 2006 16:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Wolfowitz should be deep-fried one inch at a time. However, barring that, an apology would be a good start.

-- Aimless (aimles...), April 1st, 2006.

Someone was quoted in the James Risen "State of War" book as saying that Wolfowitz is the only one of the war's planners whose consience troubles him (he is known to visit many wounded soldiers) but I wouldn't expect any McNamara-ing from him until after all the troops have left Iraq.

ramon fernandez (ramon fernandez), Monday, 17 April 2006 05:43 (eighteen years ago) link

His poor conscience.

DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 17 April 2006 08:33 (eighteen years ago) link

And on it goes...
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1881762
This is really relentlessly depressing. I expect it'll sort itself out now they've got a new PM though...

ned t.rifle III, Monday, 24 April 2006 08:48 (eighteen years ago) link

And here's a bit of news I missed...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4936530.stm

"Shortly after his nomination, Mr Maliki pointed out that the constitution calls for militias to be merged into the official security forces."

How does that work exactly?

ned trifle III, Monday, 24 April 2006 09:02 (eighteen years ago) link

How does that work exactly?

It depends. One hopes it means that the militias shall be subsumed into a new Iraqi army, thereby contributing to Iraq's security, rather than causing instability, while providing the vital manpower for a professional national force, dedicated to the creation of democratic and prosperous Iraq.

Or maybe it means that the mullah with the most guns and men wins.

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 24 April 2006 15:07 (eighteen years ago) link

like the mahdi army and the badr brigades are really concerned with a democratic and prosperous iraq. what it means in southern areas that the badr brigades already patrol is more shariah, enforced on the street a la the taliban.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 24 April 2006 15:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah. If I had to name odds I'd put my first choice as 25-1 against. But wouldn't sunshine and lollipops be much nicer?

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 24 April 2006 15:33 (eighteen years ago) link

no doubt this has been picked up on loads of blogs, but since this is a big repost thread right now, well anyway -

Q Thank you, Mr. President. It's an honor to have you here. I'm a first-year student in South Asia studies. My question is in regards to private military contractors. Uniform Code of Military Justice does not apply to these contractors in Iraq. I asked your Secretary of Defense a couple months ago what law governs their actions.

THE PRESIDENT: I was going to ask him. Go ahead. (Laughter.) Help. (Laughter.)

Q I was hoping your answer might be a little more specific. (Laughter.) Mr. Rumsfeld answered that Iraq has its own domestic laws which he assumed applied to those private military contractors. However, Iraq is clearly not currently capable of enforcing its laws, much less against -- over our American military contractors. I would submit to you that in this case, this is one case that privatization is not a solution. And, Mr. President, how do you propose to bring private military contractors under a system of law?

THE PRESIDENT: I appreciate that very much. I wasn't kidding -- (laughter.) I was going to -- I pick up the phone and say, Mr. Secretary, I've got an interesting question. (Laughter.) This is what delegation -- I don't mean to be dodging the question, although it's kind of convenient in this case, but never -- (laughter.) I really will -- I'm going to call the Secretary and say you brought up a very valid question, and what are we doing about it? That's how I work. I'm -- thanks. (Laughter.)

http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=164532&keyword=contractor&phrase=&contain=

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 05:43 (eighteen years ago) link


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