The strange case of the man who took 40,000 ecstasy pills in nine years

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The strange case of the man who took 40,000 ecstasy pills in nine years

· Usage increased to 25 tablets a day at peak
· Memory problems and paranoia may be lasting

David McCandless
Tuesday April 4, 2006
The Guardian

Doctors from London University have revealed details of what they believe is the largest amount of ecstasy ever consumed by a single person. Consultants from the addiction centre at St George's Medical School, London, have published a case report of a British man estimated to have taken around 40,000 pills of MDMA, the active ingredient in ecstasy, over nine years. The heaviest previous lifetime intake on record is 2,000 pills.

Though the man, who is now 37, stopped taking the drug seven years ago, he still suffers from severe physical and mental health side-effects, including extreme memory problems, paranoia, hallucinations and depression. He also suffers from painful muscle rigidity around his neck and jaw which often prevents him from opening his mouth. The doctors believe many of these symptoms may be permanent.

The man, known as Mr A in the report in the scientific journal Psychosomatics, started using ecstasy at 21. For the first two years his use was an average of five pills per weekend. Gradually this escalated until he was taking around three and a half pills a day. At the peak, the man was taking an estimated 25 pills every day for four years. After several severe collapses at parties, Mr A decided to stop taking ecstasy. For several months, he still felt he was under the influence of the drug, despite being bedridden.

Hallucinations

His condition deteriorated and he began to experience recurrent tunnel vision and other problems including hallucinations, paranoia and muscle rigidity. "He came to us after deciding that he couldn't go on any more," said Dr Christos Kouimtsidis, the consultant psychiatrist at St George's Medical School in Tooting who treated him for five months. "He was having trouble functioning in everyday life."

The doctors discovered that the man was suffering from severe short-term memory problems of a type usually only seen in lifetime alcoholics. But evaluating the full extent of his condition was difficult as his concentration and attention was so impaired he was unable to follow the simple tasks involved in the test.

"This was an exceptional case. His long- term memory was fine but he could not remember day to day things - the time, the day, what was in his supermarket trolley," said Dr Kouimtsidis. "More worryingly, he did not seem aware himself that he had these memory problems."

With no mental illness in his family and no prior psychiatric history, the doctors concluded that his unique condition was direct result of his intense ecstasy use.

"This is obviously an extreme case so we should not blow any observations out of proportion," says Dr Kouimtsidis. "But if this is what is happening to very heavy users, it might be an indication that daily use of ecstasy over a long period of time can lead to irreversible memory problems and other cognitive deficits."

For 10 years, MDMA has been suspected of causing these kinds of effects in heavy users. It is thought to be due to its disruption of the regulation of serotonin, a brain chemical believed to play a role in mood and memory. It remains unclear whether these effects are the result of permanent neurotoxic damage or just temporary reversible alterations in the brain.

A study today in a special MDMA issue of the British Journal of Psychopharmacology, suggests long-term side-effects may be temporary. The researchers from the University Of Louisiana could find no significant relationship between depression and recreational ecstasy use.

In the case of Mr A, a structural MRI brain scan failed to show any obvious damage or atrophy in his brain. However, these results, says Dr Kouimtsidis, are difficult to interpret. "A scan of this type is not sensitive enough," he said.

Such limitations in brain scanning technology, along with ethical and legal barriers to giving MDMA to human test subjects, have limited direct observation of the drug's effects in humans.

Instead, scientists have had to use recreational drug users as subjects in their studies. Conclusions from this are often flawed because few, if any, drugs users use ecstasy in isolation.

Cannabis user

Mr A was also a heavy cannabis user, and when he was encouraged to decrease his use, his paranoia and hallucinations disappeared and his anxiety abated. But his memory and concentration problems remained, leading the doctors to suspect that these may be permanent disabilities.

When he was admitted to a specialist brain injury unit and put on anti-psychotic medication, he did start to show some improvement. "Unfortunately, he discharged himself before we were able to complete the assessment," says Dr Kouimtsidis. "We continued to support him. But he started to use cannabis again and he dropped out. We tried to re-engage him but we lost him about a year ago."

The Guardian made several attempts to find the man without success.

Effects of ecstasy

MDMA is one the most intensely studied recreational drugs in history. But despite thousands of research papers and studies, scientific evidence on the side-effects remains inconclusive.

Death by overdose

Undoubtedly, large amounts of ecstasy can lead to over-heating which in turn, in rare cases, can trigger fatal heat stroke. Many factors contribute: number and strength of pills taken, environment, alcohol-consumption, body weight - but women seem more at risk. The bulk of ecstasy-related deaths around the world have been young women.

Water-poisoning

Panicking users, fearing they are overdosing, drink too much water and provoke hyponaetraemia (water-poisoning). Leah Betts died after drinking 14 pints in just 90 minutes. The recommended amount of water to drink per hour is one pint.

Toxic reactions

Much of the reports of toxic reactions are muddled with overdose or water-poisoning deaths. There is no clear evidence that some people suffer allergic reactions to ecstasy. However, around 10% of Western users do lack a key liver enzyme CYP2D6 needed to break down MDMA. This may make them more sensitive to the effects and more prone to accidental overdose.

Depression

Many weekend users report a mid-week mood dip. This is suspected to be related MDMA's effect on serotonin, but hard evidence is lacking. In heavy users, dips can turn to crashes and depression. However studies suggest this effect reverses after a 2-3 month abstinence.

Positive effects

Users still claim "long lasting improvements in self-awareness, self-esteem, openness and insight into personal problems", reports the study from the University Of Louisiana. In the US, research continues into the use of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy to treat Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

Special report
Drugs in Britain

Net notes
10.07.2002: Cannabis

Useful links
Transform Drug Policy Foundation
talktofrank.com
DrugScope
Cross-government national drug strategy website
Release

shookout (shookout), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 01:16 (twenty years ago)

That wacky Alan McGee.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 01:20 (twenty years ago)

Hahaha.

Traycer Foot (trayce), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 01:25 (twenty years ago)

"Come 'round my grave and we'll play records."

Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 04:18 (twenty years ago)

I want to see someone try and use this to say "you see? E can RUIN YOUR BRANE" so I can point and laugh at them.

Trayce is not a guy! (trayce), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 04:26 (twenty years ago)

Hence the best quote in there:

"This is obviously an extreme case so we should not blow any observations out of proportion," says Dr Kouimtsidis. "But if this is what is happening to very heavy users, it might be an indication that daily use of ecstasy over a long period of time can lead to irreversible memory problems and other cognitive deficits."

So be careful out there, kids: this guy's an extreme case, but you could be doing similar damage even with your casual, moderate, "everyone's doing it" DAILY USE OF ECSTASY OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

nabiscothingy, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 04:52 (twenty years ago)

(NB omigod how is there not a comma after the first clause of that quote? I'm starting to wonder if British people actually secretly talk like robots when Americans aren't looking.)

nabiscothingy, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 04:55 (twenty years ago)

i like how they introduce the paranoia and hallucinations in the 2nd graf but only get around to mentioning the "heavy cannabis use" halfway through.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:08 (twenty years ago)

Yeah as if like, thats by the by and has nothing to do with why this guy's become a bit of a vegetable.

Trayce is not a guy! (trayce), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:10 (twenty years ago)

And of course we all casually take eccies EVERY DAY wtf.

Trayce is not a guy! (trayce), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:11 (twenty years ago)

Imagine how many cigarettes the guy's smoked if he's done 40k Es. Like half a million!

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:15 (twenty years ago)

in between the spliffs. i mean, this guy actually seems kinda like a walking advertisement for the relative harmlessness of casual, non-obsessive drug use. it sounds like he's been blitzing himself nonstop with one thing or another for 16 years and he's still ambulatory.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:18 (twenty years ago)

The defensiveniss on this thread is unbelievable. Like there's anything to defend!

And of course we all casually take eccies EVERY DAY wtf.

I don't think that's what the implication was at all.

Andrew (enneff), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:21 (twenty years ago)

Hahah the hell? I'm not being defensive, I'm laughing at the article!

I could have worded my post better, I meant "casually" is not "every day" when it comes to E (as Nabisco also pointed out was absurd). I was just agreeing it was silly. Geezum.

Trayce is not a guy! (trayce), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:27 (twenty years ago)

I don't think anyone's actually being derisive or defensive, and nobody in the article seems to be making any big claims, but that's the whole point -- somehow it's STILL funny! I mean, come on, there's a quote in there that's all like "popping a couple dozen pills a day is an extreme example, but remember, the same kind of stuff probably happens with, say, everyday drug use." It's like some kind of bizarro-world advert to make me think ecstasy is somehow safer than I thought before -- there are over-the-counter medications where this level of use would have killed him long ago!

nabiscothingy, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:29 (twenty years ago)

Aye, paracetamol in that volume and he'd be dead in 3 days probably.

Trayce is not a guy! (trayce), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:30 (twenty years ago)

I wish you could get Ecstasy for a few bucks here like you can in the UK. :-(

Andrew (enneff), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:30 (twenty years ago)

Im boggled any one person is still alive after 25 eccies a DAY. Surely with that much, the chance of a dud batch must have been a hell of a lot higher?

Trayce is not a guy! (trayce), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:30 (twenty years ago)

xpost haha good point Andrew :(

Trayce is not a guy! (trayce), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:30 (twenty years ago)

I bet I've eaten 40,000 french fries in the last nine years.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:31 (twenty years ago)

They should have called him Mr. E

StanM (StanM), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:43 (twenty years ago)

Although for the record on a lot of levels I feel like this must be kinda bullshit: taking that much actual MDMA would require running through a small fortune! You could hardly trust anyone this jacked up to accurately report his intake, leave alone figure out how much of it was just asprin or speed. Plus you have to assume there's some serious compulsion and bad decision-making involved in getting to this point with a drug that's (a) non-addictive and (b) pretty diminishing-returns with the actual ecstasy part, to the point where pretty early on in the process he surely wasn't getting anything but speed out of it. Which would explain the two-dozen-a-day thing, if he was just keeping his serotonin jacked while being a run-of-the-mill speed freak, but then why was he collapsing at parties? Was he taking the last ten of those all at once in some really lame effort to eke some small amount of actual ecstasy-effects out of it all? It's weird -- the only way you can really believe the story is if you believe that the guy is too jacked-up batshit for you to really believe any story he tells you anyway.

nabiscothingy, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:48 (twenty years ago)

That was an xpost, Australians.

nabiscothingy, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 05:49 (twenty years ago)

E is about 5 quid a pill, or less, in the UK. Even 25 a day is only 125 pounds (but probably much cheaper if buying in qty) which is less than your average smack addict, so!

Andrew (enneff), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 07:17 (twenty years ago)

So maybe he was making them, or knew someone who was.

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 07:29 (twenty years ago)

.. or dealing them, or or or ..

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 07:29 (twenty years ago)

fucking idiot.

Real Goths Don't Wear Black (Enrique), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 08:20 (twenty years ago)

I wonder what his favourite record is?

Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 08:23 (twenty years ago)

hahaha

Real Goths Don't Wear Black (Enrique), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 08:23 (twenty years ago)

(NB omigod how is there not a comma after the first clause of that quote? I'm starting to wonder if British people actually secretly talk like robots when Americans aren't looking.)

haha whenever i read american papers the over-abundance of commas ALWAYS gets to me after a while! i don't think there needs to be a comma there at all, i mean yeah there'd be a small pause for breath if you were speaking but on paper it looks less cluttered and still makes perfect sense without it.

um, the story, haha. 'e's ebeneezer goode!

The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 08:28 (twenty years ago)

Hey, man who took 40,000 ecstasy pills in nine years, What's on your ipod?

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 08:30 (twenty years ago)

haha, whenever i read american papers, the over-abundance of commas ALWAYS gets to me after a while! i don't think there needs to be a comma there at all; i mean yeah, there'd be a small pause for breath if you were speaking, but, on paper, it looks less cluttered, and still makes perfect sense without it.

Real RJGs Don't Wear Black (Enrique), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 08:32 (twenty years ago)

Hi, dere: waht is it, made?

a:mazing, randy. (mark grout), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 08:35 (twenty years ago)

If he was connected enough to get 25 pills a day he'd probably be buying them for £2 each or less, so that's £50 a day which although a lot isn't completely out of the question. I'm not sure how he afforded to smoke large amounts of cannabis on top of that though.

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 08:37 (twenty years ago)

where did he find the time?

Real Goths Don't Wear Black (Enrique), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 08:41 (twenty years ago)

imagine how many bits of paper with strangers' phone numbers he has.

Good Dog (Good Dog), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 08:49 (twenty years ago)

but then why was he collapsing at parties?

Not eating?

"He was having trouble functioning in everyday life."

Which somehow implies that while he was necking 25 yokes a day and smoking a load of spliff, he was doing just fine.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 09:39 (twenty years ago)

Things this makes me think:

1) If he managed to take 40,000 pills without just keeling over at any point, what does this mean for anti-drug spoisports who are always going on about how ecstasy can KILL YOU at any moment (just like it nearly did to Andi in Dawson's Creek)?

2) If he'd eaten 25 chip butties every day for nine years he'd have died of heart failure by now, or at the very least be grossly overweight and probably diabetic. What does this tell us about long-term use of chip butties?

3) Will the Daily "banning smoking in pubs is POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAAAAAD" Mail choose either of these angles? No, probably not.

Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 11:25 (twenty years ago)

http://bieniosek.com/gallery/albums/album36/ravers.jpg

"Our hero!"

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 11:27 (twenty years ago)

If someone ate 40,000 chip butties and didn't die, I'd suggest that maybe they'd for the most part been eating piss poor chip butty substitutes, with little or no chips in them at all

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 11:34 (twenty years ago)

"it sounds like he's been blitzing himself nonstop with one thing or another for 16 years and he's still ambulatory. "

Lightweight.

Keith Richards (Hello Sunshine), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 11:39 (twenty years ago)

I think that's a good point upthread. How in the hell would this guy have been able to hold dpwn a job to support himself (and his habbit(s))?

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 12:58 (twenty years ago)

People who takes lots of pills invariably sell lots of pills.

Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 13:03 (twenty years ago)

You'd think with no short term memory dealing with such an inventory might be problematic.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 13:21 (twenty years ago)

doglatin's 37?

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 13:27 (twenty years ago)

you know you've got an addictive personality when you read something like that and feel mostly jealous.

sunny successor (katharine), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 13:30 (twenty years ago)

Water-poisoning!!!

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 13:30 (twenty years ago)

You'd think with no short term memory dealing with such an inventory might be problematic.

Maybe he tattooed "give no credit" on his hands (with not a thought for the dangerous Memento-esque consequences).

Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 13:32 (twenty years ago)

Maybe he was on 25 pills a day because he kept thinking "Did I already take an E?"

Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 13:32 (twenty years ago)

maybe they were placebos and the whole thing was psychosomatic

sunny successor (katharine), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 13:39 (twenty years ago)

no candy ravers jokes yet? i'm impressed!

Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 13:47 (twenty years ago)

Pills are down to 80pence a pop in Cardiff at the moment.
That's only about twenty quid a day.

Here comes the science bit:
If a normal consumer's comedown happens around tuesday/wednesday after the weekend, Mr E.'s crash must have happened in the third, fourth and fifth years after he stopped taking them. Dark times.

Joe Dunthorne (JoseMaria), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 13:58 (twenty years ago)

80p?? are you kidding me?? last time i had a need to know it was $50-$75

sunny successor (katharine), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 14:03 (twenty years ago)

!

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 14:15 (twenty years ago)

Nah, Joe's right, pills cost buttons these days on account of them being laffable on account of nut-snufflers like this bloke.

Mystic Handyman (noodle vague), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 14:17 (twenty years ago)

I live in Cardiff and am surprised it's that low, although not shocked

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 14:19 (twenty years ago)

well. suddenly 40,000 doesnt seem all that excessive.

sunny successor (katharine), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 14:20 (twenty years ago)

TWAT IN "TAKING A LOT OF CHEAP E" SHOCKAH

Mystic Handyman (noodle vague), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 14:21 (twenty years ago)

80p?

what the fuck is in these pills?

Real Goths Don't Wear Black (Enrique), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 14:22 (twenty years ago)

exactly. im reverting to my sugarpill theory.

whats a twat?

sunny successor (katharine), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 14:25 (twenty years ago)

nut-snufflers!

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 14:27 (twenty years ago)

last time i was in any know about e was a good many years ago and they were cheap as chips, also the people i knew were popping a fair few in one night to no extra effect so they must've been full of crap.

i remember the whole scene just became this "guess how many pills *I* took last night!!" bollocks. yeah? but whatever happened to the fucking 'love'.

Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 14:32 (twenty years ago)

At $20US (which is what they always seem to go for), you'd need a spare $800,000 just for pills, not counting gum, smokes, and lube.

andy, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 15:20 (twenty years ago)

You're assuming that he wasn't just some bad-haircutted Ministry of Sound nut-snuffler, andy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/noodle_vague/Ibiza.jpg

Mystic Handyman (noodle vague), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 15:25 (twenty years ago)

I usually pay around £2 in Brighton (if I'm not given any freebies by mates), but I only buy a couple at a time as I only do a dozen or so a year. If I was inclined to take a dozen a weekend, as quite a few people I know often do, I'd probably bulk buy like they do and pay about 50p a pill.

I'm never sure about the "Pills are full of shit these days" line, I think it's just the law of diminising returns thing. When I started taking them again a couple of year ago (after a five year break), the first one was just as intense a rush as my first ever pill in the early nineties.

This, or course, is quite scary in a way as it shows that if the drug works by using all my serotonin stores up, then I definitely have lower levels now than after abstaining.

Anyway, speaking of Mr "See". He talks about his own Ecstasy use here:

http://bb.4four.org/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=11151

Quote:

I took my 1st E 20 years ago in 1986 by '88 i was on 4 per weekend. In '89 this more than doubled to about 10 per weekend & was probably an average per week until i started spending Septembers / Summers in Ibiza like 7 years ago. during these 4 month summer periods we could double it again to 20 per week. I stopped doing E on my 40th on January 2.
The math: lets say 500 per year which is on avarage 10 per week because there would be weeks i wouldn't take any but other i'd take more than 20. That's over 10,000 Es.
I suffer no side effects that i know about.
My short term memory is fine.
I don't get depressed for no reason.
Maybe i'm a special case but i have no problem that i know about E releted or otherwise.
That's my story with regard E but we're all individuals & i don't recomend anyone else do that anount of such a long period of time unless you take 5HTP on a regular basis & use anti oxidents to help flush it through without putting to much stress on the organs.

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 16:46 (twenty years ago)

I've never been fond of e (too artificial, "how come we never hang out?" etc.) so the idea of taking ten a weekend for years at a time sounds like living hell.

andy --, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 16:49 (twenty years ago)

GOD YES. MUCH BETTER TAKING NATURAL DRINKS LIKE BEER OR DOPE THAT AREN'T PROCESSED AT ALL.

A Van That's Loaded With Weapons (noodle vague), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 16:51 (twenty years ago)

Haha!

I think andy means the feelings of empathy are artificial, not the chemicals.

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 16:59 (twenty years ago)

Exactly, I wasn't speaking of the chemicals, I was speaking of the results. "Wow, man, I forget how cool you are, we have to start hanging out more, ahhhhhhhh...." Three hours later: "Err, I'll, uh, email you."

(And actually, most beer doesn't have much additives at all, they're not really needed. Wine and spirits as well. I worked in a winery and I do recall talk about a product called iniglass [made from sturgeon's guts] that was used as a clarifying agent by some brewers, but I don't think it's that common.)

andy --, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 17:01 (twenty years ago)

andy i've found that several hours of deafening music can be very effective at walling out those pitfalls.

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 17:06 (twenty years ago)

(xpost) Hey man, know where I c'n score some isinglass?

Nadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 17:07 (twenty years ago)

TWAT IN "TAKING A LOT OF CHEAP E" SHOCKAH

Comic genius.

mikedup, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 17:09 (twenty years ago)

And dope: are you speaking of pop? It's a little difficult to compare a natural plant like weed with a highly-processed synthetic methamphetamine, isn't it?

andy --, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 17:20 (twenty years ago)

"Pot," that is. Ehem.

andy --, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 17:21 (twenty years ago)

Yes, that's right, natural things are good for you aren't they? Bad bad chemicals, bad bad scientists.

Nadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 17:23 (twenty years ago)

Exactly.

andy --, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 17:29 (twenty years ago)

a highly-processed synthetic methamphetamine

Splitting hairs hear, but MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine) is not a methamphetamine (Crystal Meth), despite the name.

You're not the only one to get them confused, however. A couple of years ago some researchers did a lot of MDMA research on Rats, only for someone to point out - after all their expensive research had been finalised - that they had been giving them Methamphetamine.

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 18:26 (twenty years ago)

I'll bet the cages were tidy, that should have tipped them off.

andy --, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 18:33 (twenty years ago)

The Guardian made several attempts to find the man without success.

"hello, this is the guardian. are you the man who took 40,000 Es and can't even remember his own fucking name?"

"er ..."

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 5 April 2006 14:21 (twenty years ago)

Mr "See" has missed out one key side effect - the one that makes him TALK ABOUT DRUGS LIKE IT'S INTERESTING AND ANYONE GIVES A FUCK.

Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 5 April 2006 14:34 (twenty years ago)

The moral of this story is plain and stern. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT take more than a moderate amount of ecstasy pills in any one calendar year, or you will pay a heavy price, as this man did. Stop when you get to 500 or thereabouts.

Aimless (Aimless), Wednesday, 5 April 2006 14:39 (twenty years ago)

The man, known as Mr A in the report in the scientific journal Psychosomatics, started using ecstasy at 21. For the first two years his use was an average of five pills per weekend. Gradually this escalated until he was taking around three and a half pills a day. At the peak, the man was taking an estimated 25 pills every day for four years.

This doesn't make sense. Why would you say that his use escalated until he was taking 3.5 pills per day, and then in the next sentence say that he was taking 25 pills a day for four years? That's like saying "When I was born I was 1 foot tall, and I continued growing until I was 2 foot tall. I'm now 5 foot 6." I think they meant to say it was estimated that he was taking 25 pills every week (which is roughly 3.5 x 7) for four years. 25 pills x 52 weeks x 4 years = 5,200 pills. 25 pills x 365 days x 4 years = 36,500 pills. Either they've got the maths wrong, or the English wrong.

I think he was probably taking about 25 pills a week, which would be an average of 3.5 a day, but he was probably doing at least 20 at the weekend and just a few cheeky halves in the week. That would answer the questions upthread about lack of effect after relentless use / non-addictive nature / how did he hold down a job. Then either an innumerate journalist, or a doctor trusting the word of a confused and vague man, has suddenly turned that into a 40,000-pill habit.

Teh HoBBler (the pirate king), Wednesday, 5 April 2006 14:52 (twenty years ago)

should i post the lyrics to "ebeneezer goode" right now?!?

Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 5 April 2006 15:16 (twenty years ago)

Original article:
http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/47/1/86.pdf

e, Wednesday, 5 April 2006 15:26 (twenty years ago)

Ah, from that report: "for the first two years he took 5 tablets every weekend, escalating to an average daily use of 3.5 tablets for the next 3 years, and further escalation to an average of 25 tablets daily over the next 4 years". So it was bad English, rather than bad maths, in the report at the top of the thread. That report also says he had a history of polydrug abuse including solvents, amphetamines, LSD, cocaine, heroin and benzodiazepines (whatever they are).

Teh HoBBler (the pirate king), Wednesday, 5 April 2006 15:44 (twenty years ago)

benzodiazepines (whatever they are)

aww...sweet

sunny successor (katharine), Wednesday, 5 April 2006 15:46 (twenty years ago)

That report also says he had a history of polydrug abuse...

...which would tend to limit any valid conclusions one might draw about MDMA abuse from this case, wouldn't it?

Not that I have ever taken MDMA, but I have lived through the demonization of a great many recreational drugs and this seems to fit the profile of sensationalized reporting and improperly-drawn conclusions like a hand in a glove.

Any drug that has a pharmacological effect is also powerful enough to have undesirable side effects when overused or overdosed. (Aspirin has killed more people than anyone cares to admit.) Therefore, it is reasonable to assume MDMA is also capable of some nasty effects. So, let's all get hysterical about it, ok?

Aimless (Aimless), Wednesday, 5 April 2006 17:02 (twenty years ago)

fair play to the guy hes a legend

clownburster, Saturday, 8 April 2006 16:43 (twenty years ago)

"just because you like chocolate cake doesn't mean you eat it every day" - plastikman

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 8 April 2006 17:34 (twenty years ago)

I really want to take lots of drugs right now. I think it's the sunshine. It's making me so into everythang!

Ally C (Ally C), Saturday, 8 April 2006 18:24 (twenty years ago)

clownburster otm

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Saturday, 8 April 2006 19:24 (twenty years ago)

Is anyone else trying to figure out how many pills THEY'VE taken in the last nine years? A very rough estimate for me would be somewhere around 300.

chap who would dare to be a stone cold thug (chap), Saturday, 8 April 2006 19:27 (twenty years ago)

like 10? :(

Fight the Real Enemy -- Tasti D-Lite (ex machina), Saturday, 8 April 2006 19:53 (twenty years ago)


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