Is "populism" killing popular film criticism?

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Angry thoughts from Dave Kehr on the NY Daily News' firing of their veteran film critic Jami Bernard, and the new role of 'critic' as mindless cheerleader...

During my tenure at the News – seven years that I keep hoping will disappear down an Ambien hole and never disturb my troubled sleep again – Jami and I suffered unbelievable interference from the editorial higher-ups, all of whom seemed to believe that they were vastly more capable of registering the “populist” perspective on a given film (in DN speak, “populist” is a term of art meaning “barely sentient”) than the people they’d somehow (and clearly, mistakenly) hired as experts on the subject... All around the country, experienced critics are being kicked out in favor of glorified interns (look at what is happening to the Village Voice Media chain) who seem excited merely to have been invited to an early screening of “M:I:3” and who can be counted on to file frothingly appreciative, advertiser-friendly copy. Oldsters in the field – which at this point means anyone over 30 – may want to start looking for a new gig.


http://davekehr.com/?p=81


Any critics want to log out and share stories similar to his Van Damme / Disney ones?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 20:36 (nineteen years ago)

This could just as easily be about all entertainment criticism, couldn't it?

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 20:54 (nineteen years ago)

i don't even know what "populism" means in this context. a lot of good critics are populists. pauline kael and lester bangs both were, right? chuck eddy's a populist (and without the chip on his shoulder about it that chuck klosterman carries around). is "populism" here just a synonym for dumb?

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 21:05 (nineteen years ago)

"populist" seems a little misleading here. i'm guessing it was a term used within the daily news? maybe a better phrase would be "lowest common denominator"?

more alarming in that piece was michael wilmington getting shafted at the chicago tribune! he's a pretty good critic!

gear (gear), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 21:26 (nineteen years ago)

Thread titles like this make my ballsack shrivel.

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 23:04 (nineteen years ago)

are thread titles killing ilx fertility?

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 23:14 (nineteen years ago)

Well gypsy, read "populism" as containing the subquestion "populist for whom." And (to basically agree with your point) in these uses it isn't even a matter of popular tastes -- it's a matter of affirming whatever the main thrust of mainstream products is, of happily assenting to whatever's on offer. Can we find a better word for that than "populism?" It means asking the critic to stop trying to offer clever thoughts or have an interesting point of view, because apparently this is elitist and makes people feel bad. I'm not expressing this very well, but the point is that it's not so much about tastes -- it's about how skeptical or inquiring you're going to be about what's offered. (I.e., adopting a stance, rather than simply documenting the intersection of advertising, media, and box office receipts: "Everyone's talking about M:I:3! That Tom Cruise is quite the big star!")

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 23:16 (nineteen years ago)

The notion that a living can be made as a professional film critic is what's killing film criticism.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 23:32 (nineteen years ago)

Perhaps they should form a union and threaten to strike?

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 23:33 (nineteen years ago)

i'm not sure precisely the relationship with this thread, but i'm reminded of something my video editor friend told me was said to him while he was editing a ludacris documentary for MTV. he'd gone through months of shooting, editing, getting rights for songs etc, and come up with a rough cut. it was passed around and during his feedback meeting w/the producers they said "we need more lifestlye porn" i.e. ludacris riding his ATV around on his property, ludacris buying clothes, etc

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 23:38 (nineteen years ago)

and i guffawed and was like "what did you say" and he was like "i didn't say shit"

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 23:39 (nineteen years ago)

He should've turned around and just edited in a bunch of shots from all of Ludacris's previous videos.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 23:41 (nineteen years ago)

it was like 2/3 studio stuff of luda rapping and by the end that ratio was down to like 1/5

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 23:47 (nineteen years ago)

Well, I know when I watch a documentary on Ludacris, what I'm truly interested in is his Hummer, because, like, you can't see those on every street in every major city every single day of the bleeding week, amirite or amirite?

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 23:54 (nineteen years ago)

actually there was one funny part where he goes into a hardware store with his crew and they look around for a minute and he buys a chainsaw.

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 00:03 (nineteen years ago)

but that was in the orig. anyway

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 00:03 (nineteen years ago)

haha.

jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 00:11 (nineteen years ago)

My first reaction was "What do you expect? It's MTV." It only becomes a problem when you start to be able to say the same about most media.

Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 02:10 (nineteen years ago)

didn't dave kehr get fired from some place for giving too many negative reviews?

a.b. (alanbanana), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 02:37 (nineteen years ago)

I think a genuine problem is highlighted, just in as much as what is a critic for. On the whole I think newspapers tend to use them now as cultural journalists, and as such in current media having an opinion is editorialising and hence should follow the house line. The house line is all about selling papers, and that may rely on not pissing off Bruce Willis cos you've got a big interview scheduled.

Like Nabisco I am not sure I would use the word "populism", as i am not sure that is what it is. The deluge of films does not help either, combined with the multiplexisation of distribution (ten films might be released a week, but only three of those - and possibly the three least interesting - will be availible to most of your readers). Star ratings also help make these crude comparison even worse.

Should a review tell me if
a) the reviewer liked it
b) if I'll like it
c) if it is interesting in any way (liking stuff is so over-rated).

Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 06:10 (nineteen years ago)

It's probably more the case that you shouldn't bother looking in newspapers for "criticism" anymore.

Action Tim Vision (noodle vague), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 06:26 (nineteen years ago)

in england the problem is more like the hiring of the sparkling prose stylists who haven't seen so many of the films, and don't seem even to like them.
but there are exceptions (this to all my soldiers in wardour st) and it could be a hell of a lot worse. which voice writers specifically (other than that pitchdork guy) are being referred to upthread?

the confusing situation Enrique currently endures (Enrique), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 07:30 (nineteen years ago)

dave kehr's kind of a populist himself - he adored titanic and forrest gump, yknow.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 07:42 (nineteen years ago)

who's replacing jami? he's kind of casting judgement on the replacement, but, well, film critics don't get tenure.

the confusing situation Enrique currently endures (Enrique), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 07:44 (nineteen years ago)

FWIW, in his blog entry kehr implies that it was the Daily News editors that used the word "populist" as a code word for "write more puff pieces on Tom Cruise." He puts it in scare quotes.

Kehr is a marvelous critic, I hope he's making a living writing for the NYT. He started at the UofChicago paper, then moved to the Reader (where I first read him), then the Tribune, then the D.N., now the NYT. I think he was fired from the D.N. for writing too many negative reviews. I believe he left the Tribune of his own accord. But I'm not certain.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 08:55 (nineteen years ago)

I think there's been a blanding-out of pop culture criticism in general. for instance, "hip consensus" is killing popular music criticism in the "MSM" anyway. perhaps it's even more obvious in popular film criticism because the field is so small and practicioners so few. also, editors at a tabloid newspaper tend to be obsessive about populism aka pandering to the LCD.

many years ago I interviewed for a music critic job at the NYDN. after several preliminary chats that seemed to go well I met with a senior editor who interrupted one of my careful answers to ask a more pertinent question. "How long have you lived in New York?" she said with AUDIBLE contempt. "Nine years now." DEALBREAKER.

m coleman (lovebug starski), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 09:19 (nineteen years ago)

What do you all think of this?

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 10:29 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, i've been thinking on that one. there's a lot of truth there, about the mechanics of academic writing -- director x plus theory y = zzz -- but it's unfair when he says this:

"They seem to have only one idea, and that surprisingly banal—that there is a zeitgeist and films reflect it."

that's not the idea, though: the ideas part is when the 'zeitgeist' -- or 'history', really -- is related to the films.

and he needs to qualify what he means by 'approximately true'. at one point he mentions facts, but the facts are not the truth.

the confusing situation Enrique currently endures (Enrique), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 10:34 (nineteen years ago)

(xpost)

I'm with him until he starts making a distinction between "insights" and "ideas" that's never fully clarified.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 10:35 (nineteen years ago)

the last graph is like YES but who's he attacking here? no-one is living up to his standards, but neither would bazin or sontag, would they? it slightly smacks of a non-writer's blues.

the confusing situation Enrique currently endures (Enrique), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 10:37 (nineteen years ago)

I've always like Bordwell but his is the age old trick of attacking the process rather than leading on it (passim Post-Theory). Actually his new Hollywood book apparently does do some of that but from an academic standpoint.

Facty things we could be told about film that I would quite like to know:
a) Technical: Average shot length, standard deviation of shot length, proportion of close, mid, long range shots. Editing: on or off the beat. Static/moving/shakey cam
b) Aesthetic: To what extend the film sets out its stall and then delivers. Simple mechanistic plot, or open ended. Ideology (on sleeve or implied), diversity of of character stock and so therefore who it is aimed at. And if there is an idea of who it is aimed at, does it hit (happy to read reviews from inside and outside the fold).
And
c) I would like to actually see reviews that take in everything - ie the PR, the ads, "the buzz" (real or otherwise). Certainly for you M:I:3's of this world, baby Cruise/Holmes and the films having similar release dates are important. I think Idiot Bradshaw claimed that Katie Holmes and Michelle Monaghan were lookalikees! Has he seen either of them?

Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 11:18 (nineteen years ago)

Technical: Average shot length, standard deviation of shot length, proportion of close, mid, long range shots. Editing: on or off the beat. Static/moving/shakey cam

those are sort of interesting, but you're immediately in theoretical territory when you start talking about them -- i don't think the viewer actually registers 'mid-shots' most of the time, for example. i hear el bordo is getting into cognitive psychology these days as it goes, but that would seem to go against all this facty stuff.

the confusing situation Enrique currently endures (Enrique), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 11:25 (nineteen years ago)

I don't care for Bordwell's writing style but he's onto something idea-wise with the riff about critical opinions/ideas often being unsupported by evidence/examples. Arts writing can't be science writing, obviously, but ambitious cultural criticism of any stripe can only benefit from an injection of objective rigor. IMO.

m coleman (lovebug starski), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 12:43 (nineteen years ago)

Amateur(ist) right on DK's use of "populism," that's why it's in quotes.

This resonates most from Bordwell: "As I get older, I’m less interested in opinions, whoever holds them, and more interested in ideas and information."

The notion that a living can be made as a professional film critic is what's killing film criticism.

But one used to have a fighting chance, yes? There have always been the Rex Reeds who live way too long, but thinking filmcrix seemed a lot more common in dailies/weeklies even a decade ago. Look at that Rosenbaum global DVD piece on the CinemaScope site -- is there even an alt-weekly that would put that in print anymore? The MSM wants 'reviewers' (that's what they are) to approach their job as a luckly member of the public, any use of theory or probing of aesthetics heartily discouraged. THUMBS UP from Mr Roeper!

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 13:08 (nineteen years ago)

if anything is killing paid film criticism, it's gotta be the internet, right? three of the best places imo to read about film -- cinema scope, rouge, senses of cinema -- are all online and i've never paid for c s's print version. but there's quality work here and there, and whether it's paid or not is probably mostly going to be of concern to film writers.

the really big problem the way i see it is the very lack of opinion -- perhaps of facts and stuff too -- but for example if i go through imdb's 'external reviews' thing, it's amazing how one line on a film gets replicated over and over. maybe this is a function of the wordcount wars -- you're federally mandated to mention the plot and who stars in it, by which time you have not all that much space to get into their use of offscreen space or whatever.

the confusing situation Enrique currently endures (Enrique), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 13:14 (nineteen years ago)

thinking filmcrix seemed a lot more common in dailies/weeklies even a decade ago.

weeklies, maybe. but dailies? with the exception of occasional outliers in a handful of major cities, when have dailies ever had much by way of thinking film critics? i admit to only being exposed to the dailies in the places i've lived, but since they've all been owned by major chains i'm guessing they're not unusual. most daily criticism is plot synopsis/i liked it/i didn't like it, with the very occasional bit of useful cultural or aesthetic context. if anything, daily criticism is probably better than it was several decades ago. i'll take a.o. scott and manohla dargis over vincent canby and janet maslin. (and any of them over bosley crowther.) roger ebert is probably the most influential daily critic of his generation, and his influence has not been bad on the whole.

i'm not arguing with kehr's central complaints (and i really like kehr's writing), just with the idea that there was some golden age of mass-market american criticism.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 13:26 (nineteen years ago)

There are mass market think-pieces in the broadsheets (oh noes, can't call them that no more) over here, but they are on the whole pretty shoddy - the line drawn between all adaptations of video games being rubbish by Kermode being a perfect example in the Observer. But drawing a nice line between interesting aspects of similar films, noting a trend beyond the zeitgeist (and that a made up and/or perceived zeitgeist) and coming up with a genuinely interesting idea is not always easy - though I reckon I could do it better than Kermode given the time.

That said, even worse writing about television...

Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 13:54 (nineteen years ago)

Well, maybe I was spoiled by being raised in the NY/NJ area... I remember the Newark Star-Ledger giving a rave to The Marriage of Maria Braun, and I'm not sure how many sub/urban papers would even acknowledge the existence of a comparable film today.

But I couldn't disagree more about Ebert, a not-dumb man whose uncritical taste can't be taken seriously.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 14:00 (nineteen years ago)

well, critics are not responsible for the exhibition/distribution set-up that has squeezed arthouse cinema out of the theatres; but even then *are* there comparable figures to fassbinder, as close to modern europe and as prolific as he was? in any case, it's worth wondering how far quality of criticism depends on quality of product.

the confusing situation Enrique currently endures (Enrique), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 14:07 (nineteen years ago)

daily criticism is probably better than it was several decades ago. i'll take a.o. scott and manohla dargis over vincent canby and janet maslin.

Agreed. And the two dailies in my area – The Miami Herald and Ft Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel – have literate film critics working in a market that's quite hostile to smaller films.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 14:10 (nineteen years ago)

Wasn't Maria Braun about as popular in its day as Amelie was a few years ago?

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

hard to compare, you have to do it relative to the rest of the market, etc. but i would have thought 'maria b' was a little smaller than 'amelie'.

the confusing situation Enrique currently endures (Enrique), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

Ebert, a not-dumb man whose uncritical taste can't be taken seriously.

his taste, no, but he writes well and i think he engages with movies on a personal level and in a fairly honest way (i.e. i almost never feel like he likes or dislikes something because he's supposed to). which to whatever extent he's been influential is mostly to the good.

and "serious" movies still get serious reviews in the mainstream press (at least, when they manage to get distribution outside the 10 biggest cities). not necessarily any better-written or more useful than the reviews of unserious movies, but it's not like they're ignored. do some mrqe searches for, say, wong kar-wai films, and you'll find reviews from all over.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

hmmm, I can't find any US grosses for Maria Braun, only that it was RWF's biggest US hit. Amelie did $33 million, but I wonder if MOMB came close to that after adjusting for inflation.

Interview with Walter Chaw (new to me) of FilmFreakCentral.net which touches on some of this:

http://mattzollerseitz.blogspot.com/2006/05/keep-up-or-get-out-of-way-interview_16.html


"[Internet critics are] all just mosquitoes dive-bombing Hollywood, man. Unless you’re Ebert, and then you can manipulate the middlebrow as their most-beloved enabler and mouthpiece and then go on to influence the Oscars. The function of film criticism seems now more than ever—-if you’re genuine about what you do-—to just be on the record when the wind changes and we move away again (if we ever do) from all this consumer reportage of bankable product. I’m not concerned about anything other than putting on paper what my reaction is to a film within the context of my personal experience and prejudices: strengths and shortcomings. Pauline Kael was asked once why she didn’t write an autobiography, and she pointed back on all of her reviews and said that she already had. I believe in that. Good film criticism, any good criticism, is 1% savvy, 99% auto-psychoanalysis. I don’t like Kael, by the way. I think she was a brilliant writer, but a mean person, a borderline personality, and a shaky critic. She did have a way of articulating ephemera like performance and fashion, though. But ultimately, I’m not certain her bully tactics and popularization of film criticism did anybody any favors."

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 14:48 (nineteen years ago)

Maybe we need Kael's bully tactics now. There's lots of critics who attempt to emulate Kael's stylistic verve, but not her obnoxiousness: a film critic going on FOX News and telling everyone what a piece of shit The DaVinci Code is – like Kael did with The Sound of Music– and attacking the audience for thinking otherwise.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 14:58 (nineteen years ago)

I think many critics sort of do attack mainstream sensibilities, tho. At least to the extent that the number one movie at the box office on most given weeks rates a rotten tomato 2 out of 3.

Yeah, I realize it's difficult to rate BO stats on something like Braun against something like Amelie, not only because of inflation but also multiplexation. But I was sort of under the impression that it was one of the top-grossing foreign films of its era.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 16:25 (nineteen years ago)

At least to the extent that the number one movie at the box office on most given weeks rates a rotten tomato 2 out of 3.

i.e. what might also be killing popular film criticism is the fact that popular films and those who attend them, um, don't give a shit about film criticism. And why should they, given the fact that they'd probably find their taste being repeatedly excoriated on a weekly basis?

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 16:27 (nineteen years ago)

the discussion brings to mind this Jonathan Rosenbaum piece:

http://www.chicagoreader.com/movies/archives/2000/1100/001117.html

gear (gear), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 17:26 (nineteen years ago)

I feel vaguely guilty just for participating in this thread (pace Nick's comment about his testicles), but to respond to Pete from way upthread:

the age old trick of attacking the process rather than leading on it

I think in this instance that's perhaps what B. is doing, although I'd defend against this charge in general, a charge I do think applies to a great number of folks in film studies. (Viz. the long tradition of "calling for" some theoretical reorientation without demonstration its value.) As an exmaple: his new book on Hollywood isn't the greatest, but he does do pretty much what you ask, that is, compiles a lot of data (quantitative and qualitative) and (to a certain extent) asseses films on the basis of a (by film-studies standards) rigorous notion of plot construction . Although assessment isn't the primary goal of the book, more like description.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 17:58 (nineteen years ago)

Also, although I do like Christgau much of the time, this passage from Bordwell's essay resonated with me:

Most orthodox criticism overdoes opinions, which create the critic’s professional persona. Soon opinions crystallize into tastes, and the persona overshadows the films.

I think this perhaps what Nabisco was complaining about on some Christgau thread (one of many) from this or last year: that the critic's persona, his "taste," frequently overwhelms the descriptive, informative capacity of his criticism.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:00 (nineteen years ago)

Sorry for typos in previous posts. Hopefully they are still intelligible...

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:01 (nineteen years ago)

I almost posted this picture earlier:

http://www.gazellebookservices.co.uk/ImagesMaster/W150/1556524544.jpg

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:08 (nineteen years ago)

Speaking of poor research.... I grudgingly admit that Rosenbaum is one of the better critics working, but that book is a missed opportunity. Rosenbaum could have undertaken a real investigation of patterns of film distribution (in the mainstream and "independent" sectors) over the past decades but instead his book is based on a few central facts and a lot of relatively unquestioned hearsay and conventional wisdom.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:12 (nineteen years ago)

Plus he doesn't seem to ever consider the notion that there may not, in fact, be much of an audience for the Dardennes.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:15 (nineteen years ago)

I mean what's not clear from his book and his many reviews that begin or end with a tirade against the state of film distribution (and the usually nameless--except for Harvey Weinstein--"them" that prevent North Americans from seeing most of world cinema outside of festivals) is the mindset of those who "control" distribution. What are their thoughts? What reasons to they have for funding the films they fund, and not funding the ones they don't? Etc. Rosenbaum reminds me of leftists who (admirably, and understandly) fulminate against Bush et al as being "evil." It's cathartic, but it gets tiresome when repeated ad infinitum without any increase in *understanding* of the mindset and goals etc. of the people we're attacking.

I hope that makes sense.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:16 (nineteen years ago)

I do agree that Movie Wars is a great deal more... cathartic than nearly anything else I've read from Rosenbaum.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:20 (nineteen years ago)

x-x-post

Actually I think Rosenbaum isn't too naïve about that. I think he recognizes that Kiarostami or whoever is not going to have a mass audience. But I think he's been validated in his basic worries by the recent NYT article on the state of foreign-film distribution in the US. The problem is that despite writing about this situation at length he doesn't seem to have brought us any closer to understanding the why's and how's of this phenomenon. I think it would take someone a little less, uh, prejudiced by intellectual habit against capitalism to do the required digging.

Also: the Dardennes are very accessible, and successful, as foreign-language filmmakers go! I can actually see them with a pretty wide audience. Wider than I might expect for, say, Haneke, whose Caché has been doing very well this year.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:21 (nineteen years ago)

I admit I'm still scarred by how awful I thought The Child was.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:22 (nineteen years ago)

(The short version of my last post: I think Rosenbaum is a bit too much of a reflexive leftist to have the understanding of markets that a really good book on foreign-film distribution in the US would require.)

(And an addendum: the $20,000 question here is whether [sorry Bordwell] the "zeitgeist" or some facet thereof has anything to do with the diminished value of foreign films on the market. I think there's probably some generalize cultural backlash or something feeding into this situation, but I'd reserve that explanation for last, after all the grubby details of consolidation and corporatization and the economics of exhibition and striking prints and exchange rates etc. etc. etc. are waded through.)

another x-post

I haven't seen The Child but I liked The Son. Presumably The Fetus will be their next project?

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:27 (nineteen years ago)

Plus he doesn't seem to ever consider the notion that there may not, in fact, be much of an audience for the Dardennes.

Ding ding ding. I haven't read the book, but I get the impression that it operates under the premise that wide swaths of Americans would be clamoring for Kiarostami films if only they knew about them and had access to them. Umm, yeah.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

Re testicles .... I guess I'm not so much thinking about how megahits are impervious to critical input (Walking Tall, Poseidon Adventure and Billy Jack weren't well reviewed either), but how arthouse and foreign fare needs a marketing hook now. In the '70s, there were still international superstar directors who were draws; now for a foreign hit, you need the antics of little boys or cute young women, or pretentious US-financed pulp like Crouching Tiger. I can't imagine something as bleak as Maria Braun being a b.o. success in America today; that audience has evaporated.

re the Dardennes-like stuff [Eric -- awful? are you going to write about this?], the indifference to critical reception extends below the mallplex waterline now. A more-or-less genre movie like Kekexili gets generally fine reviews, is produced by Columbia Pictures Asia, and its US gross in 5 weeks? $100,000, never playing more than ten theaters nationwide.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:33 (nineteen years ago)

Whoops, I posted that without reading your follow-up, Amateurist. In which case I admit I might be completely wrong.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:35 (nineteen years ago)

Well I'm clamoring for Kiarostami films. I was just thinking how I wished I had an opportunity to review his early short films (which are really fun) but they are completely inaccessible. Likewise with about half of his features.

xpost

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:40 (nineteen years ago)

now for a foreign hit, you need the antics of little boys or cute young women

Man, Italian cinema sure had it rough stateside in the days of De Sica and Fellini, huh? ;)

the Dardennes-like stuff [Eric -- awful? are you going to write about this?]

I doubt it. I have nothing really further to add. If I did write a review, it would probably be a fake one a la Outlaw Vern.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:41 (nineteen years ago)

Well, I meant the saccharine, deeply uninteresting antics of little boys or cute young women. (I wouldn't call Giulietta Masina 'cute' in the contemporary sense. And hell, Rossellini or De Sica might have the little boys kill themselves or each other.)

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:45 (nineteen years ago)

If I am knowingly evading the actual issues of this thread, it's not out of being indifferent to the implications of Kehr/Bordwell/Rosenbaum/Morbius. It's out of exhaustion. I sometimes wonder if I'm not so enthusiastic about horror movies (in writing, anyway) because they're the one genre I feel the most kinship with this, how you say, "zeitgeist"?

x-post: yeah, I only used it as an example, though, of how people came to expect certain qualities from foreign films that made shopping for them a case of fulfilling certain quotas on their "foreignness."

... I have no idea what I just wrote there.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:50 (nineteen years ago)

i agree with many of rosenbaum's points, but this isn't an issue that can be blamed on mere distribution factors. it's something more than that, something not limited to film, but to music and literature as well. i'd articulate this better and further, but i have to go to lunch!

gear (gear), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 19:00 (nineteen years ago)

The distribution issue is a snake/tail eating zeitgeist issue. I did some interesting research on the distribution of black film in the UK where the distributors deliver said films to where they think the black audiences are. Not only are they generally off the mark, they completely ignore other very easily accessible data for video/dvd watching of similar films and other black cultural artifacts - and hence miss a huge potential market. The distribution industry you may think works with cabals of focus groups, but most of the time it is half-arsed guesswork which is shocking when you think that ALL THIS INFORMATION IS REALLY EASY TO GET HOLD OF.

The recent assigning arthouse screens to some US multiplexes is clearly a reaction to last year everyone getting it wrong, and money going down. it is a financially led industry which doesn't often look at its books that closely. Thus it is not surprising that sometimes the application of theory or general film discussion is so loose when the quality of the discourse inside the industry is equally poor (even when there are things which are easily quanitfiable).

Amateurist: don't get me wrong, Bordwell is easily one of the most interesting people writing about film at the moment, particularly because he is aware of this malaise and is trying to react personally.

Pete (Pete), Thursday, 18 May 2006 12:41 (nineteen years ago)

i'm sort of trying to stay away from these critic threads, but saying pauline kael was "a mean person" (based on what?) is pretty stupid and calling her "a borderline personality" is just plain shitty and obnoxious. did she run over his dog or something?

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 19 May 2006 06:11 (nineteen years ago)

i don't know what 'borderline personality' means. but i'm still meh on kael.

Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Friday, 19 May 2006 07:44 (nineteen years ago)

um, being an obnoxious shit was a large part of Pauline's schtick, that often manifested as being mean and petty, even if that's part of what you "dug", it's hard to miss
xpost

timmy tannin (pompous), Friday, 19 May 2006 08:39 (nineteen years ago)

But does schtick = personality?

Pete (Pete), Friday, 19 May 2006 09:13 (nineteen years ago)

one year passes...

http://zeroforconduct.com/2008/04/09/fireworks.aspx

banriquit, Sunday, 20 April 2008 20:02 (seventeen years ago)

don't want to agree with this rly.

banriquit, Sunday, 20 April 2008 20:03 (seventeen years ago)

he uses some big words :(

DG, Sunday, 20 April 2008 20:44 (seventeen years ago)

shhh

s1ocki, Sunday, 20 April 2008 20:49 (seventeen years ago)

By evolution or design (I'd vote for the latter), we're much stupider now than we were 40 or 80 years ago, a simple fact that can be proven to any fool by a comparison between 1968 and today, by way of the two eras' political speech rhetoric, song lyrics, movie content, fiction bestsellers, primetime TV programming, magazine syntax, school curricula, so on and so on. If we as a culture couldn't find the interest and patience for, say, A.J. Leibling or H.L. Mencken or George Santayana or Rebecca West or Bertrand Russell or George Orwell — and, if they were writing today, no interest or patience would be expended upon them at all — then paying talented writers a staff wage nowadays makes no practical sense.

this is maybe the trickiest part. god knows how you compare 80 years ago and now -- i'm pretty sure having a massively larger graduate population could be called an index of 'us' being smarter, though obviously {oh fuck it insert you're own zing}.

like, c. 1928, about 1,000 copies of woolf's novels or eliot's collected poems were published. about 400 copies of the criterion were sold each quarter. as for bertrand russell -- i don't think he was so well known outside the tiny and practically exclusively upper-middle-class ranks of the university-educated. ten years later orwell was not doing much better.

so 80 years ago, nah. 40 years ago, though -- i don't know.

banriquit, Sunday, 20 April 2008 20:49 (seventeen years ago)

the 40/80 thing is just... what? where is the proof behind this same stupid assertion bitter ppl in every generation make?

s1ocki, Sunday, 20 April 2008 20:50 (seventeen years ago)

1968 Academy Awards

Best Picture: "Oliver!"
Best Director: Carol Reed ... "Oliver!"
Best Actor: Cliff Robertson ... "Charly"
Best Actress: Barbra Streisand ... "Funny Girl"

s1ocki, Sunday, 20 April 2008 20:52 (seventeen years ago)

Fiction
1."Airport" Arthur Hailey. Doubleday
2."Couples"...John Updike. Knopf
3."The Salzburg Connection"... Helen MacInnes. Harcourt, Brace
& World
4."A Small Town in Germany"...John Le Carre. CowardMcCann
5."Testimony of Two Men" ...Taylor Caldwell. Doubleday
6."Preserve and Protect"...Allen Drury. Doubleday
7."Myra Breckinridge" ...Gore Vidal. Little, Brown
8."Vanished" ...Fletcher Knebel. Doubleday
9."Christy"...Catherine Marshall. McGraw-Hill
10. "The Tower of Babel"...Morris L. West. Morrow

s1ocki, Sunday, 20 April 2008 20:52 (seventeen years ago)

airport would just SAIL over people's heads today

s1ocki, Sunday, 20 April 2008 20:53 (seventeen years ago)

what about 1938, 1948, 1958, & 1978?

deeznuts, Sunday, 20 April 2008 20:53 (seventeen years ago)

4."A Small Town in Germany"...John Le Carre.

reminds me i gots read this.

banriquit, Sunday, 20 April 2008 20:54 (seventeen years ago)

ie hes just cheaply using a sacred cow to defend a dumb point

deeznuts, Sunday, 20 April 2008 20:54 (seventeen years ago)

I'll summarize. Atkinson says "hey, it's no big deal to have gotten the axe; it was my own fault for treating it like a FT gig when it should never have been such," all in an effort to appease himself of the layoff blues.

And then he talks about the American Film Critic "Night of the Long Knives."

So it's both not a big deal and also a carefully organized cultural bloodbath.

Eric H., Sunday, 20 April 2008 20:57 (seventeen years ago)

"Airport" the novel was at least two elementary school grades more literate than the film, to be fair.

Eric H., Sunday, 20 April 2008 20:58 (seventeen years ago)

i'm pretty sure having a massively larger graduate population could be called an index of 'us' being smarter, though obviously {oh fuck it insert you're own zing}

auto-zing

DG, Sunday, 20 April 2008 20:58 (seventeen years ago)

i think it's suckage that even alt papers use syndicated copy and nathan lee got hardsonned -- at the same time i'm like damn, you even had all that stuff. the uk doesn't.

xpost

totally meant it, it was a meta gag

banriquit, Sunday, 20 April 2008 21:01 (seventeen years ago)

i was saying to morbz the other week that if i were a newspaper managing editor having to choose between a f/t film critic and a f/t statehouse reporter, the critic wouldn't stand a chance. it really is kind of a luxury item. (unfortunately of course what's happening is they're firing both.)

tipsy mothra, Sunday, 20 April 2008 21:58 (seventeen years ago)

a steakhouse reporter?

Eric H., Sunday, 20 April 2008 21:59 (seventeen years ago)

i'm a film critic AND a steakhouse reporter! so i'd be fine.

s1ocki, Sunday, 20 April 2008 22:12 (seventeen years ago)

is "populism" killing steak criticism?

banriquit, Sunday, 20 April 2008 22:13 (seventeen years ago)

the privileged glaze

tipsy mothra, Sunday, 20 April 2008 22:23 (seventeen years ago)

moovelle vague

Noodle Vague, Sunday, 20 April 2008 22:25 (seventeen years ago)

steak tartan

Eric H., Sunday, 20 April 2008 22:46 (seventeen years ago)

Bearnaise du Cinema

Noodle Vague, Sunday, 20 April 2008 22:49 (seventeen years ago)


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