Schoolchildren could be taught "traditional British values". What are core british values?

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4771443.stm
The government is to review whether "core British values" should become a compulsory part of the curriculum for all 11 to 16-year-olds in England.
In response to last year's London bombings, ministers want to adapt the current citizenship classes in an attempt to make society more unified.
But critics say the definition of British values is too vague and education cannot prevent extremism.
A second review, of the teaching of Islam in universities, is also planned.
Freedom and fairness
The six month-long schools review will ask how all children can develop a strong sense of British identity by learning about Britain's culture and traditions, including the contributions from different communities.
Education minister Bill Rammell says both reviews are part of the response to last July's bomb attacks.
He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "There is a need for a debate and the essential values already taught in citizenship classes, like freedom, fairness, civil responsibilities, democracy are there.

Be careful not simply to define the universal values of democracy, liberty and freedom as solely British
Steve Sinnott
Reaction to core values call
"But they are not developed and understood in the way they developed in terms of Britain's cultural and social history."
The UK is multicultural but there needs to be a debate about the things shared by all communities, which bind society together, he added.
In a speech on Monday at South Bank University, Mr Rammell will say the Islam review follows nine months of conversations with Muslim students about their grievances in education.
Speaking on Today, the Labour MEP Claude Moraes, who wrote a report for the EU on integration and citizenship, said it was difficult to say what exactly "core British values" were.
"People say things like fair play and so on but then realise that those things could be attributed to other European countries as well."
Mr Rammell believes education can combat discrimination against Muslims and help tackle the minority of extremists on the fringes.
Higher Education Minister Bill Rammell
Bill Rammell said the reviews were in response to the bombings
But Harris Bokhari, from the Muslim Association of Britain, told the BBC's Five Live it was a "knee-jerk reaction" because teaching British values in schools would not have prevented the London bombings.
"What was the reason why these people actually committed these disgusting acts?
"And unfortunately it was our foreign policy, it was the issue of the illegal war, the illegal occupation of Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, the continuing abuses of the Palestinian people, the illegal occupation of Palestine by the Israeli state."
Alienation
The university review will ask whether religiously-oriented courses rely on narrowly interpreted beliefs which might fuel extremism.
It will also look into the spiritual advice available to students and suggest material that might help explain Islam and what it means to be a Muslim in a multi-faith society.

In a separate development, a government-backed study has suggested many Muslims in England face bleak employment prospects and endured poor standards of housing, which fuelled feelings of alienation.

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=1746&&edition=1&ttl=20060515134828

How would you describe the characteristics that make a person British?

Schoolchildren could be taught "traditional British values" in an attempt to challenge extremism and promote a more cohesive society.

The Government is setting up a review into whether all 11 to 16-year-old children in England should be taught what traditional British values are. The plans stem from the Government's desire to use education to create a united society in the aftermath of the July 7th bombings.

What are your perceptions of a British identity? What do you think is the most important lesson about being British? Which five words best describe "British values"? If you're outside of Britain what does Britishness mean where you live?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Monday, 15 May 2006 11:51 (nineteen years ago)

-not getting pregnant
-just basically staying out of my face

― the confusing situation Enrique currently endures (Enrique), Monday, 15 May 2006 11:57 (nineteen years ago)

"People say things like fair play and so on but then realise that those things could be attributed to other European countries as well."

I think this misses the point. I don't think it's supposed to be about uniquely British values.

The report I heard on the radio talked about democracy, free speech etc.

Doesn't matter if other countries hold them too.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 15 May 2006 11:58 (nineteen years ago)

-the Class System, and your place in it

― I Was Wrong, That Don't Mean You Were Right (kate), Monday, 15 May 2006 11:58 (nineteen years ago)

NOT QUEUE-BARGING (I'm serious here).

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 15 May 2006 11:59 (nineteen years ago)

- binge-drinking

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:00 (nineteen years ago)

as ever it's a profoundly loose use of 'british', but then really i suppose 'english' is also loose.

― the confusing situation Enrique currently endures (Enrique), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:01 (nineteen years ago)

.. at least when they've been been binge-drinking.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:01 (nineteen years ago)

- Voting New Labour

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:03 (nineteen years ago)

traditional British values:

have hearts of gold
help old ladies across the road
be kind to your mum
only ever kill your own

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:04 (nineteen years ago)

NOT QUEUE-BARGING (I'm serious here).

I had to throw a girl out the taxi queue on Friday after she'd pushed in front of us and tried to take our cab, so yeah.

― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:05 (nineteen years ago)

If they get Mark E. Smith in to draw up the curriculum, this could work.

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:06 (nineteen years ago)

- Passive-Aggressiveness

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:06 (nineteen years ago)

- Whilst killing your own, remembering to keep yourself to yourself

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:07 (nineteen years ago)

The university review will ask whether religiously-oriented courses rely on narrowly interpreted beliefs which might fuel extremism.

er right, so they want religious education to become broader based? Hey a really good idea might be to encourage the setting up of monotheistic faith schools, where er....they'll obviously pursue this aim of reducing the propogation of narrowly interpreted beliefs....i think?!?!1

― ambrose (ambrose), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:08 (nineteen years ago)

- Writing to local newspapers hysterically demanding your right to let your dog shit wherever it pleases

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:08 (nineteen years ago)

How you need one England flag on your car if it's for the Euro championships but two if it's the World Cup

― beanz (beanz), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:08 (nineteen years ago)

- Collecting free DVDs from newspapers

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:10 (nineteen years ago)

- Campaigning against construction within a 5 mile radius of your home

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:10 (nineteen years ago)

British values I would *like* to see taught from a school age up:

-consideration for others when using mobile phones in public
-BEING QUIET AND POLITE ON PUBLIC TRANSPORT

kids today, etc.

― I Was Wrong, That Don't Mean You Were Right (kate), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:10 (nineteen years ago)

- Dressing up like a cunt for charity

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:11 (nineteen years ago)

-pantomime cheers and boos for beginners
-dressing up in ladies' clothes and going down the boozer, yeah, it's for charity, innit?

― I Was Wrong, That Don't Mean You Were Right (kate), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:13 (nineteen years ago)

A primer on the proper use of biscuits with tea!

― carson dial (carson dial), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:16 (nineteen years ago)

I could do with that one, Carson. Also: how to prepare tea in a POT.

― I Was Wrong, That Don't Mean You Were Right (kate), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:18 (nineteen years ago)

For Sgs: abbreviating everyday words in cutesy ways, viz choccy biccie, pressie, footie etc.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:21 (nineteen years ago)

The Rights of Man:

Sausage, Egg and Chips (possibly with a fried slice and a cup of tea but only if you aren't an immigrant).

― Ed (dali), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:28 (nineteen years ago)

I'm an immigrant and I would like a cup of tea.

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:31 (nineteen years ago)

Please fill in this form to prove you aren't an undeported, recently released lag and get to the back of the tea queue.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:32 (nineteen years ago)

I see British society as a cheese sandwich...

― Alan Bennett (nostudium), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:35 (nineteen years ago)

-filling in forms (both singly and in triplicate)
-Lying on forms
-dealing with beaurocracy (spelling beaurocracy, as well)
-Lying to beauroaurcracycy

― I Was Wrong, That Don't Mean You Were Right (kate), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:37 (nineteen years ago)

Bureau, Kate. Remember it with 'eau' at the end and you'll never spell it wrong again.

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:40 (nineteen years ago)

traditional British values:

encourage people to emigrate from other countries
treat them like shit when they arrive
make them clean up everybody else's shit
pay them shit
force them to live like shit
wonder why they then react as they do

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:44 (nineteen years ago)

-being unable to spell poncey words and not caring because "they're French, innit?"

― I Was Wrong, That Don't Mean You Were Right (kate), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:45 (nineteen years ago)

"I come to England because they say "the streets are paved with gold". When I come here, I find three things. One, the streets are not paved with gold. Two, the streets are not paved at all. Three, they expect me to pave them"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:46 (nineteen years ago)

# Schoolchildren could be taught "traditional British values". What are core british values? (31 new answers)
# public urination (5 new answers)

― koogs (koogs), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:47 (nineteen years ago)

- hating children
- not getting worked up about stuff, except for petty ridiculous shite

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:49 (nineteen years ago)

Hating things arbitrarily and pretending it's a virtue

― beanz (beanz), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:51 (nineteen years ago)

- buying pirate DVDs from car boot sales/Sunday markets

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:51 (nineteen years ago)

Being completely unable to turn a profit on any business unless bought out by a foreign firm.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:52 (nineteen years ago)

- FEAR OF LOGIC and other continental innovations
- softcore

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:52 (nineteen years ago)

Sending over shit comedians to America.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:52 (nineteen years ago)

Ben Dover movies.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:52 (nineteen years ago)

- shit comedians

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:53 (nineteen years ago)

- defending things for being "adequate"

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:53 (nineteen years ago)

Saying "A pint! That's nearly an armful!" when going to give blood and acting like they're the first person to ever do that.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:54 (nineteen years ago)

The university review will ask whether religiously-oriented courses rely on narrowly interpreted beliefs which might fuel extremism.

I don't get this. What religiously-oriented courses? All Religious Studies and Theology courses teach world religions, and university students doing other degrees don't study religion at all. So what does this mean?

― Cathy (Cathy), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:55 (nineteen years ago)

- molten core of raging fascism under brittle Liberal veneer

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:55 (nineteen years ago)

q: i thought skools taught kids about "citizenship" already ? if "Core British Values" aren't included then what is ?

[In reality this is more New Labour spinned b-shit PR, announcing something that is / [should] already be in place by another existing scheme]

they even have a citizenship website
http://www.dfes.gov.uk/citizenship/index.cfm

from this website:

Citizenship education has been part of primary school education and a compulsory subject in secondary schools since September 2002 and is now the fastest growing GCSE. Pupils learn about a range of issues including democratic practices and how citizens can make themselves effective in public life both locally and nationally.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:57 (nineteen years ago)

Being proud of our liberal democracy but believing the European Convention on Human Rights is a 'terrorists' charter'.

― beanz (beanz), Monday, 15 May 2006 12:59 (nineteen years ago)

-an obsession with weird bits of history
-a love of boffins
-and dogs
-and class

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 15 May 2006 13:04 (nineteen years ago)

- Standing outside major criminal trials shouting "beast!" for 8 hours before going home and smacking the kids upside their heads

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 13:05 (nineteen years ago)

-nervously referring 'the pub' as cover for lack of direction

― the confusing situation Enrique currently endures (Enrique), Monday, 15 May 2006 13:09 (nineteen years ago)

I don't follow?

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 13:10 (nineteen years ago)

Expecting too much from mediocre tennis players.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 15 May 2006 13:24 (nineteen years ago)

Grindie

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 15 May 2006 13:24 (nineteen years ago)

Traditional British Values:
Daily Mail fueled Xenophobia
Casual Racism
Whinging about the weather - BTW it's going to snow every year, don't act all surprised...Oh yes, and in Summer it occasionally gets hot.

― Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Monday, 15 May 2006 13:28 (nineteen years ago)

Back to what Ed was mentioning earlier. Holy shit alert:

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/61271.html

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 15 May 2006 13:45 (nineteen years ago)

Swearing

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 15 May 2006 13:54 (nineteen years ago)

Moving to Dubai/Spain/Australia because there are too many foreigners back home.

Complaining about paying tax.

Whineing generally seems to have been a British pastime for the last 1000 years.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 15 May 2006 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

Whining about people whining obviously.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 15 May 2006 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

Taking self-depracation to comedic extremes: see this entire thread. Britain is a pretty decent place, but why won't any Briton ever say as much?

― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Monday, 15 May 2006 13:59 (nineteen years ago)

Ernesto has the thickest scottish accent you're likely to find on a short hispanic gentleman, nice chap too, he might enjoy jamica,but why there?

― Ed (dali), Monday, 15 May 2006 13:59 (nineteen years ago)

They can't work that one out either. Also, if someone like this (his sis works for Zero Tolerance in Edinburgh FFS) is getting fucked around then what hope for those who don't have about a thousand friends in the media?

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 15 May 2006 14:10 (nineteen years ago)

"I wish either my father or my mother, or indeed both of them, as they were in duty both equally bound to it, had minded what they were about when they begot me..."

― Fluffy Bear (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Monday, 15 May 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

Britain is a pretty decent place

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 15 May 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

There, I said it. and I meant it too. Taking self-depracation to comedic extremes is one of the reasons for it, too.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 15 May 2006 14:15 (nineteen years ago)

I know there are readers in the world, as well as many other good people in it, who are no readers at all, who find find themselves ill at ease, unless they are let into the whole secret from first to last,of every thing which concerns you.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 15 May 2006 14:21 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know how to do italics. Inability to work computers - another British value?

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 15 May 2006 14:22 (nineteen years ago)

what about the stiff upper lip?

― teeny (teeny), Monday, 15 May 2006 14:27 (nineteen years ago)

This dude seems to have some very strong opinions about your traditional values, which, as I understand it, have absolutely nothing to do with twinkling buttocks.

(Dalrymple now writes for a conservative American magazine, and I have to admit that I am fascinated by the man.)

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/ourculture/assets/images/our_culture.jpg

What’s Wrong with Twinkling Buttocks?

A crude culture makes a coarse people, and private refinement cannot long survive public excess. There is a Gresham’s law of culture as well as of money: the bad drives out the good, unless the good is defended.

In no country has the process of vulgarization gone further than in Britain: in this, at least, we lead the world. A nation famed not so long ago for the restraint of its manners is now notorious for the coarseness of its appetites and its unbridled and antisocial attempts to satisfy them. The mass drunkenness seen on weekends in the center of every British town and city, rendering them unendurable to even minimally civilized people, goes hand in hand with the appallingly crude, violent, and shallow relations between the sexes. Britain’s mass bastardy is not a sign of an increase in the authenticity of our human relations but a natural consequence of the unbridled hedonism that leads in short order to chaos and misery, especially among the poor. Take restraint away, and violent discord follows.

― Fluffy Bear (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Monday, 15 May 2006 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

Massed bastardy!!! I want part of that.

― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Monday, 15 May 2006 16:10 (nineteen years ago)

Also, if someone like this (his sis works for Zero Tolerance in Edinburgh FFS) is getting fucked around then what hope for those who don't have about a thousand friends in the media?

Oh, yes, name-dropping and nepotism are traditional British values. I don't like the idea that this guy can be treated differently from everyone other ex-offender threatened with deportation because he hangs about with Irvine Welsh. And wtf does his sister's job have to do with anything? (separate thread, probably, I think)

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 15 May 2006 16:16 (nineteen years ago)

I assume watching "Keeping Up Appearances" gives you an idea of British values?

That is what they are all like except Mick Jagged

― Mr Jones (Mr Jones), Monday, 15 May 2006 16:17 (nineteen years ago)

-scamming the dole

― jinx hijinks (sanskrit), Monday, 15 May 2006 16:22 (nineteen years ago)

The mass drunkenness seen on weekends in the center of every British town and city is also a rather direct result of Local councils policys of encouraging the "night time economy", welcoming developers with proposals for bars pubs and clubs to fill up bottom floors of residential and copmmercial developments, without thinking what the consequence of sanctioned miles of drinking establishments are.

― ambrose (ambrose), Monday, 15 May 2006 16:29 (nineteen years ago)

bureaucracy seconded. (I may have to fill in an immigration form that requires 20 specific kinds of documents to prove my living situation :( )

― sgs (sgs), Monday, 15 May 2006 16:34 (nineteen years ago)

British schools already seem pretty good at teaching people how to use commas badly.

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 15 May 2006 17:05 (nineteen years ago)

The weird thing about this idea, by the way, is that theoretically these "core British values" should be taught by the schools well outside the curriculum itself -- if, for instance, "fair play" is a core British value, that should already be present in the whole system of schooling, to the point where students are educated in it completely apart from the subject they actually study. (Like not-queue-barging, which shouldn't be hard to each small children who need the bathroom.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 15 May 2006 17:11 (nineteen years ago)

Teach small children who need the bathroom. That's how I learned -- J Schwartz got to pee before me and that was fine.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 15 May 2006 17:12 (nineteen years ago)

Traditional British values:

"Deal or No Deal"-Classic or Dud

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 15 May 2006 17:33 (nineteen years ago)

theodore dalrymple (a pseudonymn, i think) has been writing why-oh-why handwringers for the spectator for ooh at least 20 years or more - he was/is an NHS doctor

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Monday, 15 May 2006 17:52 (nineteen years ago)

If we all had the traditional British faith in the idea of restorative justice, we wouldn't be looking at a situation where a *representative example* of a lot of people who've been hauled into this particular bacon wagon is pilloried for having connections to the media. Good on him. You'd be surprised how editors fill their human-interest pages.

Ailsa, hating on me gratuiytously is a great way to look stupid, especially as we normally get on. Please stop.

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 15 May 2006 18:23 (nineteen years ago)

Disagreeing with someone's point of view is not the same as hating on them, Suzy. Trying to win arguments by calling people stupid for not agreeing with you is not making you look clever. Please stop.

And don't give us this "you'd be surprised how editors fill their pages" nonsense, you aren't the only person who knows people who work in journalism.

I'm not pillorying this guy for having connections to the media, btw. I just don't see how it's relevant. I especially don't see how his sister's occupation is relevant. The guy is in the same situation as a lot of other people. It sucks, but he's no more special than anyone else in his situation just because he has a couple of mates to shout to the press about him.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 15 May 2006 18:30 (nineteen years ago)

While trying to avoid getting in the middle of not looking clever war, let me interject that I think Suzy's point is that special treatment exists, and when people with connections get knocked around publicly, it is an indicator of degree; it is a way to guage the severity, like a social thermometer.

How's that for a run-on? Eh?

― Fluffy Bear (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Monday, 15 May 2006 19:04 (nineteen years ago)

Journalists? Acting self-important? No WAY!!!

― Action Time Version (noodle vague), Monday, 15 May 2006 22:30 (nineteen years ago)

cross-dressing is a British value is it not?

― shookout (shookout), Monday, 15 May 2006 22:52 (nineteen years ago)

Pooing in your gran's flange.

― ALLAH FROG (Mingus Dew), Monday, 15 May 2006 22:56 (nineteen years ago)

"-just basically staying out of my face" gets as close as i think one can get

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 15 May 2006 22:57 (nineteen years ago)

People doing stuff ON YOUR TAX MONEY

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 15 May 2006 23:04 (nineteen years ago)

This "learn basic values" thing is going on exactly like this in Aus at the moment too, interestingly (Blair and Howard must have been having tea). And we're asking the same thing - what the hell are these values? Steak on the barby? Beer and utes and cyclone fence gates? 2 kids and a blue heeler dog? Footy on sunday? Eww.

― Trayce (trayce), Monday, 15 May 2006 23:28 (nineteen years ago)

lamb roast trayce

― electric sound of jim (and why not) (electricsound), Monday, 15 May 2006 23:51 (nineteen years ago)

someone should make a diagram that charts the moral of each episode of neighbors, top 5 morals make it into the curriculum. then you could do the same thing with prisoner cell block h (top moral: "the governor's a bitch")

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 15 May 2006 23:58 (nineteen years ago)

Hahah Jim of course, how could I forget %-) Deport me at once!

― Trayce (trayce), Monday, 15 May 2006 23:59 (nineteen years ago)

Thank you Fluffy Bear, that is what I meant! And it would have been obvious apart from the baggage carried from another thread.

― suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 05:11 (nineteen years ago)

Also, if someone like this (his sis works for Zero Tolerance in Edinburgh FFS) is getting fucked around then what hope for those who don't have about a thousand friends in the media?

Me, for instance... :-(

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 06:52 (nineteen years ago)

(sends MC good vibes...)

― suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 07:00 (nineteen years ago)

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