die you fucking bitch

unfortunately it was last year and she's made several appearances since then, so it can't have been too strong. Anyway, are we all having a party when she does go?

Might as well hoist a pint on the day, sure.

Slow painful deaths on the deserving? You want me to list every candidate? It would be easily to gun them down, but that would take away the fun.

That'd be cool if she spent the rest of her days in a crime-ridden shithole estate and got the same level of medical 'service' as most people her age do in this country, and had to travel by rail to get it.

Somehow I thought you were a Thatcher...not fan, but a vague admirer?

me a thatcherite?

huey from the boondocks has his hate book..i thought ehre would be a good place to start a communal hate list.

i don't like this at all.

in terms of malice, justified or not, wishing death only makes sense if you believe in an afterlife complete w.heaven and hell (and that s/he who chooses who ends up where shares yr politics): if we're talking abt unworthy spiteful impulse, i pretty much like the idea that La MagZoR is daily having to watch her legacy dissolved and/or ruined

Sorry, Geoff, I meant Dave Q.

Hate book = fun.

if i said who i'd like to see go out in as painful and humiliating a way as possible, the Secret Service would be at my apartment.

along dave q's line, if there was any justice Ronnie "Alzheimer's" Reagan would be spending his last days homeless in a Nicaraguan slum.

How do you know we're not already in your apartment, Tad?

Thatcher, Reagan and Mulroney can all go out in a triple murder suicide with Kim Campbell as the culprit.

word, what d.q. said.

"I hope you die soon!" - Harry Enfield in a silly ass wig in swingin' '60s movie pastiche.

I'm with Ethan. An older woman (who ruled because she was elected to do so) has had a stroke here. Besides, how compassionate and progressive are your politics if you wish pain and death on people of a different ideological bent?

Quite agree with Sundar. Nothing funny about anyone having a stroke.

There is still too much of this sort of stuff on ILE which fails to enlighten, amuse or even shock. Some people here need to grow up.

Wishing pain and death on the powerful is harmless, because it's ALL most people can do. Whereas establishment figures inflict pain and death on people all the time without even thinking about it, fuck 'em. If I (or anyone) was in power we'd probably do the same thing, with the best reasons in the world of course, and if our heads weren't fully wedged in our asses we'd understand rationally why our underlings would want to piss on our graves. Then again, many politicians are idealists - i.e., their hold on reality is tenuous, to the point where they think people might love them

What Marcello and Sundar said.

One of the most powerful moments in "Conspiracy" — it seemed to me, anyway, tho maybe I was just projecting — was the point where Heydrich and Eichmann reveal that the machinery of gas chambers is actually already in effect, that it is already practicable to exterminate not 60,000 a day but 60,000 an *hour*: across the watching faces — faces of semi-powerful men being bullied and manipulsated by more powerful men, men driven by continued rsentlment at powerlessness even after they'd achieved more power than most ever dream of – flitted several contradictory expressions. Horror that the wish of pain and death on others can and has become real vied with delight at same. The ferocity of a generalised wishing of death — some of those at that table wished death on others at that table; some wished death on Hitelr himself (not present) — was switched to a particular (undeserving)* target, the Jews. They bore the brunt of all Germany's social rage, including (surely?) much hidden rage at the Nazis themselves.

Deserving vs undeserving? This is actually the question Geoff is asking: is EVERYONE undeserving, as a target? Were the participants in the Wannsee conference (many of whom died coortably in their beds, long after the war was over) undeserving also? If deserving, how do we express this?

Merely wishing is, yes, harmless; making wishes real is (by defn) not effect-free, therefore almost certainly not harmless. Expressing wishes is very very complicated borderline territory, because it's partly a demand (i wish and i shall have) and partly an exorcism (i state my wish because i know i can never have it).

Progressive politics makes claims that it channels these kinds of angers in "better" ways, more productive: I appreciate (some of) the motive behind such claims, but nevertheless I *really really* stay suspicious about the emotional naivety hardwired into them. Things merely repressed or set aside will return to bite you.

Gandalf: "Do not speak of such things!" This at least is ridiculous advice: you can and MUST speak of such things, since you can only cauterise your own ugliest impulses if you know and understand them.

As stated up-thread, I find wishing death more baffling than horrible: it seems to me that [nasty politician z] is in this way being let off the hook, at the expense of surviving relatives not responsible for [z]'s outrages. But surely that means that my wishing Long Life but *not* Prosperity is a meaner spasm still? I don't want you to suffer physically, I want you to suffer INTELLECTUALLY: I want you to live to see your works mocked and ruined...

Well, that's pretty much what I said. I didn't wish 'death' on anybody. I just would like to see somebody have to negotiate through the fucking sewer they helped create, from a position of weakness for once.

Corollary - like 'Running Man'-type justice, if they can get through it, more power to them, debt to society paid. As long as there's still that 'out', why feel morally dubious about wishing suffering on people?

i guess what i'm getting at is like pinochet and kissinger etal thatcher inflicted pain and countless suffering on many many people...and i wish for one moment she would be able to feel that ebofre her death, ebcause otherwise when the predicatble lamenting and state funerals happen, it will all be a fucking sham.

I’m ashamed to say there are a few people whose death would cause more joy than sadness but Margaret Thatcher isn’t one of them. For one thing she is already politically dead. By the end of her premiership even her own party had had enough, overthrowing her in a squalid, and not terribly democratic, coup. Her successors appeal lay, as far as I’m able to fathom, in being as far removed from her personality as possible.

Many forget that even in the mid-80s she was never personally popular and time hasn't been at all kind to her reputation. She damaged her own party during the last election with her ‘never’ to the euro comments. Labour felt confident enough to slur William Hague with her image, unthinkable in ‘92 or ‘97 .

As a former long-serving PM her death will inevitably provoke some level of "lamenting” in the UK and a “state funeral" but I suspect the real grieving will be limited to a very small band of Telegraph readers. She seems to spend much her time in the US these days where she receives far more respect, and considerably more cash, doing turns as the Cold War Warrior-ess in the Reagan nostalgia after- dinner-speaker circuit.

When she finally attempted to use some influence in the House of Lords on a matter of public interest the cause she chose, Pinochet, only succeeded in reminding everyone what a nasty piece of work she was. His lawyers could have been forgiven for telling her to shut up.

The day she resigned was the happiest of my life (for a no. of reasons). The day she dies will barely register.

Goeff said *thatcher inflicted pain and countless suffering on many many people*

Who was taken to the gas chambers? Who was taken from their families in the middle of he night and imprisoned, tortured and killed? Who was butchered by suicide bombers acting in her name?

Reserve your hate for those who really deserve it.

thatcher is on first name terms with general pinochet, repsonsible for the death of up to 30 thousand people. she was commander at the time the belgrano was sunk. she put many out work and below the poverty lines, and she was invovled in the sale of arms and chemical weapons to the iraquis during the iran/iraq war. British (and australian) military equipment was also used against the east timorese, and her govt carried out some pretty intoleraable stuff in nthern ireland, from memory...my hatred is justified.

I have no moral qualms about wishing harm and suffering on people who have no problem inflicting harm and suffering on people 4REAL. Give 'em a taste of their own medicine I say - in this instance Dave Q's Thatcher-on-a-sink-estate idea is GRATE.

(Although I don't see why people make so much fuss about the General Belgrano)

(because they lied DG: if they had fronted it out at the time — eg yes it was sailing away but it was still a threat — no one wd even remember it) (heh John Nott was STILL blustering abt the facts in the many I Love the Falklands progs that have been on recently)

(I wasn't aware of the lying bit, I thought the fuss was about it being sunk wot seems perfectly fair to me)

I think I've been down this road before, and frankly I find wishing death on people rather futile and sad. As Q says above it is the act of a powerles person. Empower yrself people.

Much as I disliked her I don't wish death on her. In fact I'm bracing myself for the day she does and we get all the revisionist stuff. Remember when Nixon died? Facking hell.

"Empower yrself people."
Is Ptee encouraging us all to be ASSASSINS?

Maybe in the long run Reagan and Bush II will have caused more pain an anguish (by perhaps making it impossible for the U.S. ever to build a sane tax code, a sane environmental policy, a sane foreign policy; by possibly setting the stage to making the world uninhabitable), but when in office Lyndon Johnson caused for more pain in the world. And I'm sure that Johnson was a far better human being than Reagan or Bush II, a couple of shallow, cheerful fools who are too thoughtless to comprehend the pain that they cause. Nixon? He's a subject for further research. (Well, so are Reagan and Bush II, for that matter, but why bother?) I hated Nixon, and he himself was a man frequently driven by his hatreds, but the fundamental motive of his policies wasn't to inflict his hatred on everyone, and he wouldn't have sold out the economy or the environment for the sake of his campaign contributors, and he actually tried to think his way through to the consequences of his policies - something that Reagan and Bush II were/are too thoughtless to do. I'm incensed that Bush II imagines he's in the right but doesn't truly think. Nixon tried to think things through, he did remarkably fucked-up things in the process, he was a truly dangerous man, dangerous to the U.S. state and to democracy, not just to the Vietnamese, but somehow I ended up wishing him peace. (No, when the Nixon commemorative stamp was issued and people started putting them on letters sideways so that when the stamp was canceled "I'd finally get to see Nixon behind bars," I laughed and thought this was great. I've got mixed feelings.) So where am I with these ramblings? What I'd wish(ed) on such people is that they attain a true understanding of who they are and what they do, and suffer if need be from the knowledge, but also learn. (But then I'd wish that on myself.) Nixon and Johnson were capable of learning (and Johnson surely suffered from self-knowledge, whereas Nixon may have only suffered from defeat, but I still think he was capable), which somehow makes them higher in my mind than the Reagans of the world, even if someone like Reagan was relatively malice free. Maybe my wishes here are too aesthetic. King Lear would have been a bore if he'd learned nothing about himself.

send rupert murdoch to hell.

"Reserve your hate for those who really deserve it."

Couldn't agree more. Any former PM who invited terrorists to 10 Downing Street for tea and biscuits, and encouraged murderers of women and children to "keep up the good work" deserves the contempt and condemnation of us all.

Put it this way, I know which Hefner song I'll have on endless repeat on the day that Thatcher dies.

Trevor you masochist!

Well I wouldn't actually listen to it. It's more of a symbolic gesture really.

Surely a better symbolic gesture would be to form a band called 'Thatcher' if only to have a song called 'The Day That Hefner Split'. The lyrics would go 'HOORAY HOORAY HOORAY HOORAY'!

Thatcher is a GRATE name for a band. Bettah still: THATCH.

Sussed ritual which YOU TOO can witness this Sunday - Alex T getting drunk and bellowing his Hefner-baiting version of TDTTD i.e. "The Day That John Peel Dies"

OH NO someone's going to be playing that shit? I must stock up on earplugs. What I do to explore Historic Oxford eh?

"someone" has been known to play it, and it's not me so as our American cuzzins say "You do the math."

Hefner + Me = BLIND RAGE OR EARPLUGS.

Nobody saw me dancing to said Hefner track at the last Sussed, and certainly not with the locals. No way.

I do not mind other people dancing to it, as long as they do not mind me shouting and flicking the V's at the DJs or 'DO YOU NOT HAVE ANY GODAMMN PRINCIPLES' at the aforesaid boogiers. The principle is of course that Hefner = rubbidge, Thatcher is NOT dead, and Hefner = rubbidge THAT SHOULD NOT BE ENDORSED.

I've never heared a single Hefner song in my life. R U JEALOUS?

Spoken with the sweeping totalitarianism of a true Thatcherite.

i think they have been played in my vicinity, but i acquired an "indie blind spot" (or "blur" as it's known) somewhere around 1992 and that has helped immensely.

Ms Sarah's post, that is.

I knew there was a reason behind the liberation of the Falklands, it's where I shall be sending Trevor if he doesn't shut the fcuk up. Now, worship my blue rinse.

May I suggest that you liberate your mind from the gutter, you insufferable cunt.

way to revive a thread!

witness the fractuirng of the left = reason thatcher stayed in so long...

Now now Trevor, just because the thread has a rude name doesn't mean you need to get DOWNRIGHT nasty as opposed to a bladdy joke.

I can't abide potty mouths. To wit, being told to shut the French Connection up. Freedom of speech and all that jazz, a concept which many Tories struggle with. Freedom of speech that is, not jazz.

Oh I'm sorry I was opressing your right to free speech, NOTE TO SELF: call off the jet fighters.

Just as well, really. They'd be utterly defenceless against my patented Hefner sonic cannon.

All this talk of Raygun and Thatcher in this thread, and no one wish long, painful deaths on Henry Kissinger and Augusto Pinochet?

british people are funny.

Henry Kissinger should be tied down, stripped, his entire body nicked with razor marks, and a solution of salt, lime juice and bleach poured over him. And it still wouldn't be enough to avenge the mind-boggling amount of blood on his hands.

nah, we'll just remember him as a shitbag asshole, it's the best we can do