Americans are a rather sickly nation, apparently

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4965034.stm

"The healthiest Americans had similar disease rates to the least healthy English, the Journal of the American Medical Association study found"

― Si.C@rter (SiC@rter), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 08:45 (nineteen years ago)

this is surprising how?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 08:49 (nineteen years ago)

As the article says, it applies even when factors such as obesity are factored into the equation - I did find that somewhat surprising.

― Si.C@rter (SiC@rter), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 11:51 (nineteen years ago)

it's stress

― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 12:59 (nineteen years ago)

Miller Lite vs. Sam Smith's

― TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 13:08 (nineteen years ago)

growth hormones in the milk

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 13:09 (nineteen years ago)

Ha, so the old line about bottled-up emotions making you die young = the opposite of true.

I dunno, possible explanations: (a) food quality differences even apart from the ones that lead to obesity, (b) differences in activity levels, and (c) surely the NHS means taking a slightly different approach toward health maintenance and disease prevention?

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 13:16 (nineteen years ago)

Also yes, less stress! Because seriously, sometimes I think it's less that the British are more reserved in their emotions and more that they just have less of them -- you guys have this long history and class structure and everything within which you seem very content to situate yourselves, kind of at peace with your being from the beginning, whereas US culture puts a lot of striving and dissatisfaction onto people, as if the engine everything runs on is turmoil and discontent. (Alternately: you just have less yelling and annoyance to deal with.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 13:29 (nineteen years ago)

I think the first poster on slashdot made the best point. typical vacation days: 10 vs. 28.

― TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 13:33 (nineteen years ago)

I really don't buy that horseshit about less stress. I've gotten into a lot of drunken conversations with other americans and none of them yet has hauled off and socked me in the fucking face for no apparent reason at all.

― TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 13:34 (nineteen years ago)

I think your C is the only one I agree with, nabisco.
"free" healthcare for all should presumably go a LOONNNNNG way towards improving preventative care for the entire populace.

― TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 13:47 (nineteen years ago)

America = no livable cities, suburbs instead of villages.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 13:50 (nineteen years ago)

hey now, we have at least three livable cities, possibly even FOUR. I don't know what the fuck a village is though, are those the things dotting the countryside while we speed by in the bus?

― TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 13:55 (nineteen years ago)

Haha oh do we have PLENTY of villages.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:04 (nineteen years ago)

lols all round

― the Enrique who acts like some kind of good taste gestapo (Enrique), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:05 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.nacel.fr/images/american_village/nacel_couverture.gif

― TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:07 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know what the fuck a village is though

http://www.e-e-m.de/titeluebersich/EastEntMed/Heidi/heidi_Packshot1410.jpg

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:08 (nineteen years ago)

i wonder what makes American cities un-livable and Euro cities livable?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

I mean, consider the size of this country relative to the UK: it's not all national forest out there!

xpost
Yeah I talk about your contentment in full knowledge that you will LOL at me forever, but I seriously think there's a kernel of truth to it. (And I make the comparison less out of knowledge of what the UK is like and more out of definitely knowledge of what the US is like, which is to say chock full of rage.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.portalbaw.com.br/velho/vilage.jpg

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

200 posts by etc etc etc

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:10 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, Colin, expound on the "livable cities" point because America DOES have a few that I'd say are almost European in their livability...or perhaps the Euro cities are almost New York in their livability, I don't know.

The vacation days + lack of public health care has a lot to do with this but this has already been said upthread.

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:11 (nineteen years ago)

We have villages out the ass.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:11 (nineteen years ago)

is it possible that the explanation is "Self-obsessed/easy access to medical care Americans go to the doctor a lot more than Britons who suck it up/have to wait a few months"?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:11 (nineteen years ago)

is it possible that the explanation is "Britishes drink more"?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:12 (nineteen years ago)

is it possible that the explanation is "Self-obsessed/easy access to medical care Americans go to the doctor a lot more than Britons who suck it up/have to wait a few months"?

What are you even talking about?

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

is it possible that the explanation is, as always, Britain is a tiny, more predominantly urban country and America a huge, less urban one?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah I talk about your contentment in full knowledge that you will LOL at me forever, but I seriously think there's a kernel of truth to it. (And I make the comparison less out of knowledge of what the UK is like and more out of definitely knowledge of what the US is like, which is to say chock full of rage.)

-- nabisco (--...), May 3rd, 2006.

probably MOST of england is quite laid back, just not lahndahn. we do have the highest working hours per week in europe, despite the 20+ days off.

― the Enrique who acts like some kind of good taste gestapo (Enrique), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:15 (nineteen years ago)

bear in mind we're just talking about white, middle-aged people here.

― the Enrique who acts like some kind of good taste gestapo (Enrique), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

I can't figure out if Gabbneb is being 100% serious, 100% sarcastic, or some weird in-between.

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:32 (nineteen years ago)

drinking more, being more urban, and not bothering going to the doctor -- our national secret.

― the Enrique who acts like some kind of good taste gestapo (Enrique), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:36 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think having the NHS really makes people more likely to get little niggles checked out or anything, if anyone was implying that

it is unfortunate, though, that discussion often involves UK peeps guessing abt US peeps and vice versa and, like, enrique guessing abt something outside of london--not sure anything useful can come of it!!!!

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:36 (nineteen years ago)

hey man i lived outside london. cambridge, oxford, shit like that.

― the Enrique who acts like some kind of good taste gestapo (Enrique), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:38 (nineteen years ago)

"We cannot blame either bad lifestyle or inadequate medical care as the main culprits in these socio-economic differences in health.
"We should look for explanation to the circumstances in which people live and work.

"We have to take a much broader look at social determinants of health in both countries.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

whereas US culture puts a lot of striving and dissatisfaction onto people, as if the engine everything runs on is turmoil and discontent.

It's all that huddling and yearning, Nabisco.

The holiday thing is OTM I think, as is the fact that sick days aren't just viewed as days you happen to be sick, but are weighed up against your entitlement etc. If I am off sick here, that's that, I come back to work when I'm better - nothing happens to any holiday entitlement I may have.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

N-RIKAY KEEPIN IT REALZ xpost

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:40 (nineteen years ago)

but gabbneb your health care statement was completely, balls-out wrong vis a vis American health care, so do you care to explain it or not? Keep in mind the number of Americans on ILX alone who are lacking health insurance, and this is a group that is almost entirely composed of white middle-classers for crying out loud, never mind actual poor people or minorities or etc etc. So please define whatever the hell you're talking about.

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

If I am off sick here, that's that, I come back to work when I'm better - nothing happens to any holiday entitlement I may have.

-- Markelby (boyincorduro...), May 3rd, 2006.

hmm, i'm not allowed to be ill on mondays or fridays -- also don't you work for your dad or something? < /jaymc>

― the Enrique who acts like some kind of good taste gestapo (Enrique), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

When I was in Florida, earlier this year, I was struck by how many pharmacies I saw, and how well-stocked the big supermarkets were w/indigestion tablets, headache pills, sleeping pills, leaky bum pills etc - a far bigger range than anything you'd see in a UK supermarket (of course the range of eg whipped cream and waffles was much much bigger too)

Also: none of the US tv chefs seemed to ever offer a 'healthy option'

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

And yes everyone stressing the fact that the United States is at the absolute bottom of the barrel for western countries in terms of vacation and sick leave is correct about the amount of stress this puts on ppl!

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

SUVs are not cool in the UK.

― TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

Fuck it, I'm emigrating.

― TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

the vacation thing in the US is nutsy, how did it happen?

― the Enrique who acts like some kind of good taste gestapo (Enrique), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

msot Americans on ILX are also in their 20s/early 30s and/or more likely than the population at large to be partly self-employed

yes, I get that not everyone has health insurance, but the vast majority of Americans do, and they don't have to wait as long as Britishes for care in the conventional wisdom. i also think it likely, stereotypically speaking, that Americans are more hypochondriachal.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

actually waiting lists in the UK aren't *that bad*, i think it's more a (esp among males) national character thing that you just don't go. i haven't been to a doctor in five years.

OR A DENTIST < /american zing>

― the Enrique who acts like some kind of good taste gestapo (Enrique), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:48 (nineteen years ago)

see what i mean? there's less 'disease' because there are fewer doctor visits to diagnose it.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:48 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, I definitely agree that Americans with health insurance are more hypochondriachal in general, going into doctors and insisting on purchasing whatever god knows what drug they saw on tv and don't even know what it does. But this is an incredibly small segment of (white, older, middle/upper class) American society, gabbneb. Also re: waiting, ever dealt with an HMO? Or had to deal with a public clinic? This is silly, it's a complete non-argument. It's conventional wisdom, this is why yr Hillary Clintons et al wanted to create a public health care system for heaven's sake.

xpost THIS HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT PPL ACTUALLY GO TO THE DOCTOR, I UNDERSTAND THAT PPL UNDER THE AGE OF 40 AVOID DOCTORS LIKE THE PLAGUE UNTIL SOMETHING IS TERRIBLY WRONG WITH THEM. So this is basically theoretical in nature and comparing old ppl to old ppl.

Enrique: I have no idea other than some kind of psycho puritan wayback machine thing that never went away.

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:49 (nineteen years ago)

insert "certain" between "that" and "Americans" on the first line of my post.

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:50 (nineteen years ago)

OK now I don't get what you're talking about gabbneb - are you saying the US health care situation is actually not all that bad or something? Because maybe you should alert the BBC who have apparently got their story wrong?

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:51 (nineteen years ago)

I was at the hospital, last night

they were a bit rubbish

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:51 (nineteen years ago)

Skipping 16 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

The cities thing: I'm not denying that the US has four or five fantastic cities, but given the size of the US, that's a pretty awful statistic (most European countries the size and population of a midsized US state have four or five fantastic cities). I think the village thing is more important, though. I just think that the places where a lot of Usarians aren't exactly condusive to anything resembling a healthy active lifestyle. And of course the disastrous healthcare system contributes to the problem.

Oh, I agree with what you're saying totally. There is absolutely no pedestrian culture in the United States outside of a small number of cities, which is a big issue (and even some of the large cities that are theoretically pedestrian friendly are basically car parks). But it's such an ingrained problem, that it seems unlikely to have any fixing. Unless of course gas finally gets to be $23.94 per gallon this summer, and then ppl will have to walk.

xpost US Employers would still work their people to the death regardless.

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 15:09 (nineteen years ago)

Also, Walmart shifting the burden of health care onto government and employees' spouces' insurance.

Many smaller "college towns" (Providence) are quite pedestrian friendly within the core, but you'll likely need a car to go get stuff out in the sprawl.

― JW (ex machina), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 15:10 (nineteen years ago)

Depends, really. In many of them the "core" is just a very tiny strip of one or two streets (Chapel Hill, Tempe, Amherst). Providence seemed to me to be much better, and I was surprised Amherst wasn't much more like that actually.

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 15:16 (nineteen years ago)

yes Jon, 250 of 300 million Americans = the vast majority

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 15:19 (nineteen years ago)

gabbneb, I think the point is, those 250 million Americans pay twice as much for health insurance as British people do and somehow end up sicker!

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

ok, my impression...

big cities that are highly walkable/mass transit-oriented - NYC, DC, Boston, Philly, SF

big cities that have a walkable core and an at least satisfactory public transit system - Chicago, Seattle, Portland, Baltimore, Houston

small, walkable cities - New Haven, Providence, Newark, Charleston, Savannah, probably lots of other East Coasters?

not quite walkable, but world-class - LA

what about Denver? Cleveland? San Diego? Vegas? STL? Buffalo? Burlington? Tuscon? Santa Fe? Memphis? NoLA*? Madison? Ann Arbor?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:05 (nineteen years ago)

Cincinnati?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:06 (nineteen years ago)

Milwaukee? Austin? San Antone?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:09 (nineteen years ago)

WALKING IN LA
WALKING IN LA
NOBODY WALKS IN LA

― TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:11 (nineteen years ago)

NOW THE OLD BOY MAY BE BARELY BREATHIN
BUT THE HEART OF ROCK AND ROLL
HEART OF ROCK AND ROLL IS STILL BEAT-INNNNNNNNNN AHHH

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:13 (nineteen years ago)

Houston's core isn't really residential, though

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:14 (nineteen years ago)

DEE TROIT!

(sax hits)

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:16 (nineteen years ago)

Walking in LA is highly underrated.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:16 (nineteen years ago)

CENTURY BOULEVARD...
WE LOVE IT!
VICTORY BOULEVARD...
SANTA MONICA BOULEVARD...
WE LOVE IT!
6TH STREET...
WE LOVE IT! WE LOVE IT! WE LOVE IT!

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:17 (nineteen years ago)

I had the impression that Detroit was made for horseless carriages?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:18 (nineteen years ago)

and I thought there was some transit in ATL, but pretty limited?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:20 (nineteen years ago)

gabbneb i was just singing the song, i lost track of what's being talked about here a long time ago. sorry.

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:22 (nineteen years ago)

am I right about Chicago and SF? I'm not sure whether either doesn't really belong in the other category.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:23 (nineteen years ago)

I avoid doctors. After a certain age it's such an obsessive trawling-for-cancer. They want to palpate you and xray you and run tests. GET AWAY!!!!

Dentists too. They always say that the xrays "don't expose you to any more radiation than the sun does" right before they RUN FOR COVER.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:24 (nineteen years ago)

MPLS/STPL has shit public transit, but kickass bike infrastructure.

― John Justen (johnjusten), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:27 (nineteen years ago)

East Asian countries probably have more stress, less livability (in certain ways) in cities, go to the doctor too often, and still better health.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:28 (nineteen years ago)

Oh yes. The highly vaunted public health of Indonesia.

It should be noted that our bike paths aren't terribly useful during our season of UNFATHOMABLE DEATH FREEZE.

― John Justen (johnjusten), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:37 (nineteen years ago)

God just hates us.

― The Mercury Krueger (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:39 (nineteen years ago)

is that Pat Robertson's response?

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:40 (nineteen years ago)

Walking in LA is highly underrated.

LA's got some lonnnng-ass blocks that you have to walk to get to an intersection or an avenue where buses run and there are stores and whatnot. whoever designed the streets designed them for car traffic (fewer red lights, etc), which in turn made everyone go out and buy cars and made LA a "car culture." but there are parts of it that are more walkable.

― jbr with a z (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 16:50 (nineteen years ago)

ihttp://www.powerskip.de/PIC8.jpg

― TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:16 (nineteen years ago)

am I right about Chicago

chicago's public transportation system is way better than boston's and it's a highly walkable city. much better for bicycling than boston as well.

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:26 (nineteen years ago)

You guys realize there are really pleasant cities in the US that aren't huge and/or famous, right?

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:33 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, i'd take albuquerque over houston any day. of course i'd also take bhopal over houston 3 days out of the week.

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:35 (nineteen years ago)

chicago's public transportation system is way better than boston's

in what sense?

it's a highly walkable city

you can walk to every major neighborhood with ease?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:38 (nineteen years ago)

i walked 15 blocks in los angeles a week ago and it took AGES. i didnt know a block could be so much farther in one city

― i've dreamt of rubies! (Mandee), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:45 (nineteen years ago)

and the uk is the most unhealthy place in europe? it gotta be. I cant believe how unhealthy people are in this country.

― Lovelace (Lovelace), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:45 (nineteen years ago)

chicago's public transportation system is way better than boston's

in what sense?

first off that it runs past last call. secondly that the trains are faster. thirdly the bus system puts boston to shame.

you can walk to every major neighborhood with ease?

within reason. i mean, it's a BIG city. if you have to go from rodger's park to bridgeview you're not going to walk. but yes, depending on your starting point you can walk easily from one neighborhood to the next. it's a lot harder to walk to east boston than it is to get to any of chicago's neighborhoods.

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:46 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not sure any place where you could "walk to every major neighborhood with ease" would count as a city, as it would have to be really, really small. "Walkable" should denote something more like the ability to perform lots of daily tasks -- shopping, errands, entertainment -- on foot, and pleasantly so. A lot of Chicago is indeed like that.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:47 (nineteen years ago)

Walkable" should denote something more like the ability to perform lots of daily tasks -- shopping, errands, entertainment -- on foot, and pleasantly so.

yeah, i haven't owned a car in years and with the exception of grocery shopping it really hasn't impacted me. and if i take my old lady shopping cart with me even the grocery shopping is the same. i'd also say that the majority of people i hang out with at shows bars etc. take public transportation.

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:51 (nineteen years ago)

so is Chicago more walkable than SF?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:51 (nineteen years ago)

don't know, never lived there.

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:53 (nineteen years ago)

Minneapolis public transport now has the structure to be really good, if not the timespan or frequency (it's OK if you're in Mpls or first-rung suburbs but teh suck otherwise; I take a taxi home if it's after 10). My mom remembers the trams and keeps nagging whatever pundits are on TV (by shouting at TV in corner basically) for them to return - possibly because if they did the value of her business premises on Excelsior Boulevard would skyrocket. Oh and yes the kickass bike paths rule when windchill factor a non-issue. It's also more walkable than people credit. FWIW I do not drive, which is fine in London but a bitch for moving etc.

People should walk more because endorphins are good, and yeah lock thread vacations help. Also British workers have better job security and benefits that don't just include medical care - not having to talk about personal health issues and PLANS or why your insurance is expensive or drug testing etc. with employers or insurers just makes people fell, well, less compromised as a negotiant.

― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 17:58 (nineteen years ago)

You guys realize there are really pleasant cities in the US that aren't huge and/or famous, right?

Yes, but if they can't provide Vietnamese food at 2 am clearly they are inferior.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 18:00 (nineteen years ago)

tell the vietnamese to provide for themselves! this is america! love it or leave it! etc etc

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 18:02 (nineteen years ago)

though it is true that philadelphia's public transportation infrastructure is better than, say, boston's, only someone who hasn't lived or spent much time there would call it adequate. e.g., try getting from south street to somewhere in the far northeast w/t a car sometime!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 18:17 (nineteen years ago)

Ned, Mpls. can do this -- Mexican too. And Ethiopian.

― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 18:23 (nineteen years ago)

And all within the comfort of an Applebees!

― John Justen (johnjusten), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 18:27 (nineteen years ago)

Chicago's not as walkable as SF cuz of the weather.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 18:35 (nineteen years ago)

Chicago's also more spread out, larger, etc. SF is pretty tiny, 7 miles wide.

btw, I don't own a car and walk/mass transit everywhere here in SF.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 18:36 (nineteen years ago)

You guys realize there are really pleasant cities in the US that aren't huge and/or famous, right?

I had no idea! Tell me more

― dar1a g (daria g), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 18:40 (nineteen years ago)

i think we need some triangulation for this thread to go up a notch -- perhaps a study comparing england's health with, i don't know, finland. we are called 'the sick man of europe', and not by surfer bros.

― the Enrique who acts like some kind of good taste gestapo (Enrique), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 18:41 (nineteen years ago)

Chicago's also more spread out, larger, etc. SF is pretty tiny, 7 miles wide.

yeah but we have no hills here domino. it makes staggering home easier if not walking.

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 18:43 (nineteen years ago)

granted the few afternoons I've spent in Chicago were blessed with good weather and I didn't have any trouble walking/mass transit-ing around to my various destinations (ie, museums, the ballpark, Dusty Grooves)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 18:54 (nineteen years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.